as a motorcycle trail rider i pointed out some time ago that MTB riders would be the ramblers next “target”

Do you really think I’m backing that idea, myself a keen off road cyclist/bike rider :rolleyes:

I didn’t think you were endorsing it, rather I wasn’t really sure what point you were trying to make?

I refuse to believe the English en masse are any different from Scots,

Of course not but there are likely to be 60% more of the selfish, entitled, vocal wombles in London alone than in the whole of Scotland. It’s not that we’re any different it’s just there’s a lot more people in a lot smaller space.

I wasn’t really sure what point you were trying to make?

Not too difficult if you read or even wrote any of this:

Is there some of the story missing or are the pics out of context?

if you exercising a right-of-way

Hmm. If it’s FC land it might be a bit more complex.

Ie adding context not point making.

I get this a lot where I live, the area is well used by horses, dog walkers, walkers, runners, green laners and cyclists. Everybody seems to hate everybody for being in “their” countryside but they all seem to hate cyclists a little bit more.

I’ve given up trying to reason or discuss it with people. I was told last week that I shouldn’t be using a road as I was on a bike. I stopped and politely asked why I should not be using a tarmac, 30mph piece of road on a bike and all he could say is it that “you cyclists all fly along here and scare people walking their dogs”. I asked him if he had every tried riding a full suspension MTB up a fairly steep hill on tarmac and what the top speed he managed was because I struggle to get 18mph up there, never mind 30. All I got is mumble, mumble, going too fast/think you own the road etc.

I was only on the road for 200 yards as it avoids having to ride down a footpath!

And don’t get me started on idiots with earphones in who complain that I didn’t ring my bell or that I startled them.

as a motorcycle trail rider i pointed out some time ago that MTB riders would be the ramblers next “target”

The Rambles (the organisation) aren’t the issue, they realised a while back that promoting rights for trail users like horse riders an cyclists makes it easier to campaign for greater access for their own members. There aren’t “organisations” out to prevent mountain biking generally, there are pockets where the landowners have got their knickers in a twist about building, and individuals who clearly aren’t happy with anyone enjoying the countryside in a way they deem unacceptable. That’s it

I get this a lot where I live, the area is well used by horses, dog walkers, walkers, runners, green laners and cyclists. Everybody seems to hate everybody for being in “their” countryside but they all seem to hate cyclists a little bit more.

Derbyshire County Council went round every shared use path in the county a few weeks ago putting up yellow Correx signs on all the gates saying:

COVID-19

CYCLISTS –
Please reduce speed and Give Way to other users.

This annoyed everyone, partly because the Covid-19 bears no relation to the rest of the message and partly because there were no signs saying anything about “Dog walkers, pick up your shit and bin it properly” or “Walkers – don’t be 12 abreast” or having a go at any other user. Quite what slowing down and giving way has to do with Covid is a mystery and that passive-aggressive singling out of cyclists as some kind of viral problem did nothing to help on an existing multi-use gravel path (old railway line).

The signs gradually got vandalised / removed and DCC got a pile of complaints about the dreadful wording and the overall message. Yet again though, it’s fine to stigmatise cyclists.

The only signs left now are red ones saying
Covid 19 – stay apart <—2m—>

as a motorcycle trail rider i pointed out some time ago that MTB riders would be the ramblers next “target”

Except we are not.

As the best signs say “be nice say hi”

“you cyclists all fly along here and scare people walking their dogs”.

People, not the dogs? Is bicyclophobia a thing?

 It’s not that we’re any different it’s just there’s a lot more people in a lot smaller space.

It’s worth remembering that the Scottish access laws don’t just apply to the Highlands but also to the much busier spots like the Pentland Hills, partly within the City of Edinburgh boundary.

@Cougar

it definitely is with horses, although my experience tells me the riders are far too busy bricking it about the horse losing the plot to care about telling you off for the heinous crime of riding at 20mph on a public road and daring to “appear” in the wrong place for the horse

and individuals who clearly aren’t happy with anyone enjoying the countryside in a way they deem unacceptable

FTFY

Local area by me that is an lovely mix of bridleway and footpaths and private land. I have ran, walked and ridden on it for 24 years (since we moved to the area) it is quiet and the large part that is privately owned I used so much that I had (sensitively) marked out 400, 800 and 1 mile stretches. In the 24 yrs I have used it I was only ever asked to leave once by the farmer and that was because they were using part of it for a shoot that day.

Fast forward to lockdown and it has been discovered by hoards of people who drive to the head of the joining paths, park blocking the pavement and leave dog shit all over and bags in the trees. The farmer has now put signs across the (large) part of the area that is private.

So in essence what he turned a blind eye to to a relatively small and well behaved number of visitors is now lost because… well people have to ruin everything dont they.

it definitely is with horses,

Sure. But that’s the same argument isn’t it? The riders aren’t scared of cyclists, rather they’re concerned that their horses will be spooked. Anyone Strava-ing past a horse rider need to have a word with themselves.

Similarly, being concerned that their dogs might be frightened is arguably pretty reasonable, though they might want to consider a quieter route if they’ve got a particularly timid dog. A grown adult frightened of someone on the road on a bike probably shouldn’t be out unaccompanied.

Anyone Strava-ing past a horse rider need to have a word with themselves.

Well yes.

But, corners.

You go around one, and there’s the horse. Looking decidedly nervy.

Fair. But if you can’t stop in the distance you can see (whatever your preferred mode of transport) then you’re going too fast.

I refuse to believe the English en masse are any different from Scots,

There seems to be a tranche of society that seem to revel in plebdom, possibly related to the bizarre hero worship of the royal family.

It’s worth remembering that the Scottish access laws don’t just apply to the Highlands but also to the much busier spots like the Pentland Hills, partly within the City of Edinburgh boundary.

Of course, but the total population of Scotland is <6m people.

That’s less than London’s 8.5 by a long stretch. The m62 corridor is home to 11 million plus. Scotland has about the same population density as Northumberland, a county with no cities in it.

Glasgow is broadly the same population (0.5mil) as Manchester but less than 25% the density. The whole central belt has at (low ends of the calculations), the same population as greater Manchester.

Even the busy bits of Scotland aren’t busy.

Ramblers are some of the worst for passive-aggressive and entitled behaviour on shared-used trails and bridleways IMHO. Everything is a big drama when cyclists try to pass them.

The only trouble I’ve ever had with ramblers is that they move in packs of 30 odd and despite the best of intentions and being generally quite friendly about it scatter like sheep.

By comparison I was climbing up from derwent reservoir at the weekend, a bunch of about 8 or 10 riders coming down, the front chap shouted to those behind, one of whom decided the appropriate course of action was to now mount the little ridge and ride two abrest so the only way I could get out of their path was now also occupied by an oncoming rider. Utter womble. Rest of the bunch seemed pleasant but oddly it’s the one who rode at me I remember.

Utter womble.

I see that on the TPT the last few weeks. Covid and summer has brought out a lot of people who have no business being on a bike.

King’s Wood is local to me too, I ride through it most evenings during the warmer months.

There’s been a distinct increase in walkers since lockdown, but everyone has been pretty good and no-one’s tried to tell me that I shouldn’t be on a bike. In fact, it’s been pretty much stress free, everyone’s been smiley and polite so I return the favour.

Early on during lockdown, we had some travellers turn up to the Chilham end of King’s Wood and they set themselves up in the car park. Twenty-four hours later and you wouldn’t know they’d been there – the travellers picked up after themselves and left the place tidier than it was when they found it.

Early on during lockdown, we had some travellers turn up to the Chilham end of King’s Wood and they set themselves up in the car park. Twenty-four hours later and you wouldn’t know they’d been there – the travellers picked up after themselves and left the place tidier than it was when they found it.

Careful, you won’t get away with that kind of opinion on here.

Can anything actually happen to you if you ignore the ‘no cycling’ signs as I routinely do?

Round our way (suburban north Leeds) there has been more aggro in the past few months than that can remember, bit still it has been relatively light given most of our riding is footpaths.

I tend to observe the ride late/early rules not just for avoiding aggro but also getting a clear run…as above its been particularly busy and not much fun on busy local trails at peak times.

When I do get aggro, nowadays I tend to not really care

Can anything actually happen to you if you ignore the ‘no cycling’ signs as I routinely do?

Not very likely. I do it all the time in New Forest and on the rare occasion I come across a dog walker they sometimes comment “have you seen the no cycling sign” to which I have variety of replies “no, is it a good one”, “no, have you seen the dogs must be on leads sign”, “no, who do you think has taken it” and so on which always makes them smile – or at least I think they are smiling when they shout back at me. I do however slow down to walking pace when going past as I know I am in the wrong.
I have even cycled past a forest ranger sat in their pickup on forest I am not supposed to cycle on and just got a hello.
Assuming they are just bylaw type things so not even sure who would uphold it and whoever that is they are not going to be walking around in the middle of the forest.

they sometimes comment “have you seen the no cycling sign” to which I have variety of replies

My most recent reply* (back in early Spring) was “Yes, I saw it when I got to the end of the valley** and decided not to pass it, so now I’ve got to ride all the way back down this lovely bluebelly singletrack to make sure I don’t get into trouble”.

*in my head, thought of days later.

**curiously there’s only a ‘no cycling’ sign at one end of the mile long valley, after you’ve wheeled your bike through an ancient church and are just about to go through the rickety gate.

The bobble hat wearing ramblers tend to be organised and effective nationwide. Mtbikers appear to be sod it lets ride or no that’s illegal don’t be naughty. Look at Snowdon and the access. Yes don’t ride it outside the times but would bikes be banned? Impossible to enforce no biking on it. If it was banned and 100 people turn up on a Saturday to ride they could do nothing. Bobble hat power!

that of all the people who’ve ever challenged me riding a FP. none has ever been the landowner.

I think the only time anyone seriously challenged me when I was riding was on a path that runs through Monkton Park, in Chippenham. This bloke and his lad were walking in front of me and when I passed he to get off my bike, there was no cycling there. I pointed out that I was a Sustrans ranger, and that I had every right to ride along it, at which point he got very aggressive, which must have looked good to his teenage sone, and said he worked for the council, and he’d have me arrested! He actually took a swing at me, but missed, so I just rode off, leaving him to froth impotently at my back.
Thing is, the path was part of Sustrans Route 304, and when the council looked into removing the no cycling bylaw and the signs, they discovered that there had never been a bylaw, and the no cycling signs were themselves illegal! I did wonder what that bloke’s job was with the council, ‘cos he clearly had no idea about the local rights of way.
Probably a cleaner.
I was sat by the side of a path that runs from Castle Combe up the side of the valley towards Long Dean once, with my bike, having a snack, (the path is a bridleway at one end and a footpath at the other; it changes at the parish boundary), and a bunch of ramblers came towards me. It was a warm day, and a few of them looked a little flushed! I nodded and said hello, as did they, then one bloke came up, looked at me, looked at my bike, and said, in a fairly weary tone of voice, “can I borrow your bike?” Which did make me laugh.

I got told off by a woman the other week for “not giving her right of way” – she was walking along the clearly marked cycle path that runs through the middle of our town. She was even less keen when I pointed this out to her and that I had moved over as far as I possibly could.

There’s just no point arguing with these people

I, very childishly, told her to **** right off, which i’m sure didn’t help, but why do I always have to be polite?

I, very childishly, told her to **** right off, which i’m sure didn’t help, but why do I always have to be polite?

You don’t 😉
I always start off polite, but if they push the point, and are dicks about it I find a quick **** off and then cycling away tends to end the argument.

<rant> That’s the problem with this country – people moan about cyclists, then they build a cycle lane, and then they walk down the middle of it. Seriously wtf. It’s like half the population just have this absurd sense of entitlement and are not willing at all to even consider compromise. <rant over>

As someone who is ‘getting on a bit’ I can tell you it was just as bad 50 years ago.

Having a potter on the Monsal trail with family and toddler in a trailer, so only going steady. Lots of cyclists so it shouldn’t be a surprise if more come along after you’ve moved to let some others past. Anyway we came across a family walking five-abreast taking up the whole wide track so said excuse us. To be met with “Bloody hell, you have to walk to one side down here if you don’t want to block cyclists”, to which I exasperatly replied “Yes, yes that’s the general *@#*ing idea”. There are lots of places to walk if you don’t want to encounter cyclists, but to complain about them on one of the best facilities for easy safe family cycling just so you can form a chorus line shows entitlement of the highest order.

Plenty of sour-faced dog walkers and walkers out this morning. I get up extra early to avoid these buggers too, but they seem to be getting up earlier as well to avoid the families etc after about 9-30. It has turned into a bit of an arms race.

I’m hoping for a spell of bad weather to force the majority to **** off back indoors where they will hopefully stay through the winter.

as a motorcycle trail rider i pointed out some time ago that MTB riders would be the ramblers next “target”

Definitely. And they’ll use ebikes as the first stick to hit us with.

none has ever been the landowner. On that basis, I’ve pretty much decided not to engage anymore.

This is excellent advice.

You’ll rarely change anyone’s mind so why bother. A cheery nod and g’day, then ride off.

Definitely. And they’ll use ebikes as the first stick to hit us with

This has already started. There was a piece in The Times about how Simon Cowell had broken (well, hurt) his back by falling off his massively overpowered e-bike.

It was an electric motorbike.

They even put the name of the model in the article and still kept calling it an e-bike. Followed by lots of stats about the increase in sales of e-bikes. Then talk to about how there weren’t no speed restrictions on these killer e-bikes (electricity motorbikes) an how to they could be used without a license (back to e-bikes). Totally exhausting. It wasn’t naive journalism – it was setting the narrative.

Hundreds of comments pointing out the clear mistake being made and no correction.

Interestingly this has recently appeared locally too me.

Next to it is a locked money box for depositing coins.

For nickc

See https://www.ramblers.org.uk/policy/england/rights-of-way/shared-use-routes.aspx

“Our position

The Ramblers’ opposes proposals for cycling to be allowed as a matter of course on footpaths in England. While we will work with other user groups to improve the path network for the benefit of all, we will resist changes which are detrimental to the interests of walkers. Changing the status of a footpath or footway to bridleway or cycle track must be considered on a case-by-case basis, with decisions based on an objective consideration of a range of factors.“

Imho most ramblers would consider sharing their sole access (Ie footpaths) which account for about 75% of all tracks (England and Wales) with cyclists who currently have access to about 25% (Bridleway, restricted byway, byway) of all tracks as detrimental to their interests.

Also

“In the case of conversion of a footway to a cycle track, or of a footpath to a bridleway using a creation agreement, there is no formal order process and the only opportunity for influence is at the consultation stage. While there are opportunities to object to a formal order in the cases of conversion of a footpath to a cycle track, or to a bridleway using a creation order, it is preferable to exercise as much influence as possible at the consultation phase. Where the arguments are convincing, highway authorities may be less likely to make an order since it may be successfully opposed at any subsequent public inquiry. Where an order is made an inspector will expect any objections to be reasonable and within the scope of the relevant legislation. Where objections are considered spurious or vexatious then the objector could be held liable for any costs incurred in an inquiry.“

There seems to be a tranche of society that seem to revel in plebdom, possibly related to the bizarre hero worship of the royal family.

I’ve definitely come across this even with English MTB friends. The idea that you could have open access is dismissed as one step removed from resurrecting Lenin and making him head of state. It’s a cruel trick that the land owners have got ordinary people fighting for their exclusion from the land.

To the point above that Glasgow has a population of 0.5million is bollocks, the greater urban area of Glasgow takes on anything in the UK in terms of sprawl.

The issue with the English system is that it’s a massively unfair postcode lottery. Where I live now has loads of access and trails. Places with loads of countryside have none.

There’s no reason other than vested interests that you couldn’t have open access in England.