- Severe pedantry
Well how would ‘sideways traction’ be generated then?Posted 2 months ago
Reminds me of the maxim that I first encountered on a Quattro owners’ forum ref driving in snow and ice:
“4 x 0 = 0”.
ie just cause you can go forwards on the throttle (relying on the greater mechanical traction afforded by four-wheel drive), doesn’t mean you’re going to stop on the brake (your tyres have no more grip than anyone else’s).Posted 2 months ago
I’d say if your tyres grip enough to allow you to accelerate, they grip enough to allow you to decelerate.Posted 2 months ago
Perhaps the tyres are directional .Posted 2 months ago
The thing with 4WD here is that some people probably go from 2WD to 4WD and think it has more grip, which it doesn’t: it has better traction because it can deliver power through four wheels and multiple differentials, but when it comes to braking (and to a reasonable degree cornering) it works exactly the same as a 2WD car.
In other words, you can have two cars which are identical—tyres included—except for having different drivetrains, and one will have more traction but they will both have exactly the same amount of grip.
The point being that if you think traction and grip are the same thing, then the greater traction of 4WD is going to bite you in the arse.Posted 2 months ago
I’d say if your tyres grip enough to allow you to accelerate, they grip enough to allow you to decelerate.
The sort of mistake you only need to make in real life once to understand 🙂Posted 2 months ago
Surely steering and braking are still acceleration, it’s just the vector/sign are different? 😛
The point being that if you think traction and grip are the same thing, then the greater traction of 4WD is going to bite you in the arse.
Couldn’t the traction and grip be identical in absolute magnitude, it’s just the problem is traction control caps your acceleration to the available traction/grip whereas in the case of braking/steering the traction/grip available is insufficient to provide the required acceleration to avoid a collision…
edit – still agree it will bite you in the arse, just questioning whether they necessarily would have different magnitudesPosted 2 months ago
I think the thing with 4WD is that, depending on how it is implemented, it distributes the load across four tyres, so the driver is less likely to exceed the grip levels of any single tyre. If the diffs are locked, then it will prevent one wheel from locking up under braking, so it redistributes the braking load between the front and rear axles. The same applies with wheelspin through corners, so you are less likely to have one wheel exceed the available grip while the others don’t, so you can use all the available grip whereas a regular car is limited by one axle losing grip. Obviously, 4WD systems are extremely complex because a fully locked system would understeer like a pig, but the basic principle applies.Posted 2 months ago
it’s just the problem is traction control caps your acceleration to the available traction/grip
Um, cars didn’t always have traction control (millennial alert! 😉 ).Posted 2 months ago
I’m so proud that this has descended into a good-mannered technical discussion AND a pun war. Well done team.Posted 2 months ago
Well how would ‘sideways traction’ be generated then?
Cornering (not 100% sideways of course)Posted 2 months ago
.Posted 2 months ago
Next time you get on your bike, try and set off sideways. You can’t:
You can: Side hop.
Presumably he’s just remembered about sidehops and is now thinking…Posted 2 months ago
Yet a bike with forward motion can lean over (or be steered), causing an acceleration force to be generated laterally. If traction cant go sideways then why is the circle of traction a circle?
I’ll be honest, I’m mostly playing whilst also genuinely wondering about this as its been a loonggg time since i’ve looked at anything along these linesPosted 2 months ago
That’s not traction. The engineering definition of traction has been given/linked several times.
a physical process in which a tangential force is transmitted across an interface between two bodies through dry friction or an intervening fluid film resulting in motion, stoppage or the transmission of power.
— Mechanical Wear Fundamentals and Testing, Raymond George Bayer
In the design of wheeled or tracked vehicles, high traction between wheel and ground is more desirable than low traction, as it allows for higher acceleration (including cornering and braking) without wheel slippage.
I’m sorry, I’m not sure why I’m arguing this!Posted 2 months ago
goes back to the same point: a tyre does not have traction on it’s own. Traction is force delivered to move something along. A tyre can enable that force to be delivered, based on its tread, compound pressure, footprint, the surface it’s acting against and what it’s being asked to move.
given a fat slick on grippy tarmac, the tyre’s footprint on the tarmac at any one time can be pushed agaisnt in any direction, the grip’s the same.
The ability to apply force through the tyre by pedaling v. by sidehopping has got nothing to do with the patch of tyre in contact with the road in any instant and everything to do with the rest of the bicycle and rider that isn’t in contact with the road.Posted 2 months ago
I’m sorry, I’m not sure why I’m arguing this!
You bloody do!
It’s sitting there in bold, an inch away from the box you’re typing in!Posted 2 months ago
😀Posted 2 months ago
Presumably he’s just remembered about sidehops and is now thinking…
Mostly I was just regretting it all having gone beyond the pun stage, so figured best to just walk away out of shear boredom.Posted 2 months agoPosted 2 months ago
I will now step back from the podium.
Surely you step down from a podium?Posted 2 months ago
At the end of the day WGAF, 16stonepig if that’s your main gripe in life then you are truly blessed, but for the 16 stone pig thing. 🐖😊.Posted 2 months ago
When I was young the local bus company was called Yorkshire Traction, the famous or infamous ‘Traccy buses’ which carted us to and from skule and to the saturday matinee in town, Yorkshire Grip just hasn’t got the same ring to it , that’s allPosted 2 months ago
Isn’t the Yorkshire Grip a technique for holding a wallet without it ever falling open? 😉Posted 2 months ago
Arr reyt enuff, and back to pedants corner we go…….Posted 2 months ago
Our we could open the door to pedantry pantry…Posted 2 months ago
So do unicycles have traction, but no grip then?
Do planes on a conveyor belt have grip but no traction?
What about a unicycle on a conveyor belt?Posted 2 months ago
OopsPosted 2 months ago
Isn’t it “sheer” boredom?
Isn’t it “sheer” boredom?
Not on Planet Pun it isn’t. An unappreciated gem, that one.Posted 2 months ago
I liked it.Posted 2 months ago
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