problem with that idea is that trail bikes are going slacker and slacker at the front which doesn’t necessarily lend its self to snappy & lively handling

what trail bikes are snappy, lively and not hopeless doing a bit of dual slalom/4x fun?

Ones that are too small for you 😀

If you’re going down that route then look at older (less slack) frames.

This seems a bit of a mine field.
4x bikes really aren’t great at the pedally bits due to size, suspension design, weight etc and almost all of them have 1-1/8 head tubes which rules out the possibility of putting a good recent modern fork on there as they’ve all gone tapered.

thepodge – Member

problem with that idea is that trail bikes are going slacker and slacker at the front which doesn’t necessarily lend its self to snappy & lively handling
Slackening 4x bikes a bit for added stability seemed to be a common thing so I’m guessing there’s a happy medium in there somewhere.
67.5 degrees maybe?
I would think alot of the snappy, responsiveness comes from really short chainstays.

This seems a bit of a mine field.
4x bikes really aren’t great at the pedally bits due to size, suspension design, weight etc and almost all of them have 1-1/8 head tubes which rules out the possibility of putting a good recent modern fork on there as they’ve all gone tapered.

Probably not, though I did the second half of a 24 solo at 24/12 on a Blur 4X with light-ish wheels and big fast tyres without any issues. Then again the Blur is maybe on the trail side of things compared to more focussed 4x bikes.

Makes an ace trail bike btw. I don’t 4x so I have no idea how it works for that.

This seems a bit of a mine field.
4x bikes really aren’t great at the pedally bits due to size, suspension design, weight etc and almost all of them have 1-1/8 head tubes which rules out the possibility of putting a good recent modern fork on there as they’ve all gone tapered.

M4X is great on the pedally bits, Good seat angle, good suspension design and is light as ****.
I’m 510 a 400mm seat post is only just long enough if you wanna keep the bottom below the top tube.

Just to add.

Modern 4x bike are a little slacker than the older ones.
(4x track have gotten faster) At least that’s the case with my fs and ht.

[Quote]pastcaring – Member
Just to add.

Modern 4x bike are a little slacker than the older ones.
(4x track have gotten faster) At least that’s the case with my fs and ht.[/quote]

Basically I’m looking for a really fun full suspension bike for having a blast on a 4X track, dual slalom, down hill and trails in general. Something thats involving rather than just soaks up the bumps.

It is however going to have to be a budget build, so frames at £1000 or £2000+ for the pivot M4X are simply too expensive for my budget build.

So I’m going to have to compromise somewhere.
I’ve been trying my best to look for frames that can take a tapered steerer (as that gives me the best fork compatibility and upgrade options plus option for an angle set).

I’m not ruling out trail frames if they are fun (and possible budget options).
I was even looking at the 16.5″ Santa Cruz Nickel frame someone on here is selling and wondering what that would be like.

For playing on a 4X track there’s nothing better than a HT! Do you already have a trail bike? Get a 4X bike and a trail bike…no compromise!

nwill1 – Member

For playing on a 4X track there’s nothing better than a HT! Do you already have a trail bike? Get a 4X bike and a trail bike…no compromise!

No unfortunately I don’t have a trail bike atm. Only have a crappy hardtail atm.
I want to build up a fun full suspension bike (cheap’ish), but don’t want something that handles like a tank and just plows through/over the terrain. Something reponsive, that can take the hits but will jump etc.

NS Soda? That’s what I’m planning on getting when I can afford it. They look ideal. I loved my Scott Voltage but it was a bit short on the seat tube – the Soda looks like a similar sort of bike but a bit bigger.

If you’re short and don’t mind a heavy bike with a long seatpost then the Voltage is worth a look. Only sold mine as I needed the money and the aforementioned size issue.

thanks for keeping this topic alive gaz : )
you’re getting all my thinking done for me

What I did with the Kona Howler (that’s for sale!) was slotted in a 190mm eye to eye shock instead of the stock 200mm Fox Van. That dropped the BB a bit and slackened it too. I then put 120mm forks on it to pull the BB back up a touch and slacken it a bit more. Made it into a great short travel bike for razzing round the woods on. Sounds like that sort of tinkering is what you need to maybe do to get something in budget but handling how you want.

jamiesilo – Member

thanks for keeping this topic alive gaz : )
you’re getting all my thinking done for me

Lol, yeah, I just want to get all the thinking over and done with so I can get on trying to find/buy what I want.

I like the kona howler idea. People have done similar with original trance frames

do you not fancy his howler gaz?

what bothered me with frames like the rook is the weight+strength
i just don’t need it to be strong enough to ride crankworks. i ride a pitch at the moment and it’s probably a bit more bike than i need, tho i appreciate it.

but then i got a charge blender in december; in my eyes the hardtail version of the bike we’re talking about here. not light at all. but you really don’t notice. still climbs better than a full suss. it’s a small frma aimed at dirt jump, poss 4x etc, as well as trail if you like that sort of bike. with a dropper post it rides and climbs just fine and again, is more bike than i need. but i like tha style of it. it only served to convince me more that i want something like a rook.
tho it would be nice if it weighed a bit less…

AND, at risk of repeating ad infinitum, what i really liked the look of were those Ragley full suss bikes that never got past prototype stage.

if only some enlightened designer would catch on and make something like this, tho i think the meta hip-hop is close for me. perhaps now brant R’s got the Codiene out of his system (haha) he’ll be looking for something new to get his teeth into? :0

so 100mm back, 140mm front, and possibly 650b-able please brant et al!
thanks!
jimmer

Transition Bandit 26. 130 out back and can take up to 160 up front, though most folk run theirs with 140 – 150, quite a short fun playable bike.

Cotic considered doing a 100/140 but said it wasn’t worth it, might as well carry round the extra 40 or 50mm

Bandit 26 is fun! Watched a video yesterday that confirmed my suspicion as to why it is so fun, the video showed it repeatedly ‘backing into’ turns, a bit like lift off oversteer in a hot hatch or a supermoto motorbike!

Ive seen some production drawings of a 120 rear 140 front. that with a change of shock and hardware can be run 145 rear 160 front.
If it ever makes it to production it would be my perfect uk/alps bike

Well if today’s trip out on the bike taught me anything, it’s that a basically xc hardtail (giant talon) doesn’t really handle that great in the air when jumping over relatively small jumps on a dual slalom course.
Head angle feels all wrong (though the 740mm bars and 75mm stem help), plus I feel too stretched out even on a medium frame.

Maybe I should just find a small giant trance frame, put a 50mm stem on it, some longer forks on it to slacken it out and put the rest of my parts on that to thrash about on..?

After all that should be relatively fun/nimble and cheap, though not perfect.

yep gaz, that’s what i pretty much decided today, tho i’m not going to do it and time soon, so here you go:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261448343998?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

jamiesilo – Member

yep gaz, that’s what i pretty much decided today, tho i’m not going to do it and time soon, so here you go:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261448343998?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Hmm… I wonder will a medium be small enough to chuck about. My talon’s a medium and it really isn’t a chuckable size tbh.

I had also thought maybe about something like a giant reign frame (a bit slacker than a trance and more fork size options…), or even something like a santa cruz nickel. lol I swear I hate bike frame hunting.

You’re probly right. I’ll get looking for a small for you then 😉

The reign has quite a bit more travel, I wouldn’t expect it to feel too snappy

Pyga Onefourty650? Don’t have one myself, but it tops the list for me, and I think I’ve got similar requirements to you.

Here’s what brought my attention to it:

Linky – Review from BikeRadar

Probably going against popular STW opinion here, but how would a 2012 Lapierre Zesty 314 frame fair at this kind of mixed riding/fun?
It’s supposed to have a lively feel.

I know Lapierre’s usually get refered to as snapierre’s on here.

Looks like this thread may have died, which is a shame cos it was my favourite for some time. I think it deserves a pic of the new & interestingly shaped Morpheus Vimana Slope

its nice but i’d prefer this

The 100mm travel bike is designed specifically for slalom and 4X racing, with a low, 311mm bottom bracket height, 419mm chainstays, and a 68 degree head angle.

You might consider an Intense Tazer VP (coincidentally I’m selling mine 😀 ) – low, 1.5HT, 3.5-4″ travel. 68 degree HA but since it’s a full 1.5″ headtube you can fit an anglest – I ran mine at -1 degree with 125mm forks. Lovely!

@ thepodge – Hell yeah!

Thought Spesh had sacked the SX line off a couple of years ago?
Clearly I don’t got my finger on the pulse 🙂

Wonder if any will make it across the pond?

Thought Spesh had sacked the SX line off last/couple of years ago?

just stopped importing it.

Didn’t know they ever really did import them? Didn’t the p-slope take it’s place for a while?

Anyway…
http://www.freeborn.co.uk/specialized-sx-frame-26-2014

NOM! But I aint paying that for one 😕

yeh. i reckon the spesh sx takes it! why do they keep numbers so limited?
is it purely financial? surely can’t be to keep it somehow special/ desireable? surely folk would buy them?

Rob H, that morpheus thing look wacko, not in a bad way
but those drop outs looks proper wrong. take it they’re not minium?!

I think they keep numbers low because compared to a normal stumpy / evo / enduro they probably sell hardly anything

those drop outs looks proper wrong

You’re telling me! They claim to have a way better than average failure rate on their frames due to only releasing to market a proto frame that lasts a slopestyle season. Which might be marketing bollox.

At the time I got my Rampant only 2 had been ridden to death – both, I believe, by Mike Montgomery; which seems acceptable 🙂

I don’t think any company would see much return on bikes like these as they’re so “off-trend” most people wouldn’t consider them. They also take a bit of effort to get the most from and many folks aren’t into that.