Yes, we’re at the cutting edge stage – it’s still expensive and likely will be for a while yet.

So that’s exactly what you mean…? ‘If I/my friends can’t manage then no one can’.

No. What I am saying is that if the riders I have in mind can’t ride it on a 1X10 and you can you are ridiculously fit.

Fair enough, would be great to ride with someone as good as you sometime, my triathlete, top 5 enduro and mountain bike guide friends could learn a lot! But seriously though, can we ride in the mountains as I don’t think we will enjoy the Norfolk Broads 🙂

Di2 for MTBs has lots of potential

The shifting will no doubt be amazing. Doing away with front shifting altogether has already proven itself though. Sometimes less is more. I’d much rather Shimano changed tack and worked on wide range single ring stuff instead… but don’t see it happening.

So we are all agreed then, Shimano to release wide range 1×11 Di2, XTR for a bit then all that tech to trickle/waterfall down to SLX/Zee level and we’d all buy it tomorrow?

Market research in action kids!

Here’s my next car…..

So we are all agreed then, Shimano to release wide range 1×11 Di2, XTR for a bit then all that tech to trickle/waterfall down to SLX/Zee level and we’d all buy it tomorrow?

Seems perfectly reasonable, do you want to email Shimano their new 3 year strategy or shall I?

All I really want is for Shimano to copy XX1, just like they copied everything good about 9-speed SRAM when they made their 10-speed groupsets. It’s a recurring failing of the industry, that SRAM has the best ideas and implements them badly, while Shimano has stupid ideas but far higher quality.

I’g go along with that Northwind!

(Plus Shimano make it slightly more affordable at Merlic/ CRC prices- SRAM don’t seem to get quite the same hefty discounts from the original prices)

It’s not that long ago that everybody was having a fit of the vapours about electronic engine management systems in cars. What happens if the electrics pack up miles from home ? etc, all the comments we have heard about Di2. Yes of course somebody will have been caught out but no more than with carburettors just as I am sure not that many people will have problems with Di 2 and it’s inevitable successors. The question is will it be made cheap enough to become universal ? I doubt it, there are still an awful lot of base level bikes that wouldn’t justify the expense.

I reckon that everyone I’ve spoken to who has actually ridden Di2 agrees that it’s better than mechanical shifting in terms of performance. Of course, the cost side of it is a very valid point for discussion but essentially that’s it – is the cost worth it?

And that’s what I’m questioning, how good is good enough? I don’t remember ever thinking ‘now I can ride **whatever*** because I have improved shifting’ since I had indexed triggers in the late 80s. What adds to my riding is having stuff that is reliable and adaptable so I can do what I want with it. Refinement is great as long as it doesn’t compromise adaptability. Electronics can add adaptability but I still miss being able to mix and match Shimano’s road and MTB stuff for ex.

The bottom line for me is bicycles are mechanical devices powered by humans. The combination produces the most efficient animal on the planet. Introducing another energy system into the bicycle is devolution.

I know Di2 shifts well (except when it gets stuck in the big ring 😆 ) but if the future is 1Xsomething do we really need batteries and servos for just rear shifting?

Maybe in 10 years when it works via wif-fi and the batteries are the size of a pea. Until then I don’t really get it.

Introducing another energy system into the bicycle is devolution.

I agree, JCL.

I think electronics on bikes is less a performance issue, and more, dare I say it, a moral, social one. Do we want this most inherently human, egalitarian object to become like so much else around us? Powered, even partially, by coal fire power stations, bicycles might well lose their magic.

No matter how good the shifting, that’s not something I would ever want.

Introducing another energy system into the bicycle is devolution.

I was about to say that I was right with you on that point, but I like dynamo lighting. A bike producing its own power for other functions is great. A bit pricey for an integrated city bike but I like the possibilities for battery-less DI2.

For those who reckon Di2 would be the best thing since sliced bread why aren’t you already running it on your MTB?

A K-Edge long cage will get it working on an 11-36 cassette (the stock cage should be ok up to a 32T cog) so no real limit to the gear range already possible. Plenty doable… so what is the barrier that will be cured by a 1×11 or 2×11 XTR Di2 release rather than Ultegra or Dura-Ace Di2 which is already available?

Fair enough, would be great to ride with someone as good as you sometime, my triathlete, top 5 enduro and mountain bike guide friends could learn a lot! But seriously though, can we ride in the mountains as I don’t think we will enjoy the Norfolk Broads

I’m just gonna give you one of these: 🙄 and ask you firstly to point out where I said that I found 1×10 fine for all day rides?

Then shall we look at triathletes, “top 5 enduro” (whatever that even means) and guides, which of those are known for their supreme fitness? But don’t let that get in the way of your blinkered view eh!

I’d be all over electronic XTR if it was the same price as current RRP XTR, no doubt. I don’t have it now ‘cos it’s a bodge, that and clutch mechs are teh awesomez.

Isn’t an Ultegra Di2 mech less £€$ than an XX1 mech?

I’m not yet onboard with the massive hard on people seem to have for XX1, I’d rather have a bonk gear on the XC bike and it’s too much money for my crashy hardtail!

For those who reckon Di2 would be the best thing since sliced bread why aren’t you already running it on your MTB?

i did,

however with hacked shifters from newbury bike park, so each upshift was a button click, ran fine on 11-36 at rear with a longer b-tension screw and 10t upper jockey wheel, i think thats a 32t cassette in the pic, i did have both

never had a frame i could run the front on, had it working on a scalpel “just”

sold the shifters to eliflap of mtbr/cannondale fame

now on xx1

would jump straight on di2 xtr if it was 1×11

So is the limiting factor of the currently available Di2 for you dirtyrider front mech compatability and/ or rear cassette gear range?

So what XTR Di2 for you would have to be 11-42T 1×11 (is elec really worth it for the rear mech only and how would Shimano get around the patents required for a mech to have this capacity?) or a double set up that fits more MTB frames? Is this essentially all that is holding people back from using the current Di2?

Slightly OT, but why do we still have RD which hang below the chainstays, why not above, out of the way….

its more the rear spead,

i dont want a double front, I’m a simple beast, i like gears on one side, click up for hills, click down for fast

yes it would have to be 42-10, or there abouts, with a clutch so i can run narrow wide

is it worth it for the rear mech only, absolutely, however it depends on the shifter, i want multiple shifts based on how long I’m pressing, would be clunky to begin with but you would soon learn how long does what,

i dont want a system like i had with one click = one shift, plenty of times you need to go all the way up the block,

whats holding people back from using the current di2 on mtb’s – the need to hack as there is no shifter option available, cheaply,

my shifters cost £500 including all the wires and battery, but no to bad when you consider the individual component cost,

100!

is elec really worth it for the rear mech only and how would Shimano get around the patents required for a mech to have this capacity?

The sram XX1 mech design uses non-angled parallelogram and offset top pulley. These were dictated by the ‘need’ (?) to stop the weight of the mech shifting across cogs over bumps. If XTR goes Di2 there would be no movement as the mech would be locked in place by the stepper motor, so standard clutch mech design would work fine.

The German company Pinion, seem to have a pretty viable gearbox design to me. The only downsides are you need a frame designed specifically for it. It’s heavy but all up bike weights are not too dissimilar from equivalent bikes running conventional gears and you get 18 gears with no overlap and a slightly wider overall range than a 3×10 setup, I think Nicolai did a long travel full suss AM bike in the low 30 lbs, so in the ball park. I guess its early in its design and development cycle with a way to go before it is a finessed product, but I have hopes it will replace current gears eventually.