Single Justice Procedure

I have received a SJP letter that is basically asking me to plead guilty or not guilty.

The details are;

• I triggered a speed camera  in April.
• received a S172 notice and filled in the online form and paid the Fixed Penalty.
• Because my “licence details were not received by HMCTS” (whoever they are) I’m being asked to admit to a further crime?

Does anyone understand why this has anything to do with me, and who I can get in touch with to get it stopped?

I had to confirm my licence details in order to pay the FPN?

Her His majesty’s courts and tribunal service

Single Justice Procedure..sounds like something from Judge Dredd

Does anyone understand why this has anything to do with me, and who I can get in touch with to get it stopped?

Did you keep a copy of what you sent?

I had to confirm my licence details in order to pay the FPN?

Is this a question or did you supply details of your licence?

If you did supply details then contact everyone that you’ve had contact with, e.g. HMCTS, the “owner” of the online form, the local road safety partnership, etc. and explain that they’ve had everything. I’d expect a land address and phone number on their paperwork somewhere

I had to confirm my licence details in order to pay the FPN?
Is this a question or did you supply details of your licence?

This is a statement. You have to confirm your licence details in order to pay the fine.

I did the crime, I paid the fine. The SJP letter even acknowledges this. It sounds like an IT problem to me?

SJP is a problem that Private Eye or, more correctly, the Paul Foot awards have exposed in the past. I can’t add anything to this other than to think about what timba said and get on it ASAP.

Clerical error. Plead not guilty and state that your license details were provided previously as your defence.

Clerical error. Plead not guilty and state that your license details were provided previously as your defence.

Depends what the crime was?

Speeding – you’d have to pled guilty, and the rest is mitigation

Not filling in the form correctly – depends if you did or not.

As above, read some private eye (look for the Paul Foot awards podcast episode where they give the award to and interview the journalist who’s investigating what an absolute shitshow the SJP is) .  Don’t try and be clever and say not guilty, then explain that actually you are etc etc, the flaw in the system is that it’s a magistrate who rubber stamps a case every 40s or so on average.  They won’t read any of it and will just say guilty but without any leniency for actually pleading guilty. Put the effort into getting out of the system entirely.

Clerical error. Plead not guilty and state that your license details were provided previously as your defence.

You must respond to the SJP within 21 days. If you have time, get the matter quashed because it’s simpler than the full NG experience 🙂

The SJP is also used for TV License “evasion” and from what I’ve read any letters sent by the accused mostly do not get read by the Judge.  Find their phone number pronto and seek their guidance in order to save yourself grief in the long term.

If you have time, get the matter quashed because it’s simpler than the full NG experience 🙂

Please advise how I’m supposed to do this?

I’ve been given two options.

1. Plead Guilty. I’ve already done this.

2. Plead Not Guilty. I can’t because of 1.

Did you reply to the original S172 request within 14 days? If not this may be the issue?

Did you definitely supply the correct details.. is it possible you have mis-typed your license number for example ?

Check your bank account. Has the original payment been refunded? This can happen if details are supplied but incorrect, it then goes to SJPN

you really need to speak to the issuing ticket office to find out what’s going on

This sounds possibly like what happened to me- I got a penalty, pleaded guilty and paid up, but there was an issue with my licence (not my fault, but in fairness something I was aware of and had never got round to fixing- a category problem where the DVLA records and my physical licence were out of shape due to a historic error on their part). So the licence was rejected, and that meant it timed out and went to the next step. Basically it was enough to bump it out of the automatic processes that probably handle 99% of these.

(I ended up in court and it all ended up laughably because I got sent to the wrong waiting room, missed being called, and then they dismissed it in my absence so I ended up getting no fine, no points. But I think equally I might have ended up in deeper shit 🙂 )

Did you post off your licence to them at any stage (seriously!)?

My wife had something special similar a while back – responded and paid the speeding fine, but there was a follow-up whereby they also wanted to physically see the licence by return post, which didn’t happen within the unknown time period.

We didn’t know anything about it until the SJP notice came through and found the speeding fine payment had been refunded. She had to plead guilty again and paid the speeding fine plus additional SJP cost.

If you have time, get the matter quashed because it’s simpler…

There are two parallel penalty systems. If you’re happy that the camera is correct then the FPN system is cheaper for all concerned than the Court system. Your speed is low enough for FPN, higher speeds go straight to Court.

I’d want to stay within the FPN system, which is what I meant by getting the HMCTS matter “quashed”, I should have been clearer. The Court can apply Court costs, bigger fines and points so you risk more. The FPN is “fixed” so you know the risk.

“licence details were not received by HMCTS”

Someone, somewhere has erred. That might be you and it might be the system, but it’s put you into the Court system, which might be more costly, so you want out if it isn’t your error

Please advise how I’m supposed to do this?

By following the advice in my first post and making contact. “If you did supply details then contact everyone that you’ve had contact with, e.g. HMCTS, the “owner” of the online form, the local road safety partnership, etc. and explain that they’ve had everything. I’d expect a land address and phone number on their paperwork somewhere”

I’ve been given two options. 1. Plead Guilty. I’ve already done this. 2. Plead Not Guilty. I can’t because of 1.

You didn’t say this until after I’d posted. It might not be too late to get the Court system quashed if it’s an error by someone else and get back into the FPN system. Make contact.

…than the full NG experience 🙂

That was a comment on another post. I’m not going to suggest what your plea should be, especially as I haven’t seen a single form that relates to your case. NG is the riskiest option and needs advice from a solicitor.

Does anyone understand why this has anything to do with me, and who I can get in touch with to get it stopped?

I had to confirm my licence details in order to pay the FPN?

1. it sounds like you paid the fine and provided your license details?  They’ve definitely not refunded you?  Does your DVLA record show the three points?  You have copies of everything you sent and there are no mistakes?

2. Is this 100% definitely for the same offence?  Sometimes people get confused by two similar cases around about the same time.

3. IF you have paid and got the points then it would obviously be wrong to be taken through the courts.  I would expect that you should not specifically reply pleading G or NG but rather ask the court for a hearing to raise a preliminary issue in bar of prosecution.  That would be easier with a lawyer – do you have insurance that covers that?  If not, you can do it yourself but you need to be clued up, calm and prepared to go back and forth to prove your point!

4. IF you paid the fine but they didn’t process the license for some reason (probably the most common “hiccup” with the system) then you should have had the fine refunded – you could try arguing the preliminary point as per 3; but that invites all sorts of discussion about why it wasn’t processed (was it your typo / bad handwriting etc).  More commonly this is resolved by accepting your guilt, but asking the magistrate (on the single justice form) to reimpose the equivalent of the fixed penalty.  You should refer to the relevant section of the magistrates sentencing guidelines or the high court case law to make sure that they don’t gloss over the point.  I would explicitly suggest that a fine of £71+ victim surcharge with no costs = £100 is the correct approach rather than fining you £100+ surcharge.    Be polite – remember the magistrate has done nothing wrong for this to get to the situation you are in.

Thanks, this is helping me get my head around this.

I paid the fine on 2nd May.

There has been no refund.

“You do not have any penalties and disqualifications.” – https://www.viewdrivingrecord.service.gov.uk/view_driving_licence/view_licence?locale=en#Endorsements

so no endorsements applied.

so no endorsements applied.

That’s a potential warning bell.

The FPN would normally include points, it might be that they cannot be applied because of a problem, e.g. “licence details were not received by HMCTS”

It might be that they’re just slow. I’d still be contacting someone as above

Thanks, this is helping me get my head around this.

I paid the fine on 2nd May.

There has been no refund.

“You do not have any penalties and disqualifications.” – https://www.viewdrivingrecord.service.gov.uk/view_driving_licence/view_licence?locale=en#Endorsements

so no endorsements applied.

Ok so if I was in your shoes I would be highlighting s76 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act.  IF you have complied with the terms of the fixed penalty (and in particular since the issue appears to relate to your driving license I would want to ensure that I had evidence I had met the requirements of s75(8B)).

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/body

How much time and fight you can be bothered with would depend on how certain you are that you did your side of the deal right, but the law on fixed penalties is there to protect people like your from the administrative incompetence of the state.  If you don’t want to argue the point on principle – then you can highlight this section of the sentencing guidelines: https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/overarching-guides/magistrates-court/item/general-guideline-overarching-principles/ :

where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances.

Looking good! thanks.

Thanks,

I have crunched the above info into my plea form, I shall let you know how I get on!

Public Sector admin at it’s best – because I live in Wales they’ve confirmed receipt of my form entirely in Welsh!

Luckily I know enough to get the gist.

Hope it goes well, keep us updated 🙂