Twist!

Lot of leaf for christmas..

So the new baddy is the bridesmaid lady?

His secretary?

That was a great episode.

So the new baddy is the bridesmaid lady?

Nope. If they continue with her she’ll play as alliance and an enemy.

Well I enjoyed it….
the problem with the 3 show set is it puts a load of pressure on to deliver 3 standouts. Also watching elementary – it’s different but with a few similarities. However it does suffer from the American problem of 20+ episodes and ending up with some real filler in there too. I’m waiting for episode 3 though, the real shame will be that is the end for another year.

That’s better.

And there was a reference to ‘The Man With The Twisted Lip’.
Which makes me very happy.

That was a great episode.

So the new baddy is the bridesmaid lady?
Nope. If they continue with her she’ll play as alliance and an enemy.

I think it’s moriaty’s sister out for revenge. Pretty sure it was her voice over his face at the end.

Pretty sure it was her voice over his face at the end.

I genuinely hope so, she was an asset to the series.
I’d like to see more of her.

Her work.
I mean I’d like to see more of her work.

Very good, loved the 3 episodes. Mycroft made reference to another sibling too, could it be moriaty and all 3 of them are playing a game? Probably be bloody ages til the next series now!

I noticed that… A sister perhaps

was redbeard the dog?

Yes – Sherlock called him by his name several times too.

So – did anybody miss him?

So what’s this about Sherlock being a girl’s name?

Apart from a few character names, the last couple have no resemblance to the original canon

So what? There must’ve been half a dozen adaptations of Sherlock Holmes over the years already. We are (fortunately) not doomed to repeat the same stuff over and over again.

Why not take it and do something different with it? You can still go and watch the old ones with Basil Rathbone if you want.

They’ve changed it.
For the worse.

No they haven’t! It still exists in all its previous versions. This is something new, based on it. Can’t see the problem here. What would be the point of spending all that money re-filming the same stories?

The problem with popular media is that the old stuff doesn’t go away, it affects current output because we are all aware of the old stuff. The original stories were part (the beginning?) of the tradition of crime drama, and we’re absolutely saturated with that currently. If you want more intricate crimes being solved by brilliant detectives, just watch 5 USA or something, there’s tons of it.

I like Sherlock because of the characterisation. And as modern people they behave in a modern way and do modern things, to a modern audience. Which makes it necessarily different. If Holmes had been born 20 years ago, this is quite possibly how he’d have turned out.

I think it’s moriaty’s sister out for revenge. Pretty sure it was her voice over his face at the end.

Ah yes.. I did wonder if her accent was deliberately the same as Moriarty. Although given the series it should be.. and the voice clip did seem a bit high for a bloke.

I expect that the new series will take the story forward with absolutely no links, even tenuous ones, to the original canon, using completely original story lines.

Stand by for mass apoplexy from the “must stick rigidly to the original” crowd. 🙄

molgrips – Member

So what? There must’ve been half a dozen adaptations of Sherlock Holmes over the years already. We are (fortunately) not doomed to repeat the same stuff over and over again.

I know.
This thread would appear to be about the new BBC series though.

Why not take it and do something different with it? You can still go and watch the old ones with Basil Rathbone if you want.

The Basil Rathbone one’s are awful – very little relation to the original stories. 😀

I have no problem with updating the stories.
What I do have a problem with is removing so much of the original that there is no point in maintaining the Holmes link.

They’ve changed it.
For the worse.

No they haven’t! It still exists in all its previous versions. This is something new, based on it. Can’t see the problem here. What would be the point of spending all that money re-filming the same stories?

When I said they’ve changed it for the worse, I was referring to Series 3 vs Series 1 & 2.
Not the new adaptation vs the originals.

Mr Woppit – Member

I expect that the new series will take the story forward with absolutely no links, even tenuous ones, to the original canon, using completely original story lines.

Stand by for mass apoplexy from the “must stick rigidly to the original” crowd.

Except no one has said that, have they?

What I do have a problem with is removing so much of the original that their is no point in maintaining the Holmes link.

The characters are still essentially the same, but in a modern context. That’s good enough for me.

100!

And +1 on molgrips.

Good characters are well worth putting in new stories so long as they’re good ones.

I expect that the new series will take the story forward with absolutely no links, even tenuous ones, to the original canon, using completely original story lines.

Stand by for mass apoplexy from the “must stick rigidly to the original” crowd.

you’re continuing to miss the point of this thread, aren’t you?

here it is spelled out:

people really liked series 1 & 2
series 3 is not as good
nobody cares that any of series 1, 2 or 3 don’t stick rigidly to the original stories

What I do have a problem with is removing so much of the original that their is no point in maintaining the Holmes link.

Is there any point in not doing? Would it make a massive difference to your enjoyment of the show if we were watching the adventures of famous consulting detective Dave Smith and his associate Doctor Johnson? Or would we all be sat here pissing and moaning that it was just a Sherlock Holmes rip-off?

you’re continuing to miss the point of this thread, aren’t you?

Well excuse me all over the place. I suppose I’m missing what YOU think is the point, but then why would I be interested in that?

Or would we all be sat here pissing and moaning that it was just a Sherlock Holmes rip-off?

😆

I enjoyed series 3 more than 1&2 (well, episode 2 and 3 of s3 anyway)
So there.

Cougar – Moderator

What I do have a problem with is removing so much of the original that their is no point in maintaining the Holmes link.

Is there any point in not doing?
Well, if you want to write something totally original, then do so.
If you’re writing an adaptation, then I feel there should be certain level of fidelity to the original characters.

Would it make a massive difference to your enjoyment of the show if we were watching the adventures of famous consulting detective Dave Smith and his associate Doctor Johnson?

Yes. 🙂
If someone rewrote Macbeth, changed the names and claimed it as their own, I think people would notice.

Or would we all be sat here pissing and moaning that it was just a Sherlock Holmes rip-off?

But of course we would. 😀

molgrips – Member

The characters are still essentially the same, but in a modern context. That’s good enough for me.

Yes, I agree. As I have said repeatedly.

I keep finding myself agreeing with Molgrips. Which is a new experience. 🙂
I liked series 3. Kept me wondering but in a different way to the other 2 series. This explored their social and interpersonal relationships more and was laying foundations for the show to expand and develop outside if the original stories/concept IMO. They’re saying that there might be more by the end of the year. Hope so.

Well excuse me all over the place. I suppose I’m missing what YOU think is the point, but then why would I be interested in that?

You’re probably not.

You do seem to be quite interested in expressing the opinion that people who don’t like adaptations being different from the original should be ridiculed – despite nobody on this thread actually being particularly concerned about the current bbc series being a modern take.

I’m doing rather well on this thread 🙂

So – did anybody miss him?

Actually I did, I thought he was a brilliant baddie and very well acted too.

If someone rewrote Macbeth, changed the names and claimed it as their own, I think people would notice.

It’s been done with most of Shakespeare’s bigger plays, all they need to do is put ‘inspired by’ or ‘loosely based on’ in the DVD commentary and that’s ok. And this is good imo.

I feel there should be certain level of fidelity to the original characters

I’m honestly curious here, as someone who’s interested in such things but has never read an original story – how do the characters differ? From what I can tell Watson was a bit of a buffoon originally? More of a foil than a character in his own right?

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/jan/13/dailymail-sherlock

Ah ha, now last nights episode was most excellent. After last weeks flimflam last nights was gripping and there was no way I’d guessed the Mary’ism link.. Fine thread that.
Enjoyed it, it restored my faith in the series. 😀

Not surprised the DM didn’t like that last episode. It was a huge and incredibly transparent dig at Murdoch. Brilliant 🙂

molgrips – Member

If someone rewrote Macbeth, changed the names and claimed it as their own, I think people would notice.

It’s been done with most of Shakespeare’s bigger plays, all they need to do is put ‘inspired by’ or ‘loosely based on’ in the DVD commentary and that’s ok. And this is good imo.

Yes. I know.
That’s why I said ‘claimed it as their own’.

I’m honestly curious here, as someone who’s interested in such things but has never read an original story – how do the characters differ? From what I can tell Watson was a bit of a buffoon originally? More of a foil than a character in his own right?

No, the Watson in this adaptation is pretty faithful to the original.
It was the Nigel Bruce characterisation in the Rathbone films that gave rise to the myth of Watson as stupid.
He’s actually very intelligent in the books.

The character of Holmes is pretty accurate too, but ahas een made a lot more ‘obvious’.

Mycroft?
Too much Mycroft in this one – as has been mentioned before.
The workings of the Diogenes club should be a little more mysterious I think. 🙂

Holmes never wore a deerstalker in the text of the books.
An ‘ear flapped travelling cap’ is mentioned in one story, as is ‘a close fitting cloth cap’.
But no Deerstalker. 🙂
One does appear in the original illustrations by Sidney Paget, as does the Edinburgh cape.
He never said ‘Elementary my dear Watson’ either, or specifically smoked a meerschaum pipe.

You really ought to read the books – they are superb.
And there are soooo many references to them in the BBC adaptation it’s quite difficult keeping up with them all. 😀

Mycroft?
Too much Mycroft in this one – as has been mentioned before.

Agree, I think Mycroft is a fantastic character but there needs to be greater mystery around him.

Mark Gatiss likes writing himself in but I don’t think he quite has the authority to play Mycroft. Appreciate his and Moffat’s writing though.

having never read any Sherlock Holmes books or seen anything related to him on film or TV, I watched it last night to see what the fuss was all about.
whilst I didn’t particularly like it and was itchingly annoyed by some of the flashbacks, cut-aways and overlayed graphics it was quite entertaining. I particularly liked the Magnussen character. the humour in it was good too.
but it felt very Doctor Who to me, which I also dislike.

I’ve enjoyed it all, series 1,2 and 3. I enjoyed the wedding, sherlocks speech was good, funny, moving in some parts. The Stag-do was humorous. Last nights was enjoyable too, some right shenanigans wi Mary. Sherlocks big act at the end of last nights, I nearly cheered at the TV 😆 . I hope they get another series commissioned.

I properly LOLed at the lines

‘I’m gonna stab you’.

‘Not from there you’re not’.

😀

I think they’ve already been given the green light for series 4 and 5, but are having trouble fitting in around the stars’ movie commitments.

If someone rewrote Macbeth, changed the names and claimed it as their own, I think people would notice.

Sons of Anarchy and The Lion King are based on Hamlet, The Forbidden Planet was based on The Tempest, Romeo Must Die and West Side Story are based on Romeo and Juliet, and there’s loooooads of romantic comedies based on The Taming of the Shrew.

last nights episode (3) saved the bacon, ooo-errrr. I thought episode 2 was pants, went to off tangent but three pulled it back and I enjoyed it.

I do think they push the bounds of what I believe. The Mary bit seemed a bit far fetched for me but I liked everything else espeically sherlock actually shooting somebody. nice touch. who didnt cheer! 😀