PLEASE can everyone (mag article authors included) stop saying “traction” when they mean “grip”?

I will now step back from the podium.

Traction – the grip of a tyre on a road

I’m not sure this is going to go too well for you

Are magazine journalists considered authors?

Seems you’re making a big deal out of this – get a traction man!

Traction – the grip of a tyre on a road

I’m not sure this is going to go too well for you

Where on earth did you get that definition from?

Leave it mashr,you’ll just create unnecessary friction.

https://www.google.com/search?q=traction+definition

fasthaggis

Member

Leave it mashr,you’ll just create unnecessary friction.

🙂 I’ll let it slip by this time then

I feel like a system of weights and pulleys could be useful here…

I think that there is a large amount of overlap where mtbing is concerned.

I think the OP may be on a slippery slope with this subject.

I used to say it a lot, but now, thanks to the OP, I’m an ex-traction fan.

there is a large amount of overlap where mtbing is concerned.

Graction?

You suck Martin 😉

Martin, that joke is breathtakingly bad.

Maybe, but I believe that, with a wider audience, it will gain traction.

Good to see people getting to grips with this subject,but remember,you have to take the rough with the smooth.

I will now step back from the podium

A podium is the thing you stand on. A lecturn is the thing you stand behind when you are making a speech.

PLEASE can everyone (mag article authors included) stop saying “traction”

Mag article authors don’t say, they write.

A podium is the thing you stand on. A lecturn is the thing you stand behind when you are making a speech.

We could argue about that for dais and dais.

I think you mean debate, not argue.

We could argue about that for dais and dais.

Yes, but someone has to make a stand against this kind of mistake.

A lecturn is the thing

I hate to lecture, but ‘lectern’.

I thought traction was pulling effort as in traction engine? Not the same as grip at all.

Putting aside the puns for a moment – traction is the ability to deliver acceleration by applying force against a surface, e.g. a driving wheel’s tyre against the road surface. However, some people use traction and grip interchangeably. I’ve seen the phrase “front wheel traction” more than once.

I’m all for language evolving over time as long as the message is clear, but when reading a tyre review, for example, “grip” and “traction” are two very different characteristics. Nuance is important.

This is true, especially when we’re geeks comparing two rubber rings.

For example as an engineer I wince inwardly when people (including my own kids) say “tough” and “hard” interchangeably, when they’re different properties that typically you experience a trade off between. But I don’t bother too much as I understand the wider meaning, but know my engineer mates will use the correct term when necessary.

With a tyre, though, is there likely to be much difference between lateral grip and traction? (I get the pedantry, but…)

philjunior

Member
……
With a tyre, though, is there likely to be much difference between lateral grip and traction? (I get the pedantry, but…)

When the rubber meets the road, it depends how much effort you want to put in.

It’s a word that has more than one meaning….

When these ‘journos’ refer to traction, I doubt they mean:

“the application of a sustained pull on a limb or muscle, especially in order to maintain the position of a fractured bone or to correct a deformity.”

they more likely mean:

“the grip of a tyre on a road or a wheel on a rail.”

In a similar vein when the same ‘journos’ review a stem, they probably aren’t talking about:

“the main body or stalk of a plant or shrub, typically rising above ground but occasionally subterranean.”

or a hub:

“the effective centre of an activity, region, or network.”

Grip is lateral.
Traction is longitudinal.

But people commonly use one for the other.

The ideal is to visualise a traction circle (even that name is partially wrong of course) to understand how the two are related and that their sum constitutes the total friction available through a tyre, irrespective of the distribution between the 2 axis.

I fought to purchase enough traction on the ride last night.

traction is the ability to deliver acceleration by applying force against a surface,

just taking this as a definition on its merits, it doesn’t preclude traction being used for steering and cornering grip.

Acceleration is the rate of change of velocity. Velocity is speed with direction. if you change direction, there will be an acceleration in that direction, by applying force against the dirt, via the side knobs. Better grip = more side “traction”. If you don’t need to make any changes of velocity, you don’t need any grip.

But traction is about pulling, not acceleration. Ploughing a furrow doesn’t involve a lot of changes in speed.

With a tyre, though, is there likely to be much difference between lateral grip and traction? (I get the pedantry, but…)

Yes. Traction for tyre purchase when pedalling. Grip as a general term for stickiness, including cornering and braking.

Grip is lateral.
Traction is longitudinal

Anything behind that or just the way you use it?

I’d use grip when it comes to lateral (cornering) grip, and traction when it comes to climbing/braking, but they’re essentially the same thing

I think that there is a large amount of overlap where mtbing is concerned.

not so much now head angles are so slack. More likely to catch your toes on a CX bike

A grip is a component fitted to the end of a handlebar.

Traction is not a bicycle component and can not be fitted to a handlebar.

When riding I often hear shouts of “Get a grip”.

Is this thread been made sticky yet?

Harking back to an engineering degree in my distant past, my understanding of the term is this:

Traction is the ability to push or pull something by way of delivering power to a surface. In the case of a wheel, such power can only be delivered longitudinally, and a tyre provides (for) traction by way of longitudinal grip. A tyre doesn’t “have” traction, but it delivers it, and only longitudinally.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traction_(engineering)

Grip is lateral.
Traction is longitudinal

Anything behind that or just the way you use it?

I would have thought common knowledge and basic physics but clearly not (joke).

Just Google “traction circle” and you will see 2 axis, one horizontal for lateral acceleration (grip or lateral grip) and one vertical for longitudinal acceleration (traction).

When you steer you rely on lateral grip and when you push on the pedals or brake you rely on traction. The traction circle visualizes everything in between as the two overlap, when you steer on the brakes for instance.

Total friction is a mix between the two. If you use all the available front wheel friction under intense braking that’s usually why you will fall off your bike if you try to use lateral grip by steering at the same time, because there is none left and you overstepped the circle.

When these ‘journos’ refer to traction, I doubt they mean … they more likely mean: …
In a similar vein when the same ‘journos’ review a stem, they probably aren’t talking about…
or a hub…

Yeah, but context is everything. If I come up with an idea for a knowledge hub about stem cells, which then gains traction, the meanings are clear from the context.

If the context is vehicle dynamics, which a tyre review is, then “traction” has a well-established and specific meaning within that context, and it’s got absolutely nothing at all to do with how well a front tyre goes round a corner.

wardee

Member

A grip is a component fitted to the end of a handlebar.

Sounds like a bar plug

Just Google “traction circle” and you will see 2 axis, one horizontal for lateral acceleration (grip or lateral grip) and one vertical for longitudinal acceleration (traction).

Very quick google showed nothing saying traction of longitudinal and grip is lateral