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  • shaping pizza dough
  • Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    what techniques are you all using?

    me? ive been trying that one where you keep flipping it onto your forearm then rotating 90 degrees, but no matter how i do it, it always gets too thin in one particular place and seems ready to tear, whilst still staying thicker in other areas. the videos online show streeeeetchy pizza dough that just seems to get bigger and bigger without tearing.

    maybe its in the flour you use, the recipe and method, dunno, but id be interested in how you make your dough, how stretchy you get it, and how you shape it please….

    thanks

    chrisdw
    Member

    I gave up with flipping etc. Use a rolling pin on a floured surface now. I just roll it a bit bigger than the pan and it easily fills the edges then.

    trail_rat
    Member

    How long between making your dough and trying to shape of ?

    With properly proven dough

    Never fails me. Certainly not trying to get fancy flicking it about on my forearm.

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    I hand stretch but my dough tends to rebound back to a smaller diameter. I use 00 flour, what do you reckon….overproved? Under?

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    How long between making your dough and trying to shape of ?

    I use 00 flour, what do you reckon….overproved? Under?

    thats what im not sure of either, i use 00 flour too. i think the recipes i tend to use call for between 1 and 2 hours proving, but im interested in which recipes youre all using for dough. im not skilled enough to know when dough is either under or over proved, so tend to just follow a recipe…..

    Premier Icon piemonster
    Subscriber

    I use a combination of hand stretching and a rolling pin.

    Another thing I find really helps is making dough in batches and freezing it. The defrosted dough is (I find) quite a lot easier to work with.

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    I hand stretch but my dough tends to rebound back to a smaller diameter. I use 00 flour, what do you reckon….overproved? Under?

    How warm is dough and how long has it proved for sounds like the gluten hasn’t formed properly

    1-2 hrs is too short
    I made pizza this week using the biga method, 48hrs for initial proving

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    https://i.postimg.cc/qBjZkT7b/2020-05-19-17-21-32.jpgnull

    https://i.postimg.cc/65PjvfnC/2020-05-19-19-40-53.jpnullg

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    trail_rat
    Member

    Just don’t do as I did the other week and try to defrost on defrost in he micro

    Fine way to get a cold cooked doughball

    Watch the Pizza Show on More4 for inspiration.

    My top tips

    1. Let your mix sit for 30 minutes before you start working on it.
    2. Let it prove for at least 24 hours in the fridge before you use it

    Albanach
    Member

    I make neopolitan style pizzas using a recipe from Stadler Made who also have a series on YouTube describing the steps I mix and knead the dough, leave for 2 hours then shape into balls and leave at room temp for 6-8 hours if I’m eating that day or refrigerate for 24-48hrs. Once ready to go I shape initially on a flat surface pushing out from centre then lift dough onto the back of my hand and tease out with fingers gently as the dough normally stretches under its own weight.

    Aye, 1 or 2 hours is nowhere near enough.

    Also, agree about freezing, but I shape, then sugo, and part cook before bagging and freezing.

    Then just need to take out the freezer, by the time the oven has heated up, pizza is about defrosted, fire on some mozzarella, away you go. The double cooking gives a great crispy base.

    trail_rat
    Member

    Yeah dough goes in the fridge over night. Then gets shaped into dough balls.

    Makes a huge difference to how workable it is and also the flavour of the dough.

    zzjabzz
    Member

    Rolling pin on floured glass thing. All my oven tins are rectangular, so form dough into a sausage shape and first few longitudinal rolls don’t go right to the ends to leave enough spare to roll the corners out on the cross rolls. Lots of flipping and flouring. There’s no shop-bought pizza to interest me anymore, just takeaway or home made…

    Also, loving sourdough pizza now, nice wee change.

    Premier Icon nixie
    Subscriber

    We use the same mix as our sourdough with the same amount of proving. You can shape it easily by hand on the worktop. Occasionally resort to a spin. Never need a rolling pin.

    trail_rat
    Member

    View post on imgur.com

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    ok, so lets say for good dough itll need to be in the fridge for at least 24 hrs.

    are we doing stuff like stretch and folds etc while its fermenting (before fridge), same as bread?

    so summats like this….
    mix flour water yeast, rest for 30 mins (autolyse), then add salt and mix again.
    ferment at room temp for 3 hrs say, with stretch and folds every 30 mins
    fridge for 24-48 hrs
    out of fridge, rest for half hr or so til room temp
    divide into however many pizzas youre doing
    then do all the stretching/shaping, loading with food, cook?

    sound about right or is that more faff than required?

    thanks

    Badly, but tastly

    I like to leave in the fridge for 10 days til it honks like ****

    Premier Icon leffeboy
    Subscriber

    For shaping if the dough doesn’t have enough water it can be a bit tough to stretch. In that case I find I can flatten in roughly with my hands, then leave it under a towel for 10 mins to relax, then it will shape by letting it fall over your hand or arm without any problems. If it is springing back then just let it rest longer

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    sadex not knowing the mix you are using its hard to say if its lack of hydration, yeast, salt etc. post up your mix

    try this http://www.pizzacreator.net/ aim for no less than 60% hydration and increase it when you get comfortable handling a moist dough.

    Albanach
    Member

    ok, so lets say for good dough itll need to be in the fridge for at least 24 hrs.
    are we doing stuff like stretch and folds etc while its fermenting (before fridge), same as bread?
    so summats like this….
    mix flour water yeast, rest for 30 mins (autolyse), then add salt and mix again.
    ferment at room temp for 3 hrs say, with stretch and folds every 30 mins
    fridge for 24-48 hrs
    out of fridge, rest for half hr or so til room temp
    divide into however many pizzas youre doing
    then do all the stretching/shaping, loading with food, cook?
    sound about right or is that more faff than required?
    thanks

    I don’t do stretch and folds. If I was having pizzas Saturday evening – I’d make the dough on Friday night following the Stadler Made recipe linked above which I think is 60-65% hydration using strong white bread flour. Mix, knead, rest for 2 hours then portion it into balls, on to a floured baking tray,cover completely with cling or cloths and leave to rest in the fridge overnight. If pizza kick off time was 6pm I’d remove the dough at 2 or 3 o’clock to let it come to room temperature then shape. Bake them on stones with just the tomato sauce on top for 3-4 mins then throw on cheese/other toppings for 1-2 mins.

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    sadex not knowing the mix you are using its hard to say if its lack of hydration, yeast, salt etc. post up your mix

    ive been using this one. its about a 4 hour prove. 64% hydration.
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2011/sep/08/how-to-cook-perfect-pizza

    worryingly, i was going to have a bash at this bbc recipe, but now looking at it, it seems to be less than 2 hours prove and only 55% hydration so ill knock that on the head.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/how_to_make_pizza_50967

    albanach, ill go search for that stadler made recipe on youtube.

    thanks

    EDIT: i do have a sourdough starter on the go so id like to do sourdough pizzas, but feel i ought to dial in the ‘normal’ pizza method first before tweaking the recipe….

    Premier Icon jeffl
    Subscriber

    I just use a rolling pin, What’s the advantage of hand stretching it over the back of your arm?

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    a rolling pin pushes all the yeasty air bubbles out. how many pizzerias do you see using a rolling pin?

    Premier Icon nixie
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    i do have a sourdough starter on the go so id like to do sourdough pizzas, but feel i ought to dial in the ‘normal’ pizza method first before tweaking the recipe

    In our extensive (had a heavy pizza oven for nearly 10 years now) the sourdough has been the easiest to shape. Even over dough with fast year that’s had a 24hr prove or freezer time.

    trail_rat
    Member

    I’d Look at the ooni videos for a starter.

    They may not be artisanal but they are simple and work.

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    In our extensive (had a heavy pizza oven for nearly 10 years now) the sourdough has been the easiest to shape.

    and what recipe do you use if you dont mind me asking?

    trail_rat
    Member

    Overview one but they do specific videos

    jolmes
    Member

    Holy crap this is all new to me. We’ve had pizza night on a Friday for about 4 years now and been happy with them much, better and cheaper than takeaways but I’ve always struggled to get them circular. Sometimes we’ve made them straight away after work even without proving which from the look of this thread would be blasphemy…

    It seems like my recipe is more or less exactly the same as the Guardians perfect pizza.

    So whats the difference between leaving it in a warm spot for 2-3 hours and leaving it in the fridge to prove over night? Is this more beneficial for a sourdough?

    trail_rat
    Member

    Sometimes we’ve made them straight away after work even without proving which from the look of this thread would be blasphemy…

    Used to do that too. Makes crunchy heavy not very tastefull bready dough .

    The prove makes the dough much lighter and much tastier

    I think the prove time makes more difference than using 00 gauge over regular bread flour.

    johndoh
    Member

    Can someone quickly sum up what I need to do to prove pizza flour (I use strong white bread flour in a breadmaker). I usually make the dough in the morning then leave in the fridge for the day, taking out about an hour before needed.

    What am I doing wrong and how should I do it?

    I’m of the opinion that there needs to be some rise time outside of the fridge John, then fridge comes later.

    trail_rat
    Member

    What am I doing wrong and how should I do it?

    What’s do you feels wrong with your pizza.

    I was happy with my quick dirty crunchy double cooked bread pizza style disk till I went to a mate with a penchant for making good pizza and he served up a neopolitan style pizza from his uuni….. Closest I’ve had to my local Italians 9quid a pop 12 inch pizza. Just a very different experiance.

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    What am I doing wrong and how should I do it?

    if it works for you, then youre not doing anything wrong 🙂

    from the answers above and further googling, it seems that the dough should be kneaded for 5-10 mins, have at least 4 hours prove at room temp (or until it about doubles in size), divide into balls, then put in the fridge for any time up to a few days (one website even says a fortnight). when you want to make them, take them out for an hour or so beforehand to warm to room temp again then shape and load.

    think thats right…..

    trail_rat
    Member

    Or a slow proove with less yeast and 24-48 hrs in the fridge.

    Deffo get it out for an hour or 2 and up to temp to get it workable again

    DrP
    Member

    I reckon 2 hours initial prove, then split into balls, then another 30 min, it’s enough…

    I flatten out the balls.. use a rolling pin to shape into discs, then sort of “stretch spin stretch soon” on a floured work surface.

    works well for me..

    DrP

    Terry, what’s your method then, always up for a wee bit of experimentation.

    Premier Icon leffeboy
    Subscriber

    (I use strong white bread flour in a breadmaker

    I would use half strong, half plain.  All strong can have too much gluten which makes it difficult to stretch as it wants to come back into a ball

    Premier Icon nixie
    Subscriber

    and what recipe do you use if you dont mind me asking?

    For sourdough;

    Recipe (and starter) came from our local bakery (Hoxtons bakehouse in Southampton) when we did their sourdough course.

    The basic mix (one loaf or 4 pizzas) is 450g strong white/pizza flour (we have a large bag of caputo pizza flour but don’t alway use this), 100g spelt (or wholemeal/SW/heritage depending on what flavour we are after). 100g starter, 11g salt, 500ml luke warm water (of which its a judgement call how much is actually used, normally 400-450 ish, pizza flour seems to need more). Mix flour and starter, leave for 10 minutes. Add salt and water. Kneed for 10 minutes. Prove for several hours (how long exactly depends on what we are doing that day). Into fridge for long prove till next day. On day out of fridge to warm up. Bench and shape into balls. Rest like this for 30mins then shape into pizza.

    For fast action yest we used the one out of Jamie Oliver’s ‘Jamie at home’ book but with a cold overnight prove.

    Premier Icon nixie
    Subscriber

    @leffeboy not when proved fully it doesn’t.

    @johndoh not doing anything wrong if it works. There are many different methods. However we would prove on the side if using the same day and knock it back if it gets too big.

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