Short course downhill, how short is too short?

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  • Short course downhill, how short is too short?
  • Premier Icon xherbivorex
    Subscriber

    at the ‘secret’ weekend race at farmer john’s place last year, the night time short DH course seemed to be around 30 seconds or so…
    dunno about what other facilities you’d need to provide, but i reckon since it’s so short you need proper timing systems.

    Premier Icon ahwiles
    Subscriber

    I’ve been thinking the same sort of thing, There is a ‘descent line’ at stainburn. it’s about 2annahalf mins to ride, with a perfectly reasonable 15min walk/ride to the top.
    (i’ve timed it)
    (maths time, for an average speed of 30kph, 1kilometer of track represents 2 mins)

    it’s not a Dh track as such, but it’s an awful lot of fun to ride on a big full-bounce bike.

    i think it’s the perfect model for the future of british downhill tracks. Uplift trucks cost a fortune, and need roads.

    did anyone race at chicksands? that was only a 40 second track, was that too short considering the entry fee?

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    i’d say 45s is the shortest. any shorter and you stop getting much differentiation in times…

    Bring back dual slalom! Much more entertaining than DH, and requires relatively little building. Just cut the grass supper short on a moderately steep hill. Stick some poles in, dig in some small berms to get riders riding the same line (and building up the berm in the proces)and get creative with straw bales/pallets for jumps, and let the course develop over the course of the weekend.

    Brownbacks
    Member

    what about entry fee?

    we might try for funding of a timing system (which would reduce entry costs) but we need to understand what people would pay.

    This will be run on our current model so its aiming to be cheap and accessible but we need to cover costs.

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    where are you planning on doing this? I’ve been running some low key ‘timing sessions’ down in devon (we arent allowed to call them races)

    you might want to talk to the racers guild guys at cannock as well.

    for a low key event then radios and sychronised stopwatchs work just fine.

    Premier Icon yoshimi
    Subscriber

    minimum 45 secs course
    push up 15-20mins
    price £25-30 max depending on how may runs you get and quality of facilities

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    i wouldn’t pay more than £15 for a race without uplift….

    Bream
    Member

    Depends on what you want to do, over here in Sweden there is a group of guys in Gothenberg who organise push up DH race days and they are a great success. Timing is done via walkie talkies and a single stop watch and they normally have a BBQ at halfway for a break. Course lengths are 30-50 seconds and they normally change something from time to time, even if it is something small. It is free to race but normally a few quid is stuck in a pot to cover the cost of effort etc.

    All in all a fun day out as long as everyone doesn’t take it too seriously, last race there was less than 1 second covering 5 of the top 10 riders, of course they all realised that in reality they all could have beat each other but stop watches via walkie talkies is never accuate. But there were smiles all round, fun day out.

    To do anything more serious is going to cost you or the riders money unless you have the facilities already to hand. I am lucky because the bike park I help run already has amazingly great services in place, professional timing gear from ski racing and a quad chair lift 😉 Yet I still drive up to Gothenberg to race the push ups, all about community spirit 8)

    Brownbacks
    Member

    If we do it I want it to be properly done

    electronic timing, portaloos, catering (even if its just coffee and cake), MRT in attendance (lots of them!) we already have the website etc

    the course is a 10 minute walk from the car park, event village could be at the bottom of the course

    The number of courses available is an issue as it would be planned aa a series to help spread capex

    time to get our resident former downhiller to do a timed run

    Brownbacks
    Member

    also insured!

    Premier Icon Ed-O
    Subscriber

    1 minute course (which will be 30secs for the really fast).

    Short push up means you get more runs in your practice day and more time on the bike, which is nice. This is why Wharncliffe and Gisburn Forest are so good. You just don’t need uplift and you get more chance to work out your lines when it’s a short run.

    For it to have appeal to big bikes I think you’d need to look at an alternative to the red descent, or add new bits to it. Shame that when you finish at the Quarry, you are still up a hill!

    Under £20

    Premier Icon Tracey
    Subscriber

    Me and the girls did the Chicksands one last month, the best times were around 30 secs. Enjoyed the full experience and would def do it again.

    There were toilets, food, a couple of trade stands and electronic timing.

    A well organised day out

    Tracey

    Brownbacks
    Member

    I’m thinking the black descent from the top of Fairview, its proper DH but its short it may also be difficult to “make safe” for racing

    The red is OK and could be a second route

    the question is whether it can be viably done without it taking up too much time and effort

    Brownbacks
    Member

    as the question really….

    how long does the course need to be length/ time?

    No uplift, so how much of a push up is acceptable?

    If its a series do we need to change the course a lot?

    We will need to pay for proper (electronic) timing, toilets, first aid etc so what is an acceptable entry fee?

    only musing at the moment but you never know……..

    Premier Icon steveh
    Subscriber

    30 seconds is about the minimum i reckon. Push up is related to drop time, chicksands was under 5 min for a 30 sec course, the wentwood one was about 1m-1m30s course with 15-20 min walk. A 30 sec course with 20 minute push wouldn’t be great!

    Proper timing is essential for short course stuff with lots of people as the gaps between people will be very small. However i do a few races a year at a local forest where timing is 2 stop watches and some radios, not the most accurate but with 30-40 entries it doesn’t matter so much.

    First aid required as well but you don’t need to pay for extreme medics of whoever just people with qualifications.

    If you are doing a series then you need to make some minor changes to the course to keep people interested. just sections rather than a whole course though.

    Entry fees wise the very local one with manual timing is £10 with a bbq. Chicksands was £20 each i think. £25 would be my max and for that it’d need to be a good venue. Talk to Naked racing (Chris Roberts) about timing costs etc as he does it for various people. If you need a number drop me an email.

    frepster
    Member

    I did the Minidh races earlier this year and they were £20 each, no uplift and the run was sub 60 seconds, you did get two timed runs as well as a few hours of practice, lots of runs too thanks to no uplift line ups. I dont think this represented good value really but the event was slickly ran and lots of fun, I think the main reason i did and it was so popular was that it happened it February & March and there isnt a lot of DH racing going on then and i was jonesing for some competition.

    I think if you are planning it for lee quarry, with the rocky terrain there it would lend itself to a winter race series, although it would be a pretty cold exposed push up.

    I also think a series would need to use different tracks or heavily different variants of the same one. Cannock Racers guild race on a different track each time which keeps it interesting.

    Premier Icon rockthreegozy
    Subscriber

    SDA this weekend was a 25-30minute push-up, with the fastest time being a 2.26 downhill. £30 entry.

    Robofest in Novemeber was 20 minutes up, 2.20ish downhill.

    Both fun events, made 100% better by the weather!

    GW
    Member

    were you racing this weekend Rock3?
    Ace, wasn’t it?
    how did you get on?

    Jambo – £15 couldn’t possibly pay for timing, marshals and first aid, nevermind insurance, numberboards, toilets, land rental and all the other stuff that goes into running a DH race. also with short course racing, accurate timing is a must.

    Premier Icon rockthreegozy
    Subscriber

    Aye, it was good. First ever SDA and on a new bike too!

    Got 58/84 (senior) so that was ok, time of 3.01

    Didn’t realise you were the guy doing the run with the timings down, or would’ve said hello at the weekend (met you at the infamous Glencoe run-in!)

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    they normally have a BBQ at halfway for a break

    And they’re still turning in times of 30-50 seconds?

    Oh. I get it 😳

    GW
    Member

    Aye, I was working… it’s a hard life sometimes 😆

    Say ‘ello next time. (you entered Ft Bill?)

    Premier Icon rockthreegozy
    Subscriber

    Nope, selective season! Glencoe and Killin hopefully!

    “Timing is done via walkie talkies and a single stop watch and they normally have a BBQ at halfway for a break.”

    Is the cooking and eating time included 😉

Viewing 24 posts - 1 through 24 (of 24 total)

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