Viewing 36 posts - 1 through 36 (of 36 total)
  • Should a boost rear wheel fit a non boost frame?
  • woody2000
    Full Member

    My mate has bought a shiny new solarismax frame and some new boost wheels to match. The rear wheel when fitted to the cotic is loose in the dropouts, but binds badly when tightened up. The same rear wheel appears to fit (though it doesn’t exactly just drop in) in my 142 frame. So, wrong wheel sent or something else? It appears to measure 148mm to the end of the caps but I’m eyeballing it with a tape measure

    davros
    Free Member

    What are the wheels/hubs? I’m thinking it’s wearing the wrong end caps.

    woody2000
    Full Member

    Dt swiss x1900. I think the endcaps are the same for boost/non boost though, I had the same thought and checked

    woody2000
    Full Member

    One thing to add – they were an XD driver, he got an hg driver from LBS. It says 11S road on it – relevant?

    davros
    Free Member

    You need different end caps for XD, HG and MS. Mystery solved!

    woody2000
    Full Member

    The xd caps don’t fit the hg driver, he got the “right’ ones apparently with the driver. Or at least the drive side cap is different – would he need a matching pair with a change of driver?

    davros
    Free Member

    Oh if it came with the end cap then presumably it’s due to him using a road driver.

    The NDS end cap doesn’t need changing.

    If he still has the XD driver and cap, then refit and check the fit in the frame.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Boost vs nonboost is a bit of a nonissue here, the wheel shouldn’t bind up when tightened so no matter what it’s got to be wrong.

    konanige
    Full Member

    Don’t know the innards of these wheels, but is there a washer missing between wheel and driver? I have had this on a Hope wheel.

    woody2000
    Full Member

    Thanks @davros 👍

    It’s the cassette that touches the frame when it’s all done up, but back it off sufficiently not to bind and the wheel is loose in the frame. There is a spacer behind the cassette (11s xt), it binds with or without it.

    I think it’s the wrong wheel (non boost)

    dc1988
    Full Member

    Stick a pencil or similar through the axle to gauge the width then measure the pencil and you’ll see if it’s 148mm or not

    davros
    Free Member

    The HG freehub bodies must be MTB or road specific for a reason. You don’t need a spacer with an 11 speed cassette on a DT HG body.

    woody2000
    Full Member

    @dc1988 – doh, why didn’t I think of that! So simple (like me) 👍

    woody2000
    Full Member

    Exactly 148mm 🤔

    davros
    Free Member

    https://www.pedalon.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?page=search&SS=DT+Swiss+freehub&submit=Search&PR=-1&TB=A

    He needs a 10/11sp HG body, not an 11sp road one.

    woody2000
    Full Member

    Thanks again @davros 🙂

    nixie
    Full Member

    Unless the 11s road driver is not listed as compatible with that wheel I can’t see any reason it couldn’t be used with a suitable cassette spacer.

    H1ghland3r
    Free Member

    11s road driver body is physically longer than 10/11s MTB driver.  11s MTB cassettes are dished towards the spokes to create space and therefore fit on a ‘standard’ width body, 11s road cassettes are wider than 11s MTB and therefore the 2 aren’t cross compatible.  Combine that with the fact that an 11s road driver shouldn’t be mated with a 148mm spacer for the hub and any number of dimensions could be off which would cause the binding.

    nixie
    Full Member

    Yes I know about the dishing. Is the dtswiss road driver actually longer or does it just have longer splines like a lot of other hub manufacturers do? I’d bet on the latter since the right hand side should be in the same place. The end caps should be the same for 148vs142 as the extra length is in the hub shell. MTB cassettes are cross compatible when used with a suitable spacer. The wider road ones obviously aren’t.

    As the fitted driver was sourced for the wheel I’d assume the part number that was bought is known. Dtswiss publish loads of documents with compatibility for hubs and wheels to check if the two can be used together.

    H1ghland3r
    Free Member

    11s MTB freehub body is DT part no. – HWRABL00S1074S

    11s Road is part no. – HWYABX00S2775S (with a 135mm QR endcap admittedly)

    The thing that makes me think something isn’t right is that you can’t buy an 11s Road freehub body with a boost spacer. Road axles are 142×12. I’m fairly certain that the freehub body’s are a different length.

    woody2000
    Full Member

    Thanks for the info.  All I can say is it all fits together OK, so the freehub (whilst probably the wrong one) mates to the hub body just fine. I think he wandered into the shop and asked if they had a freehub, that’s what they gave him.

    StuF
    Full Member

    Has he got another boost wheel to double check the frame isn’t misaligned?

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    The HG freehub bodies must be MTB or road specific for a reason. You don’t need a spacer with an 11 speed cassette on a DT HG body.

    OK…

    11 speed road HG is a marginally longer interface standard than HG (of old). The length is gained by reducing the depth of the “bed”. The actual freehub is the same physical length and will not alter the width of your hub. It will however require a spacer to work with a 9 10 or mtb 11* speed cassette. Without a spacer the cassettes will be loose, with a spacer when it’s not needed, the lock ring won’t engage.

    A boost wheel shouldn’t fit a non boost frame without some effort to flex the frame, 6mm is a lot. (iirc stanton and possibly a few others do a 145 dropout on their steel frames to accommodate both widths).

    The 6mm width is fully accounted for left of the freehub, the freehub end is in the same place relative to the face of the end cap on non boost, boost and (I think) super boost wheels, there are no spacers etc to move the freehub in or out relative to the hub body. Even adapters** (correctly) space the wheel 6mm from the nds, meaning a redish and leaving the cassette in the same place

    When you say the cassette is binding, do you mean it contacts the frame?

    My guess if it physically goes into your (non boost) frame without forcing it is you have a 142mm wheel but you’ve measured at 148 🤔.
    Try fitting it with no cassette on and see how it looks…

    *some newer ones apparently fit road 11 without a spacer as that’s generally what everyone has made for a few years, I can’t say I’ve ever seen a mtb cassette like this mind but I’ve been on xd for years. (11 speed xt cassettes used to come with a spacer, there should only be one behind your cassette, the one which came with the freehub does the same job for cassettes supplied without).

    **some adapters put 3mm either side so you don’t need to redish, instead you need to reindex and hope your mech has enough range to reach top (sram do not in my experience)

    H1ghland3r
    Free Member

    All I can say is it all fits together OK, so the freehub (whilst probably the wrong one) mates to the hub body just fine

    Yes, it would do, there is no difference in the way the hubs fit together between the road and MTB ones, I’ve easily moved a 240 hub from  135mm QR 11spd road to 142×12 11spd MTB to 142×12 12spd XD over the years.  It’s one of the great things about DT hubs, but I’m pretty certain that some combination of a Boost width hub shell, a Road length freehub and a spacer for who knows what (is it clear whether the spacer is for the 11spd road, 148×12 or something else entirely.?  If it’s the spacer that came with the 11spd road freehub body then it will be spacer for 142×12 and I think that’s why the cassette teeth are fouling the frame.

    woody2000
    Full Member

    I gave him the spacer as I thought that was part of the issue. It made no difference to the fouling (probably made it slightly worse if anything I imagine).  It is the cassette touching the dropout that is causing the binding.

    I’ve suggested he buys the 9/10/11 speed mtb freehub, can’t really see what else it could be now that we’ve whittled the possibilities down.

    Cheers

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    I’ve suggested he buys the 9/10/11 speed mtb freehub, can’t really see what else it could be now that we’ve whittled to possibilities down

    Are the end caps identical one end to another?
    The cassette shouldn’t be touching the frame at all, a mtb freehub will make that worse not better as the cassette sits further outboard on the same overall length of freehub.

    woody2000
    Full Member

    God, ever wish you’d never offered to help 😄

    The end caps are not identical at each end,  the drive side end cap is shorter

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    Assuming we’re not talking 20mm different, try swapping them over. Wouldn’t be the first time they’ve got muddled up…

    woody2000
    Full Member

    Nds end cap is 15mm longer than the ds

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    Ah yeah, that’s not it then!

    Having a bit of a look at the dt page there is no road hg11 driver listed for those wheels (or the 240 mtb/hybrid hub as a point of comparison)

    It seems, on a bit more digging, that the dt hg mtb freehub is physically shorter than the road 11 one, so, like mavic, they’re not interchangeable between hubs.
    The dt Road hubs have 2 different hub bodies to accommodate the road 11 freehub vs road 8/9* (possibly a third to suit road 10 but I don’t know).
    So, the up shot is, (dt) road 11 freehubs only fit road 11 hubs.

    *Road 8/9 being mtb hg.

    woody2000
    Full Member

    Grand, so mtb freehub required then 👍

    nixie
    Full Member

    If he’s looking second hand I have one too sell (and probably a set of faster 36t ratchets). No end cap but sounds like you have that anyway.

    nixie
    Full Member

    Hold on that’s a 370 based hub. The support page gives HWRABM00S9706S as the Shimano freehub that is compatible;https://www.dtswiss.com/en/support/product-support?matnr=W0X1900TEDRSA18806

    mrdestructo
    Full Member

    My first boost wheels came with plastic protectors on the axles. I pulled the front wheel out and it was too narrow to fit in my fork. Discovered that one hub end cap was stuck inside a plastic protector for transporting. Luckily I hadn’t chucked the packaging at that point. So many different sizes and different parts for different brands, it can be confusing.

    woody2000
    Full Member

    Thanks again all.

    Interesting that it fit in my 142 frame though. I had to give it a bit of a wiggle to get it in, but in it went.  It’s a 2016 orange crush, so not exactly a flexy steel thing. Probably just crap Orange manufacturing tolerances!

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    If you’d said orange 5 I’d have been unsurprised, I think I could have fit a 300mm hub between the dropouts of mine before the axle went in.

Viewing 36 posts - 1 through 36 (of 36 total)

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