I’m about to buy a new (to me) van and my stepson wants my old van. We’ve agreed a price and a date when he will take ownership but here’s the rub, in the past we have had fallings out and they have been pretty acrimonious and he wants to pay for the van in instalments.

We are on good terms at the present but in order to avoid a Judge Rinder scenario, does the Singletrack collective think;

a. I should have a written agreement?

b. Is Mrs. Stavro likely to take the hump?

Yes. Definitely. For the reasons given above and tell him why. Keep it business, not family.

tell him to get an interest free credit card.

Yes, unsure why you are even asking…

Yes, if you have had issues in the past then he shoulf understand why or for simplicity flog it to a stranger

be sure to state no warranty given of implied as I bet he complains when something goes wrong with the old van.

Yes and you should include a retention of title clause (i.e.: until he’s fully paid up it remains your legal property and he’s only hiring it). Don’t sign over the V5 until you’re paid in full either.

Great input guys and I particularly like the retention of title clause, so the contract is a no brainer. Now do you think Mrs. Stavro is going to be cool with this as she usually defends him when things get nasty?

A contract is only worth anything if you intended to sue him if he doesn’t pay. Would you do that ? If yes I’d definitely set one up. If no don’t bother. Personally with the history between yourselves I’d tell him to borrow the money from a bank, that’s what their there for.

Keep the spare keys

A contract is only worth anything if you intended to sue him if he doesn’t pay. Would you do that ? If yes I’d definitely set one up. If no don’t bother.

No you have it back to front, a contract ensures both parties understand what they are agreeing to with the aim that nobody needs to revert to the courts to sort out any dispute because it is clear in black and white.

putting it down in writing and having him sign it avoids misunderstandings AND means if there is a dispute later you can point to it and remind him what he agreed (and possibly his mother!).

doesnt need to be particularly formal.  A simple letter signed by both parties stating:

– payments

– what happens if payment missed

– who responsible for taxing, mot, insurance, etc

– what happens if written off before final payment?

– if you are retaining “title” what happens if he wants to sell it half way into the agreement.

– if you “repossess” it and sell it for more than the outstanding payments what happens?

if he won’t sign that, or goes running to mummy then he is presumably not taking it seriously or planning to screw you over – so he can borrow the money elsewhere.

Thats all pretty reasonable poly and in many circumstances I’d agree completely. But stepchildren can be tricky, and the OP has indicated there’s been trouble before and his wife tends to side with her son. Yes he might be happy to sign a contract because he wants the van. He might very well at this point belive he’ll keep to it’s conditions. But at some point the old resentments he has to his stepfather could rear up. Then he’ll believe his syepfather “owes” him the van and should have just given it to him. If that happens the OP must be prepared to enforce the contract with all the trouble it will cause. A simple you can have the van and pay me x amount for x months or I’ll take it back and a hand shake is all I’d do with a family member. If I felt that wasn’t enough then it would be sorry go and see a bank for the money.

Can you not sell it on the open market?

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me

Given past history it would be cash up from for me.

A contract is no use when it would involve enforcing it against a family member. I f you can’t trust their word then cash or sell elsewhere.

Even if it was the most sorted van given the history I’d sell it on the open market. Guaranteed this will blow up in your face. Anything goes wrong it’ll be your fault. Bet he also doesn’t want to pay market price……

Seconded… Tell him it’s losing coolant or something and sell it to someone else to about falling out

Taxi – there is a higher authority who will adjudicate any dispute – the boys mother!  Even although she may side with him, I think there is less chance of that with something written.  If going verbal do it in front of her, and still discuss all the above points.

havig said that, if the head gasket goes in the first month you’ll be coughing up for it anyway!

You can get a loan with 2.8% interest..  No doubt tax deductible too if he’s self employed

As above, walk away…actually run away.

That situation is never going to end well, even if he keeps up the payments, he is going to look at you for help or stop payment as soon as it has an issue.

+1 sell it on the open market.

You can be sure that if anything goes wrong with it the instalments will stop and it will be your fault!

Too much stress involved – sell it on the open market.

Agree with the “don’t” comments.

Just say it’s going wrong, you would want to pass on a load of trouble, and then sell it to someone else.

Edit: “wouldn’t want to…”, obvs

he wants to pay for the van in instalments.

He should get a loan then.

I feel for the OP here.

For me the contract is the least worst option, assuming her actually wants to help out Step-Son.

There’s not info to suggest Lad is a bad payer, just that they’ve fallen out before.

Call it an agreement, call it a contract whatever is more palatable, it’s unenforceable really – OP isn’t a licensed credit broker or finance co. I suggest ownerships transfers at the 50% mark – that’s how it works with Banks. V5 after all is a record of keeper, not proof of ownership, OP is more liable to keep it in his name.

This could be a great way to re-enforce your relationship. Be honest, acknowledge you’ve fallen out before, explain agreement just there so there’s no misunderstanding, ask if that’s okay – if it’s not then you’d rather not do it. It’s fair – it might sting for a little bit at first for him, but better now than later when it’s a real problem. Shake hands on it.

The alternative is turn him down, that will cause bad feeling, or don’t have an agreement in place and hope neither side does something they think is totally acceptable and fall out over it. One of my mates did a similar thing with his Dad about a Motorbike caused two huge arguments – Mate was a laid-back type, always paid, but would wait until he was going around and pay in cash – that might be the first, or even second week of the month – Dad expected money, in the bank on the first of the month – as a bank would – but didn’t say anything until it was a payment number 6 and it was a huge stress point for him – also, Mate sold the bike after a year, still owed his dad a couple of hundred quid (it was £4k to start I think) Dad expected to be settled when he sold it, Mate wanted to use the money against new bike and carry on as they were – again, two months later huge argument. Get it agreed upfront!

A document laying out responsibilities etc. is a good idea in normal circumstances but given you mention previous issues so I’d say if you want it as a legal document in case of a dispute it’s probably worth very little unless you actually want to use it in court.

It does all sound like more hassle than it’s worth (how much is the van worth anyway? is it something you could afford to write-off in the name of family harmony if it came down to it?). The other suggestions of him taking out a loan/credit card for the purchase makes more sense but would probably also be the catalyst for another falling out by the sounds of it as he’d probably see it as a lack of trust etc.

I wouldn’t draw up a contract because I wouldn’t sell the van under those conditions.

He’s more than welcome to get a finance agreement, from well, a bank!

I’m afraid the OP has been asked a question to which “No” is not an acceptable answer.

Families, Goddam!

What I would do is this:

Because any fault on the van will come back to bite the OP, sell the van, give the money to wife on the basis that SHE should lend it to her son to buy himself a van (if he still wants one), and she should be responsible for collecting the (non-existent) repayments.

It’s called passing on a poisoned chalice.  Yes it costs a bit up front, but not as expensive as any of the other options.

Theres a reason why you don’t sell cars to friends or family…..

You’ve had fallings out before with him, so I’d seriously consider not selling it to him.

Oh and your wife WILL fall out with you whatever you do, so you might as well do whats best for you.

So you want to waste money on solicitors for the contract that  you’ll never enforce (see Wife grief), then lose money on the sale as soon as anything goes wrong with the van and you fall out (again) over it.

As above….”There’s a reason why you don’t sell cars to friends or family….”because it always ends badly for the seller!

What if the van starts playing up while he’s still paying?

If you sell it to him then yes, you should. Informally of course but as others said, mentioning you keeping ownership until the final payment and him being responsible for maintenance.

My parents did something similar when I was about 13 and folded a rear bike wheel. They paid for it and I had to pay them back each week from my paper round money. I was allowed 2 missed (late) payments but until I’d paid in full, they could take it back. I think it was a good idea. Taught me a bit about responsibility and money-management.

Alternatively, tell him it’s a bit of a lemon and you don’t want to lumber him with it.

Just give him the van.

Its a lot lass pain and hassle than all the other alternatives. And by the sound of it will cost you roughly the same financially.

Brownie points from his mum may outweigh any monetary loss.

Sell it for cash to Mrs Stavro and let her deal with it.

I think what you need here is an MoU – Memorandum of Understanding. It is not legally enforceable like a contract, but sets out in writing the shared understanding that two parties.

In any case, get all the things you need to agree on down on paper, discuss it with him and come to a compromise position on any areas of disagreemtn, get him to sign it, a good life lesson in discussion and negotiation if nothing else.

And you have the ultimate “I told you so” weapon if it all goes wrong.

My father sold me a car when I was 16 – in fact he bought it and I paid him back*. We had a written agreement. He threw in some clauses about picking him up from the pub, I went back with one about using his company account at the local garage to buy petrol. We worked it out.

*I should add that we made a great show of my handing him cash every two weeks in front of the rest of the family and signing a receipt – cash that he then quietly handed back to me. Such a spoilt brat.

Does auntie Ling do vans?

The situation has escalated to def con 3, my son has been going to jobs in his workmates Golf which gave up the ghost spectacularly on the way home tonight. As I get my new van on Thursday, my son has now got my old van, so selling privately is no longer an option but we have put in place a written agreement of terms and responsibilities. I’d like to thank everyone for their input, it’s been good to hear your thoughts.

No.

Tell him you’ve sold it to someone else.

Then sell it to someone else.

EDIT oh, you’ve a change of plan, but I’ll leave the advice there for others to follow.

The situation has escalated to def con 3, my son has been going to jobs in his workmates Golf which gave up the ghost spectacularly on the way home tonight. As I get my new van on Thursday, my son has now got my old van, so selling privately is no longer an option but we have put in place a written agreement of terms and responsibilities. I’d like to thank everyone for their input, it’s been good to hear your thoughts.

Good news, hopefully it will be the makings of your relationship.

Get him to set up a standing order so the money comes out on a set day each month.

Then he’d have to cancel it if he didn’t want to pay you, rather than just “forgetting”.

How much are you actually selling the van to him for?