you need to chill out too pal, perhaps you can fashion me a more reasoned responce to “I sincerely hope they make you suffer”.

We got sent home after 8 hours, no beds, would have been intresting to see what had happened if they had just sat there.

The medical staff weren’t doing anything to help my family until I arrived and asked in a raised voice why they had been left in a coridor, thats the point?!

djglover and Van Halen have been suspended for 24 hours to cool off for throwing abuse at each other.

Raise it with the hospital then for lords sake!

Slightly OT, but if anyone is reading this and is the position of using maternity services soon I can recommend home birth. We had our last at home and it was great.

btw, IME NHS managers are no worse than private managers, just under greater public scrutiny.

ahhh the old nhs debate…..

I spend an awful lot of time in hospitals, in A+E and various wards with my wife who’s illness varies from longterm debilitating to lifethreateningohmygodpanicA+Etime.

I have seen a top consultant receive a call from his wife mid session with my wife, and run (yes, run) to the carpark to stop his daughter being admitted, as cdiff was so prevalent.

I have seen a junior doctor under unbelievable strain and pressure who still had the decency to ask how I was and if i needed a cup of tea, instead of having his break he got me one.

A nurse who shouted at a senile elderly lady who was left in her own waste for over an hour….. on the floor.

In normal life shouting and screaming to get your own way is not acceptable, however having your family in danger under the care of others is not normal.

A few months back, my wife had cdiff from her previous stay in hospital, her isolation room was several hundred yards from the main doctors area in A+E. Because of this neither the dr on duty or any of the nurses “could” put a simple canular in to get her her vital meds…… for 8 hours… she was left to rot in her room, i got the distinct impression the nurses couldnt be arsed with scrubbing up every time they entered the room, so they left her.

come 3am after much tooing and froing and me sat at home on the phone, i offered to drive in and wheel her to A+E, the nurse on the ward laughed at me, and told me the door was locked, and she wouldnt let me in.

I can honestly say I would have lost it with her and probably strangled her, if she had have said that to my face, but I decided to point out my displeasure to the Dr in charge, they got the canular in within 20minutes.

My wife is alive because we have a free and often excellent NHS, however like any profession/vocation there are good people and bad.

It’s definitely worth complaining through the right channels.

When the little one was born she and her mother ended up staying for a week in the hospital. I ended up changing sterilising fluids for her bottles and other things. The staff were obviously overworked and actually pretty much asked me to complain.

If they don’t have any hard written evidence then they can’t say they need more staff/resources.

Don’t just complain on forums like this, let managers and MPs know.

Djglover needs @ least 48 hrs to chill and care for his family!

Other half has been shaking her head and laughing @ some of the drivel on here!

Asked her to find out if she is any where near the Top 5 Midwife in the UK.

knowing djglover personally, he’s a sound guy, and some of the self-righteous pap spouted on this thread just makes me realise nothing is going to change, because people won’t let it.

As to hoping he suffers in A&E? Well done fella. Feel proud of that one.

knowing djglover personally, he’s a sound guy
have a quiet word then and tell him that he’s coming across as nothing of the sort.

Asked her to find out if she is any where near the Top 5 Midwife in the UK.
Ask David ‘Kid’ Jensen, he’ll know, presumably.

I’ve said it before… bring back national service – make everybody do a year as an auxiliary nurse.

It would do wonders for the healthcare debate.

the NHS exists for the benefit of doctors, not patients.

My dad is coming up to retirement after spending his working life in public health – first as an army doc, then as a GP and finally as a Paediatric Consultant. And let me assure you – there are few jobs more demanding than the latter, not least when there are no PICU beds in the entire **** country. I’d say the public have got good value out of him.

As for the NHS – NuLab are screwing it up royally, not least because of their obsession with [pseudo] “choice”, PFI and handing over great chunks of work to cherry-picking ISTCs.

I have spent a lot of time in hospital recently as my father is getting very frail and has suffered from pneaumonia 3 times in the last 18 months. The staff have always been good apart from the odd couldnt give a damn type and you get them everywhere.

I have found the best way to treat the nursing staff is to go equipped with big boxes of typhoo teabags, big jars of kenco coffee and catering size boxes of Foxs assorted biscuits. Oh and dont forget to smile they will appreciate that.

The last time my dad was in I took in a load of vouchers for a free pedicure and facial at a local spa and casually handed them to the ward sister saying I thought you and the girls could use these.

I am not saying it got my dad any better treatment (that wouldnt be possible they are brilliant staff) but anything to make life better for the staff makes things better for the patients

In the news

go equipped with big boxes of typhoo teabags

Good for you – such gestures are always appreciated. 🙂

In the news

Jimmy, many NuLab chickens are coming home to roost – not least the absurd cuts in acute capacity. Of course, this has always been clear to staff on the ground – but Health Ministers prefer to listen to this kind of rubbish, instead.

Hospitals all over this country are running at 100% capacity – not good.

Having spent 4 days in cardiac ICU with my dad last week, i can only praise the effort and care the nurses and doctors took in trying to save him and the way they treated us during and after his death on Saturday night.

I’m sure A&E departments wouldn’t be so horrible if the staff didn’t have to put up with drunk / abusive / ungrateful folk most weekends. I’m sure 99% are trying their best to give a good service.

My service with bike related injuries has been mixed. 3 days nil by mouth because operations kept being cancelled wasn’t much fun, but i guess i had ‘put myself’ in hospital and i probably lost some weight which didn’t do me any harm.

JulianA wrote

In my experience, paramedics fix people at the scene and drop them off at the hospital, so wouldn’t necessarily know what goes on after that. I’m sure that someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

Ok, you’re wrong. Obviously, it is not in the remit of the paramedic to track the progress of every patient they treat. However, it is common to see the same patients on a regular basis and meet patients with ongoing treatments/therapy who were initially taken to hospital by ambulance. In addition, training /re-training placements exist to ensure paramedics have a very good idea what goes within the whole clinical care system.

EVERYTHING else I have seen and heard (from friends and family, not just in the news) about the NHS is just utterly shiite…..

Not my experience at all and I would imagine my experience is considerably greater than yours.

Shouting at people is quite understandable if they are being ****. I might well have punched the woman doctor who was so rude to me and so non-understanding of my wife’s situation if my wife was going to be discharged that day, but I didn’t as she could well have made life even worse for us.

Yes she could, with the full backing of the law to protect people from idoits like you who appear to think that assaulting people verbally and physically in the course of their job is ever acceptable..

Sorry to hear about your dad, rusty.

I think there must have been a very good reason for your wife and little dudes to be left in the corridor (and not just the hospital being carp).
When my wife had twins she had great service, private room, lots of attention pretty much everything was great. Having twins should get you special privileges!
Mind you this was 6 years ago and in Chester……..YMMV.

In my experience, paramedics fix people at the scene and drop them off at the hospital, so wouldn’t necessarily know what goes on after that. I’m sure that someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

Your wrong in my experience, guess who has the most.

Asked her to find out if she is any where near the Top 5 Midwife in the UK.

I was laughing at that comments all the way to kids school and back this am.

It’s not the people or the budgets that’s wrong, it’s the “command and control” target setting mentality of the last 10 years.
DJGlover’s wife and children were put in the corridor so that some sort of “target ” could be met.
Read “Systems thinking in the public sector” by John Seddon.
Much more digestible than it sounds! It show very clearly why a doubling of the NHS budget has resulted in worse customer satisfaction.

DJGlover’s wife and children were put in the corridor so that some sort of “target ” could be met.

Really, I take it you work at that unit then?

DJLOVER, get real, i told you how and where to complain, youre upset , and so is the wife, but one thing youve failed to say is how the kids are or what was up with them, we`d like to know, being abusive to others trying to help is stupid and pointless, it makes you look like a prat, phone the hospital, and demand a meeting with senior management, dont go on a bike site and vent your spleen, oh and to any medical or ancilary staff in the NHS, you do a great job, to any number counters and pointless management, the local burger bar needs staff to count past 10, because all you seem to be able to do is count and fill in charts and forms.
Hospitals are for patients and families , not damm accountants and form fillers.

Sorry rant over.

My kids were born in London hospitals, Bart’s and University College and the experience was very good.

Well it sounds like an ordeal for all involved. I wonder if there’s a thread on some Dr/nurses forum with the other side of the story?
…..and 120 posts.

There is nothing like the mix of fear, parenthood, NHS beurocracy and perceived wrongdoing to provoke ANGER.
I understand why you would be so pissed off, i would have been angry, don’t think i would have shouted, but that’s because i know the other side of the story, being a Dr.

Trouble is for most of the time if you shout, it is considered as abuse and the next steps are warning then 999.

I sometimes think some Dr’s/nurses lack that bit of understanding and fail to allow that bit of leeway for fear (AKA anger).
Let’s face it there are a few Dr’s/Nurses with shocking communication skills, almost autistic. I work with them..

The medical staff weren’t doing anything to help my family until I arrived and asked in a raised voice why they had been left in a coridor, thats the point?!

But having said that, if this was you’re first interaction with the staff, i can understand why they might not have been too impressed.

I hope all turns out OK.

Oh and COMPLAIN, otherwise it was a totally useless negative experience.

DJGlover’s wife and children were put in the corridor so that some sort of “target ” could be met.

Maybe there just wasn’t a bed available? Flu and cold weather means the NHS is under particular pressure at this time of year.

Woody wrote
[/quote]I don’t know how you could be bothered to waste your time with such a cr@ppy disorganised service, which has somehow managed to firefight their way to treating your wife and 5 kids ?

Oh sorry, I nearly missed your point that YOUR FAMILY actually manage to get to the front of the queue by being an angry massive pain in the @rse, presumably, using your logic, to the detriment of the other less angry minor arse-aches who appreciate the service provided.

I will resist the temptation to call you an ignorant, arrogant, selfish b@st@rd but I think there may be some who would think of you in that way.

LOL thanks for resisiting to call me those things! I’d hate to see you actually give in to the temptation!
Yes I accept what I said did come accross in an arrogant and selfish manner but after all of my experience and dealings with the NHS that is the way I see it. You see it differently working for the NHS, you get the big picture we only get a snapshot. Dont forget when your loved ones are involved emotions and stress levels are running high. Surely you can accept there will be poor service and frayed tempers as a result from time to time?

Oxboy

LOL thanks for resisiting to call me those things!

Have to be very careful these days with dire warnings from ‘the management’ of the possible consequences of posting what you actually think on forums 🙄 😆

Postings do not always read as they are meant to, so apologies if I read more into your post than was actually there and ‘carefully’ launched into one.

I appreciate what you said and agree that it is very different when your own family is involved and am sorry your experiences have left you with a poor impression. Service levels do appear to be shockingly different from region to region.

Have to be very careful these days with dire warnings from ‘the management’ of the possible consequences of posting what you actually think on forums

Hehehehe! Yeah seen that.

alpin – Member

my aunt is one of the top five mid-wives in the UK. her region is the south-east. she deals with every thing mid-wifey that goes on. she said to my GF and not to have our kids in the UK when the time comes.

she says the facilities and care given are not those of a developed country such as briatin.

sorry akira and others that are expecting but it’s kinda how it is. obviously doesn’t mean all UK maternity wards are the same.

That’s how it is, is it?

That’s a slur on my wife and every other midwife who work dam hard as professional midwives.

doesn’t mean all UK maternity wards are the same

If you don’t mean what you say why say it?

My pigeon-hole at work is 6 and a half feet off the floor. Does this mean I am one of the more ‘top’ mental health nurses in the UK? I am not the tallest though and my name comes at the end of the alphabet though so i porobably lose points there…

Seriously though i imagine what alpin means is that his aunt is that she is one of thos senior representatives at strategic health authority level, so in effect the most senior one in her region who shouts at talks to the senior midwives for each of the nhs trusts in the south east.

Which if this is the case, I would be very wary about quoting her about such a contentious issue, alpin. You’ll get her in hot water. I’m sure it would take me a few clcicks on google or the nhs websites to find out her name and her work phone number. I would be in all sorts of bother if i spoke candidly about my job and anyone from my NHS trust read it; I read most of the medical threads on here but very often i refrain from commenting…

Seriously though i imagine what alpin means is that his aunt is that she is one of thos senior representatives at strategic health authority level, so in effect the most senior one in her region who shouts at talks to the senior midwives for each of the nhs trusts in the south east.

Ah! One of the ones who isn’t helping matters then, if she thinks things are that bad and is so high up then why isn’t she helping sort something out.

‘Cos her hands are tied by lots of ‘bright ideas’ from politicians in That London who seem to think that setting targets mean better patient care.

Shouting at people is quite understandable if they are being ****.

I would never call someone who dedicate their lives to working like a slave in crap circumstances for the care and benefit of others a ****.

Surely you can accept there will be poor service and frayed tempers as a result from time to time?

We all have a responsibility to control our tempers. If you can’t, then that constitutes a failure on your part, regardless of the transgressions of others.

If anyone needs a bit of perspective on the NHS issue, just talk to an American. Here, the worry is how good your healthcare will be – there, it’s whether or not you can afford any. The less money you have (or the worse your employer’s policy is, if they have one), the fewer things you are covered for.

On the subject of childbirth – according to my Mrs, in the US you bascially have to have your baby on your back in an operating theatre. Until recently you weren’t even allowed out of your bed during labour. Here, you have a lot more say in how you have your baby.

Intresting to see this thread develop. FWIW I shouldn’t have stooped to the level of others who were throwing childish insults at me and for that I apologise and was a bit pushed for time yesterday to give a more costructive responce before the ban

I have been frank from the outset that shouting at staff is not big or clever and I think polarisandy has the most grounded opinions here from the medical profession. What the ‘NHS’ did, and I use the phrase all encompassing as at that point I had no idea that it was the managements fault, as the medical staff have so kindly pointed out, had, in my view, neglected my 2 children by failing to provide any level of basic care. I think food and clean nappies are pretty basic things if you are being left in a corridor. I don’t think the illness that they have are relevant to this project, but thanks for your input and concern FWIW she fine for now and being booked in for surgery at a different hospital.

To give a bit more context, I didn’t steam in shouting at all and sundry, the shouting in question arose after a heated argument with a registrar and consultant, who also raised her voice to dismiss my views that I could have provided a better basic level of care and observation of my own children from the relative safety and comfort of our own home, as for weather that’s abuse I guess its subjective, I’ve been shouted at as a child, a customer representative and an employee and I’ve never felt that shouting alone was abuse. Perhaps not the most constructive way to deal with a situation, but not abuse none the less.

As for my communication skills AndyP, perhaps they are lacking, but to mirror that, as polarisandy points out and others admit to, the staff are not equipped to deal with these kind of situations and switch off. Don’t get me wrong, this is not a personal grievance with any individual more another symptom of an overall failing.

Some of the view the medical staff who have posted reply’s have reinforced my view that as a whole the NHS can seriously fail patients and because they feel like there’s nothing they can do about it that attitude rubs off directly on patients DrNickRiviera sums it up perfectly I guess: “While i empathise with your situation, what do you expect the doctors to do.” What I expect is for you to communicate to who ever necessary that there are patients in need of basic levels of care. As a patient I do not know who to raise my issues with other than those on the ground, OK, I now know its useless to complaint to Drs and Nurses about the care they are giving you. In most other organisations it would be considered acceptable and probably normal to complain directly to those providing a service?

I won’t be persuing a formal complaint, I haven’t the time or inclination to get caught up in the system again and have no desire to take money from an under funded organisation, the reason for posting this was to see what the opinions and views of the staff and to a lesser extent the general (mountain biking) public actually were rather than jump through hoops to get a simple apology.

Its been interesting, thanks to all the good people in the NHS, my mother and sister included, as I’ve said here before we’ve had a lot of medical care for the twins in the first 3 months of their lives and all of it bar this incident, whilst often upsetting for me, has been first rate.

I would never call someone who dedicate their lives to working like a slave in crap circumstances for the care and benefit of others a ****.

Do slaves get paid?

Djglover,first sorry i called you djlover, previously, now youve settled down,you realise the problems, and are now in a position to do something about it, and do something you must to protect any other person in the same situation, im really glad your wife is doing well, and the twins, from very bitter experience of NHSand social services managent theyre all protecting there arse and pension, they have no idea what an actual patient looks like , only if they park in the staff car park will they aknowledge, the patient exists,management usually only attend 9 to 5, monday to friday, the poor staff on the wards are there for sometimes 12 hour shifts, dealing with all sorts , while management count toilet rolls , or design new signs for there office doors, or get a new folder to walk round with.
Go into any hospital and ask one of these managers, in a suit,with a file, the direction to somewhere, and youll see the look of horror as they realise they have to respond to a member of the public.

“the NHS exists for the benefit of doctors, not patients. “

Oh really? My wife on a ‘normal’ week will work between 50 & 80 hours, probably double what you moaning lot do, and pro rata she probably earns less than you. She has to pay for her own training which costs £1000’s of pounds a year. She has had to apply for a job for next year, but doesnt even know what it will be, and when she is interviewed she will have to accept the job within 48hrs and we could have to move from one end of the country to the other in a matter of weeks, and then to top it all, very few of her patients ever bother to say thank you for making them feel better, or saving their life!

DJglover, I think you should complain and don’t take any money if its offered. But be sure of what you are complaining about. (ie corridor for 8 hours). It was almost certainly beyond the control of the consultant and matron on duty at the time, and is likely to be a result of a peak of labours/births occurring during a shortage of staff. The calculation of keeping staff busy enough versus ‘out-of-control busy’ is a hard one for senoir managers. I know from experience (as a nurse/charge nurse not a manager) that they get concerned if they see nurses pootling about doing very little cos it happens to be rare really quiet day. And sod’s law says that is when they always visit the wards. They need to be kept aware how busy the really busy times are. Any carefuly calculated saving on staff or resources can be completely wiped out by investigating and compensating just one death or disablement of a baby. Managment need to be reminded how close they could be sailing to the wind and complaints like yours serve to remind them of this.