Should I get some XT brakes?

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  • Should I get some XT brakes?
  • bwaarp
    Member

    I just bought some Tech Evo V2’s over XT’s.

    After trying both here were my thoughts:

    XTs

    Pro’s:

    * Slightly lighter than V2s (not by much, about 120 grams with 180 rotors on both systems)

    Cons:

    * Mineral Oil depending on how you look at it…. meaning to keep them from boiling they have to have: Icetech rotors (I don’t like the idea of sandwiching aluminium between steel) and finned pads (these cost a FORTUNE).

    * Plasticy lever that rattles when you move the reach in.

    * Lack of spare parts, you break something and you’ll be replacing an entire calliper.

    Hope V2s.

    Pros

    * More powerful, better lever feel, better build quality, more servicable, you can run exotic brake fluid like Castrol SRF in them.

    Cons

    * Heavier

    I went with the Hope V2’s because I get through brake pads, I’d spend a small fortune on XT finned pads that I could spend on Castrol SRF or other bit’s and pieces.

    To finish think about this……

    You’d almost be at XT weight with the V2’s if you dumped the goodridge braided hose and went with standard hoses.

    wrecker
    Member

    I have XTs. I don’t use the finned pads, and get the superstar ones at he same price as everyone else. They haven’t boiled yet and I’m no light weight. They are very good and I’ve had formula the ones and tech M4s.

    geetee1972
    Member

    Mineral Oil depending on how you look at it, meaning to keep them from boiling they have to have: Icetech rotors (I don’t like the idea of sandwiching aluminium between steel) and finned pads (these cost a FORTUNE).

    I always wondered why so few people use mineral oil but to be honest, my XTRs didn’t boil once in Verbier and Chamonix (DH track there is about 12km long and takes 20 minutes) last year and I’m a very heavy guy. I did have finned pads (which are stupidly expensive) but not ice tech rotors.

    bwaarp
    Member

    I have a habit of boiling brakes, so I wont touch them. I’ll try a pair out if I can next time I’m at Fort William or the Alps but I reckon I could easily boil them without the finned pads or icetech rotors as I’ve boiled every other brake system on the planet (Oros, Avids, The Ones, M4’s, a mates Saints…although I suspect there was air in them).

    As I said, if the guy wants to lose weight he should dump the braided hose as that will bring them more or less in line with the XT weight. Perhaps even try a 160mm trials rotor on the back?

    mindmap3
    Member

    I never boiled the mineral oil in my saints (original ones). They were easy to bleed and never needed any form of maintenance in the four years that I used them. They stopped my old Demo 9 no worries, and took a fair few knocks.

    I gave up on Hopes a while ago….I blame the origin mini. I loved my old E4’s, but after that I never really got on with them. Some of the newer ones look clumpy to me. Each to their own, but I love Shimano brakes.

    I currently have Hope V2’s on my Heckler. They are great

    So what’s the problem / requirement? Do you want to loose weight / just want to spend money?

    XTs are mentally good – but why change if you’re happy?

    bwaarp
    Member

    Look clumpy? Mate the new ones (special edition evo’s) are like pieces of jewellery 🙂

    bwaarp
    Member

    So what’s the problem / requirement? Do you want to loose weight / just want to spend money?

    Yeah as I said, he should dump the steel braided hose and go with a 160mm trials rotor on the back. The weight would be quite a bit lower then.

    Premier Icon doug_basqueMTB.com
    Subscriber

    Never boiled the oil on my shimanos. Using them at the moment without finned pads ‘cos everyone’s sold out of finned ones over here. Regularly ride 10km plus DH’s. I’m not heavy and not light but I do use 203mm F&R. The finned pads aren’t that expensive either if you buy them online, or buy the non-finned ones off the web. I find the pads last really well too, I got a couple of months out the last set.

    Premier Icon 2POC
    Subscriber

    bwaarp – you got a bad case of brake drag

    bwaarp – I’m not arguing at all. Just wondering. I’d bet if the op is happy with his current brakes he’s a lot better loosing weight elsewhere.

    bwaarp
    Member

    2POC…. yeah I noticed a problem with my riding style a few weeks back when my rear Oro calliper blew up. I tend to use the back brake instead of modulating speed with both brakes….into all corners.

    Trying to change it but old habbits die hard. I think it’s because I used to have a tendency to wash out the front and faceplant the floor, my brains unconsciously started using the back brake most of the time to save itself from new traumatic insults.

    I’d agree, if he is happy with his brakes he could probably lose weight elsewhere or even the brakes themselves. :mrgreen:

    I’m sure the XT brakes are good, I just don’t buy the Icetech rotors and finned pads. The OP would be happy with either system in the end.

    Premier Icon rhid
    Subscriber

    My pal raves about his set and they feel (bite wise) a lot nicer than my V2’s. I am not unhappy with my V2’s but I am not as happy as them as I am with the ones on my DH bike either hence the idea to change. Weight isn’t really a massive consideration, it would be nice to be a bit lighter but going to toilet pre ride would solve that.

    I just wanted to know if performance wise the XT are roughly on par with the V2’s.

    Not being cheeky (I hope). Your V2’s will chuck you over the bars and rearrange your dentists retirement plan. XT’s will do the same. You’re able to stop on a dime (I’d guess). The grass is greener on the other side bullshit – honestly if you were me – save the cash for something that will actually make a difference in the real world.

    Sorry if that comes across grumpy or owt.

    mr plow
    Member

    Doug: Are you getting good life out of resin or sintered shimano pads?

    bwaarp
    Member

    My pal raves about his set and they feel (bite wise) a lot nicer than my V2’s. I am not unhappy with my V2’s but I am not as happy as them as I am with the ones on my DH bike either hence the idea to change. Weight isn’t really a massive consideration, it would be nice to be a bit lighter but going to toilet pre ride would solve that.

    I just wanted to know if performance wise the XT are roughly on par with the V2’s.

    If they feel like they are getting a bit tired…give em a good bleed. If your up to it change the seals.

    If you send them into Hope they’ll have them like brand new for next to nothing and they will be returned to you pronto.

    But yeah V2’s are more powerful than the XT’s. There are some Dyno results floating around the web….

    butcher
    Member

    What’s this about finned pads. Surely pads are pads…despite little differences?

    bwaarp
    Member

    The finned pads have aluminium heat sinks that reside outside the calliper so that braking heat dissipates into them where it’s then cooled by air flow. Basically they give more surface area for cooling.

    I could make finned pads with a lump of copper, strong adhesive and thermal paste for half the cost and better performance. I could even transfer the ghetto heatsink when I wore the pads.

    You can’t do that with the shimano pads and they cost a fortune so I won’t touch them.

    bigdugsbaws
    Member

    Owned both and XT are lighter, have better feel and power….just dont look as pretty.

    bwaarp
    Member

    I’d hugely disagree with the power and lever feel part…

    craigxxl
    Member

    I replaced my Hope Mono 4’s with XT. Never boiled either brakes but did spend a lot of time freeing off sticky pistons and sorting warped floating discs on the Hopes. The Shimano on the other hand have been faultless and even though everyone raves about the modulation on Hopes I preferred the fell of Shimano. When I needed brakes for another bike I didn’t even consider Hope and bought Saints instead. Shock horror they’ve been faultless too.
    Hope make some pretty components but the new Shimano gives them a run for their money the looks department too.

    Premier Icon PolisherMan
    Subscriber

    Few of my mates use Hope and yeah they look blingy but my SLX p!ss all over them for reliabilty and stopping power…..but they are all fat, middle aged tarts.

    bwaarp
    Member

    How long had you ridden the Hope Mono M4s (those are pretty old brakes). I can guarantee in a couple of years of riding something will go wrong with the Shimanos as well.

    I guess it depends if you consider brakes as disposable items…..this so called bombproof reliability of the Shimanos doesn’t seem to bear out with people complaining about leaking callipers etc.

    See this wonderful thread for one example:

    http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/shimano-xt-m785-leak

    Shit goes wrong, at least with the Hopes you can fix it yourself. Give it a year…once people have owned the shimanos for a while….. people will be banging on about how awesome their new 2013 Avid XO four pot trail brakes are and that their Shimanos were pissing oil everywhere or had sticky pistons.

    Premier Icon rhid
    Subscriber

    I currently have Hope V2’s on my Heckler. They are great but I am very impressed with my pal’s ighter XT brakes which seem to provide a good power a a lighter weight!

    Has anyone owned both and can give a direct comparison? Anyone interested in a set of Tech V2’s?

    bigdugsbaws
    Member

    But yeah V2’s are more powerful than the XT’s. There are some Dyno results floating around the web….

    So you are just basing this on second hand information?

    bwaarp
    Member

    It’s marginally more scientific than saying they “feel” more powerful.

    At least bike mags doing dyno tests is one step up in opinion.

    My evo v2’s feel a lot more powerful than the XT’s. But that could be my brain playing tricks with me (shiny new object syndrome….cognitive bias).

    If you want to troll, I’ll troll one up on you. Shimanos are for simple people, Hope’s are for the intelligent discerning type that doesn’t like to throw away parts needlessly and who know their way round a bike mechanically. So there. 😈

    bigdugsbaws
    Member

    Shimanos are for simple people, Hope’s are for the intelligent discerning type that know’s their way round a bike mechanically

    Thats strange as Hopes are easier to bleed.

    bwaarp
    Member

    I meant in the case that parts break… with the Shimano you often just chuck a calliper/lever when it goes wrong where as with the Hope….well you can buy every single part no matter how small.

    bigdugsbaws
    Member

    If something is reliable you don’t need access to spares. 🙄

    munrobiker
    Member

    Get them.

    And, contrary to popular opinion, I’ve bought spare parts for XT brakes after some crash damage.

    Pros-

    More power
    Much better feel
    Bleeding is just as easy
    Lighter

    Cons-

    May make you wonder why you spent all that money on Hopes.

    bwaarp
    Member

    If something is reliable you don’t need access to spares.

    Judging by all the internet forums being flooded by whinging I’d say they aren’t 2003/4 Marzocchi bombproof.

    As I said, once you’ve got a year and a halfs use out of them then shit will start going wrong and you’ll see more people on here complaining about it. Ya’ll just got shiny object syndrome.

    bwaarp
    Member

    Pros-

    More power

    *cough* bollocks *cough*

    Here are the Bikeradar/Mbuk dyno test ratings at 50nm of lever pressure.

    Shimano XT M785 107
    Hope Tech Evo V2 120

    Apparently the Evo’s are 10-15 percent more powerful than the standard tech lever. If you believe that, that would put the OP’s older model roughly on par with the XT’s.

    bigdugsbaws
    Member

    Poor setup ? unreliability

    munrobiker
    Member

    I’ve bought spare parts for XT brakes after some crash damage

    You missed that bit out bwarrp.
    You’re awfully vocal for someone who spent twice as much money to get an inferior product.

    I’ve owned 3 sets of Hope brakes, all failed. One was brand new, from the factory- pulled the lever, oil exploded out the caliper. They’re badly made, which is why the owners of them bang on about spares so much.

    bwaarp
    Member

    Before I had Oros…. I had C2s, Minis and Mono M4s. My brother used all these plus eventually M6’s when he was racing and my old man once had a set of Moto V2’s.

    We had NONE of these problems…. all we had was great reliability. The C2s were shit in terms of performance though.

    You can find examples of users of Shimano’s failing when they first installed them.

    wrecker
    Member

    Having owned the tech m4s and now XTs the only thing I miss is the easy bleeding. I do miss it though.
    Still at east the shimanos are easier thn the bloody formulas they replaced!
    The hopes are good, amazing support. Just a bit porky for their absolute power. The XTs are stronger than the M4s were but not as “nice” to own.

    bigdugsbaws
    Member

    paarp, the OP asked if anyone had experience of both brakes, you don’t thus your opinion is biased.

    bwaarp
    Member

    In regards to my last post… in fact a set of my old mono M4s are on my mums bike, they haven’t been serviced in three years.

    I’ve had experience using them when swapping bikes with friends on several occasions and one of them had an issue with the banjo leaking. Not poor user servicing but poor quality control.

    skywalker
    Member

    The Hope X2 Race were more powerful than XT’s in the recent STW brake test (and they won overall), so I would think V2’s would be a lot more powerful.

    I currently have Hope V2’s on my Heckler. They are great

    Typically – an hour later we are rowing about your sensible question.

    Save your cash. Spend it elsewhere.

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