Sherlock

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  • Sherlock
  • rewski
    Member

    Not watched the final episode yet but the wedding episode was slow, it was also littered with clumsy graphics and self indulgent transition wipes and mattes, Cumberbatch’s performance holds it together.

    Holmes never wore a deerstalker in the text of the books.
    An ‘ear flapped travelling cap’ is mentioned in one story, as is ‘a close fitting cloth cap’.
    But no Deerstalker.

    I read someplace that Sidney Paget, the artist who illustrated the original Holmes books had invented a new type of hat. He drew Holmes wearing the hat, which he called a “Deerstalker”, to try and sell a few more hats. True or not, Paget was fond of deerstalkers and did draw Holmes wearing one, so Holmes did wear a deerstalker (and Inverness cape) from when the first books appeared in print.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    Ta for that, didn’t know Padget had invented the thing.

    And where the hell did I get ‘Edinburgh’ cape from? 😀

    That’ll teach me to try and type one handed whilst making lunch. 🙂

    Premier Icon brassneck
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    For those interested in the source material (for some of it), the books are free on Kindle now, and well worth reading.

    FWIW I’ve enjoyed all of it. Well done BBC.

    fisha
    Member

    I really enjoyed last nights, but thought that Ep2 was a bit rubbish.

    I also agree with the comment that its got a little bit of a feel of Dr Who about it, too much frivolous nattering and jumping shots about … I dont remember series 1 being like that.

    I think it needs be stripped back a little to lean towards being a little grittier, grimier, dirtier and enigmatic … more early spooks style than dr who style.

    There is a BBC *look* to their productions at the moment (Robin Hood, Dr Who, Sherlock, that Greece thing that was on and even Ripper Street to an extent) , and I think they are falling fowl of beginning to all look a bit the same. Its only happened the last few years. Things like Life on Mars, spooks, waking the dead all seemed to have more inidividuality to their looks IIRC.

    Mr Woppit
    Member

    From what I can tell Watson was a bit of a buffoon originally?

    No – the original was written as a sort of “Mr Normal Steady Eddie” kind of character. Watson didn’t turn into a buffoon until the rubbish films with these guys:

    Mr Woppit
    Member

    and I think they are falling fowl

    nealglover
    Member

    [/quote]If someone rewrote Macbeth, changed the names and claimed it as their own, I think people would notice.

    Been done a few times.

    Here’s one. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throne_of_Blood

    Watson is a literary device to allow Sherlock to explain the intricacies of the plot to the reader. But he conforms well to the buddy-movie/ bromance format.

    fisha
    Member

    Mr Woppit ..

    errr … oops!

    Premier Icon vondally
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    Really good episode last night conforming with Moffats likingfor the long game/story…building up the plot through the series.

    Ending was weak for me but all of it was excellent.

    Well written and nice twist on Mary Watson re enforcing Watsons stability under pressure….very faithful to the original, Watson was far more than a steady everyman with elements of Conans doyles student medical school tutors, Watsons Afgan war involvement steady under fire and his skill as a doctor……….

    Rathbone was a fine holmes but stories in Hollywood played to the times and the needs of the auidance not dissimilar to BBC 1.

    Most fun and thoughtful Sherlock prior to BBC1 Seven per cent Solution Nicol Williamson as Holmes Robert Duvall as Watson and I think influenced Moffat and Gatiss more than people know

    FeeFoo
    Member

    @Rusty

    Can you give me a couple of Sherlock book recommendations to get me started?
    Keen to give them a go.

    Premier Icon vondally
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    scandal in bohemia
    hound of the baskervilles
    redheaded league
    The man with the twisted lip

    personally

    FeeFoo
    Member

    Cheers vondally!

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    As well as vondally’s choice, I’d go for:

    The Final Problem & The Empty House.
    The Bruce Partington Plans.
    The Blue Carbuncle.
    Charles Augustus Milverton.
    The Gloria Scott.

    They’re all good, tbh.

    Premier Icon vondally
    Subscriber

    The Blue Carbuncle. 🙂

    FeeFoo
    Member

    Ok, but if you both HAD to pick one…..?

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
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    One?
    The Man With The Twisted Lip.
    Just such a clever story.

    Premier Icon Scapegoat
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    FeeFoo – Member
    Ok, but if you both HAD to pick one…..?

    Well obviously not the Blue Carbuncle.

    It’ll spread.

    anonymouse
    Member

    Musgrave Ritual is my clear favourite. That or Bruce Partington Plans.

    FeeFoo
    Member

    Just starting The Man with the Twisted Lip – thanks all!

    mefty
    Member

    Obviously, the majority of the “books” were not books at all, but the stories appeared in Strand magazine. “A Study in Scarlet” and “the Sign of Four” were published unillustrated before this association began and Holmes is pictured first wearing a deerstalker in the fourth illustrated story to appear in Stand magazine, “The Boscombe Valley Mystery”, the first time he goes to the country in an illustrated story. He generally wore a trilby in town.

    I thought this series was pretty poor – overly stylized and a bit too pleased with itself – and last night’s was the worst and was frankly laughable. I won’t make a special effort to watch the next series.

    rogerthecat
    Member

    Enjoyed it as entertainment
    Not a fan of defective series but this has a nice twist to the plot lines.
    Good to see Moriarty back, cracking actor.

    Like the way the characters are played and the interactions but the story is padded out too much for the amount of time. Hour longs would have worked. What was the point of building up Magnusson making him so odious then killing him? Apart from to bring his PA into play as moriarty’s sister with control of media outlets.

    Premier Icon stilltortoise
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    I’ve given this a punt. £0.77 for a Kindle book that has quite a few of the classic stories in it.

    Clicky

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
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    Apart from to bring his PA into play as moriarty’s sister with control of media outlets.

    Did i miss this while watching it? Is it a ‘fact’ that Sherlock’s irish squeeze / Magnussen’s PA is Moriarty’s sister, or is it speculation?

    Premier Icon nedrapier
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    What was the point of building up Magnusson making him so odious then killing him?

    And why would the most powerful man in the world reveal to anyone that it was all in his head?

    “Oh, so if I just kill you…?”

    Premier Icon martinhutch
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    I also thought that the reveal of the last episode was pretty weak. If he knows the blackmailing material exists, he must have had access to it at some point, but chose not to retain it, but memorise it instead.

    So as soon as one of his victims says ‘publish and be damned’, his whole plan for world domination falls to pieces.

    The ‘Mary is international assassin’ was frankly preposterous, too, as was the ‘shoot to seriously injure not kill’ idea, given that Sherlock was flatlining at the hospital, so the shot would have killed nine out of ten people.

    The whole series has been a bit Doctor Who, smug and self-regarding, too little focus on tight plotting and too much on in-jokes and sorting it all out with a sonic screwdriver deduction in a couple of seconds flat.

    bikebouy
    Member

    I’d still like to meet the Doctor/Pathologist woman 😉

    Pembo
    Member

    The whole series thread has been a bit Doctor Who, smug and self-regarding

    FTFY

    Excellent TV, the eye flicking scene in episode 3 was brilliant.

    edlong
    Member

    The whole series has been a bit Doctor Who

    Agreed, the problem with putting this and Doctor Who in the hands of fanboys, is that they write for fanboys, and that’s great if you keep up with every detail, but otherwise it turns off the casual viewer. My son’s an avid Doctor Who fan (yes, I know there’s a word for it, no, not that word) but I don’t get to see every episode. Used to be fine, I’d drop in on the series when I could and enjoy the odd episode – that’s becoming increasingly impossible as it becomes so self-referential that unless you’ve seen all the other episodes and know who everyone is, and what they’ve done previously, none of it makes any sense.

    Sherlock is in danger of going the same way – unless you’ve seen all the others, don’t bother trying to follow it….

    Great that they’ll get more geeks along to the fan conventions, less great when it gets cancelled because the only people watching it are the geeks who go to fan conventions..

    atlaz
    Member

    I also thought that the reveal of the last episode was pretty weak. If he knows the blackmailing material exists, he must have had access to it at some point, but chose not to retain it, but memorise it instead.

    So as soon as one of his victims says ‘publish and be damned’, his whole plan for world domination falls to pieces.

    Well he did say that as a newspaper person he could publish and then worry about the evidence (or words to that effect). I guess if you think about it, the real damage is in revealing the info as long as it’s true, rather than having documentary evidence. Sometimes it’s not even the risk of publishing it but giving it to the wrong person like he said to Watson about Mary.

    I liked the fact the solution to the problem was as non-cerebral as it could be; shooting the bad guy in the head. That said, the scenes to tie it up and introduce the next season felt a bit rushed.

    Mr Woppit
    Member

    Excellent TV, the eye flicking scene in episode 3 was brilliant.

    Yeah – almost went along with that but then couldn’t help thinking what if (we know he’s a bit handy) Watson just kicked him in the crutch and said “Didn’t see that coming did you, Mr Clever Clogs?”

    mrmonkfinger
    Member

    just seen episode 3, in a different class to eps 1 & 2

    I don’t get to see every episode. Used to be fine, I’d drop in on the series when I could and enjoy the odd episode – that’s becoming increasingly impossible as it becomes so self-referential that unless you’ve seen all the other episodes and know who everyone is, and what they’ve done previously, none of it makes any sense

    TV shows do sometimes have series-spanning plots.

    Yeah – almost went along with that but then couldn’t help thinking what if (we know he’s a bit handy) Watson just kicked him in the crutch and said “Didn’t see that coming did you, Mr Clever Clogs?

    Sherlock had Watson on the leash, no? (presumably, in preparation for shooting Magnus Magnussen in the head, and leaving Watson free to live his life without getting charged for murder)

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    The point about the eye flicking was that Watson had to suck it up for the sake of his Mrs. Which would take a huge amount of strength. And Sherlock shooting the guy was also an enormous gesture of love and friendship. One reviewer complained that Sherlock should not be shooting people illegally, which is true but he did it to take the fall for his friends. Knowing it would lead to his death ultimately. He wanted to set Watson and Mary free from tyranny. It wasn’t really dwelt on but it was profound. Greater love hath no man than this…

    edlong
    Member

    TV shows do sometimes have series-spanning plots.

    Yes, but with Doctor Who, it’s stretching to multiple series – if you wanted to get into Doctor Who now, you’d have to watch about three years worth of DVDs to get up to speed on quite a lot of it, River Song etc. In the long term, it’s not a good plan – I have another child, who is now 8, roughly the age my lad was when he first got into Doctor Who. My daughter can’t get into it, because she doesn’t understand what a lot of it is about, since she wasn’t watching it two years ago. For a family show, that strikes me as being a short-sighted strategy.

    I’m all or keeping the geeks interested, and it’s great that there’s clues and obscure references for them to pore over in internet forums (both Who and Sherlock), but with Gatiss and Moffatt, it seems that they are writing primarily for those fans, rather than the less obsessive viewer.

    Premier Icon verses
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    I also felt eps 1&2 were weak compared with the previous series and ep3.

    Would have been good to have Murdoch Magnusson built up in the background through the 1st 2 eps (unless he was and it was so subtle I missed it 😀 ) rather than just set up and destroyed in 1 episode.

    Mr Woppit
    Member

    Sherlock could still have shot him in the head after he got a kicking…

    mrmonkfinger
    Member

    Be honest, you were just hankering for a bit more Watson-based chop sockey action weren’t you? TBH, I’m with you there. The knife scene was great.

    @edlong, ok fair enough. I’m not a Who-ver (?) and don’t follow it, but yes making it impenetrable to new viewers ain’t not a good idea.

    Premier Icon molgrips
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    Watson NOT lashing out was a major plot point. Given we were all screaming for him to do it, and the majority of our US based drama would definitely have had him doing it, it was a brilliant bit of drama imo.

Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 171 total)

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