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  • Short travel "Long Travel/AM" frames?
  • Premier Icon IvanDobski
    Free Member

    Right bear with me…

    As far as I remember when the On-One summer season came out it was designed to use 120mm forks but still be slack and capable pointing downhill.

    Since then it seems to have morphed into a cheap 160mm frame because people didn’t understand and wanted to put bigger forks on? Presumably the angles changed to reflect this.

    As I’m in the process of designing a Ti frame I’ve just thought of the idea of doing the short-forked long travel type frame and was wondering if my assumptions are true, namely:

    If a frame running 120mm has the same geo as a frame running 140/150mm I can get a slack, stable frame built with lighter Reba style forks which are putting less stress on the frame?

    Or have I completely misunderstood?

    Premier Icon greeble
    Free Member

    yes you have got things confused a tad.
    the hint is in the name.

    on one 456….
    useable with 4,5 or 6 inches of travel….

    Premier Icon Mary Hinge
    Free Member

    That’ll be a Ti Summer Season then!

    Edit: To my mind, you need to match the geo when the forks are at full compression. That would give you a comparable angle, and that’s when you need your geo to be “right”.

    Premier Icon IvanDobski
    Free Member

    greeble,

    yes, that’s the current version but I seem to remember the old one being designed to be the 6in version of the 456 but using lighter 4in forks with less drastic fork dive?

    Brant went on for ages about how you didn’t need big forks etc etc but everyone ignored him and stuck 160s on regardless – was the frame redesigned to reflect this or is it the same geo as the first edition?

    Premier Icon 5lab
    Free Member

    150mm forks put just 5-10% more force through a frame than 120mm forks. I think the fork ratings are more due to the amount of abuse you’re likely to put through the rear of the frame, and angles, than leverage on the front

    so if you’re doing xxx riding, the beefiness of the frame is the same regardless of the lenght of forks attached

    Premier Icon messiah
    Free Member

    To my mind, you need to match the geo when the forks are at full compression. That would give you a comparable angle, and that’s when you need your geo to be “right”.

    Disagree – when your forks are likely to be at full compression you’ll be hanging on for a white-knuckle-ride… set the geometry for how the bike will be when ridden… but make sure that when at full compression the head angle isn’t so steep as to feel like it’s going to tuck under and throw you over the top (this where slack head angles come in), and that the BB isn’t going to hit the ground! Where the saddle is at this time is unimportant as your ass won’t be on it 😆

    Premier Icon greeble
    Free Member

    the only summer season that has been made is the 456?
    the name behind the 456 is what I explained above.

    Premier Icon vinnyeh
    Free Member

    I think Ivan’s pretty much got it right..

    brant – Member
    The Summer Season was initially conceived on the little drop/step off the edge of the millpond wall, towards the bottom of mmmbop in Ragley Woods, when Benji was trying to sort of hop a Cotic with 160mm forks around a techy corner and the fork was just soaking up all his techy moves. It sort of looked like a trials motorcyclist, sort of pumping the fork to move the wheel.

    Me, Ed, Timk and Benji then went to Mooch afterwards, and over a grilled halloumi sandwich, I decided to make some frames that were 2degs slacker than normal, so you could get the same slackness as a normal 456 frame, but with a lower, shorter fork.

    The summer season wasn’t really “designed”, it was kind of just a modified 456. “Make that, but with 2degs off the head angle”.

    Premier Icon Rickos
    Free Member

    greeble – read what Vinney has put. The Summer Season was a frame in its own right. A super slack one at that.

    Premier Icon IvanDobski
    Free Member

    I know what 456 means, what I don’t know was whether the SS is the same as it’s always been.

    If it is then it’s “intended use” as stated by Brant has gone from being designed specifically for use with short forks but still have slack angles to using pretty much any size forks as per the other 456 variants.

    If it isn’t, and the original was different, then the new frame isn’t as short fork friendly and it’s stated use has been changed – presumably due to how people were actually using/wanted to use the frame.

    If only there was someone who’d actually helped design it who’d help clarify this…

    Premier Icon cruzer
    Free Member

    seems like a sensible idea, bikes seem to be getting slacker now-a-days as the riding styles change.

    i reckon a 120mm hardtail with a 67/68deg head angle on it would be perfect.

    You might want to look at something like the charge blender for inspiration. Yes i know its designed as a 4x bike, but its such a good alrounder. im still gutted that i sold my ti one 🙁

    Premier Icon greeble
    Free Member

    ah gotcha!

    Premier Icon brant
    Full Member

    The Summer Season that is being sold by on-one now, and the 456, are unchanged from my original geometries. Perhaps the frame descriptions got a bit mangled over the years.

    Premier Icon Rickos
    Free Member

    He’s like the shopkeeper in Mr. Ben!

    Premier Icon IvanDobski
    Free Member

    Cheers Brant.

    …gets colouring pens out…

    Premier Icon _tom_
    Free Member

    You might want to look at something like the charge blender for inspiration. Yes i know its designed as a 4x bike, but its such a good alrounder. im still gutted that i sold my ti one

    What forks did you use it with and how did you find it for DH and “freeride”? I was considering replacing my Trailstar with one but was put off after hearing it’s not that stable for DH due to a high bb?

    Premier Icon cruzer
    Free Member

    What forks did you use it with and how did you find it for DH and “freeride”? I was considering replacing my Trailstar with one but was put off after hearing it’s not that stable for DH due to a high bb?

    I ran it with Fox F100s which i felt suited the frame perfectly, however you could quite easily get away with a 120mm fork on there just to relax the head angle a bit more.

    ive taken it down cwm carn DH run, chicksands, UK bike park, and serval others and loved it. I never felt that the bottom bracket was that high thou, but when it corners like its on rails you cant really complain.

    Definately dont think your be disappointed with one if you decide to buy a blender. it might be worth having a check on southerndownhill as theres quite a few topics on there about them, and never heard of anyone say a bad word against them

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