The sister-in-law is selling her old 4×4 – it’s got no MOT and SORNed.

I told her to list it as spares or repair and that it must be taken away on a trailer. So, it ended today and the winner asked if it was driveable and wanted to drive it half way across the country back to London. I told her to tell him to jog-on.

Just relayed this to the wife and she comes back with – ‘when money has changed hands it would be his car then and he would be the one taking the risk’. And this would be the case even if the car was roadworthy – a buyer could drive your car away – before ownership on V5 has been transferred – and break several motoring laws on the way home, or not even have a driving licence. And who would be responsible then?

Am I being too careful in that in this scenario you would be knowingly allowing someone to drive an unroadworthy vehicle – in her scenario you have no control.

Take cash, sign V5 photograph it and hand over the keys. Walk back inside.

If you have a problem report it to the police once you have the cash

a buyer could drive your car away – before ownership on V5 has been transferred – and break several motoring laws on the way home, or not even have a driving licence. And who would be responsible then?

The person in the car, that is where it ends. You don’t need a licence to buy a car.

Just make sure any insurance in your name is cancelled asap.

I mind a story from a few years ago about a guy who sold his motorbike. The guy who bought it caused an accident or something and wasn’t insured but the seller was as the paperwork hadn’t been done to register the new owner and he hadn’t yet cancelled his insurance. Cost him a fortune IIRC.

Edit: here https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-biker-insurance-hell-after-4141840

No MOT means no valid insurance – no?

If so, it would be pretty stupid to knowingly allow anyone to drive it regardless of who’s responsibility it would be.

Just to add you can drive the vehicle to a pre booked MOT appointment though.

do the V5 transfer online only between 0700-1900 https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle  at that point it is responsibility of the new owner to tax and insure it

No MOT means no valid insurance – no?

No

An often repeated fallacy. It can severely impact on a claim but it doesn’t automatically invalidate the insurance.

That said, in ops scenario he probably doesn’t have insurance anyway

If it’s unroadworthy you can’t drive it anywhere. Not even to a pre-booked not.

The person in the car, that is where it ends. You don’t need a licence to buy a car.

If it gets caught on ANPR and shows up for no MOT, tax or insurance then the driver can’t be proven? Only if pulled over.

As someone else said you can now do the V5 transfer online, so do that with the buyer before handing over the keys.  If you were really paranoid you could ask for some ID (so if the police come knocking you have somewhere to send them), and issue a written receipt (2 copies signed by both of you) with the time on it – and explicitly stating vehicle is not mot’d and sorned.

if you believe the vehicle to be unroadworthy, rather than just out of mot then it is an offence to sell it for use on the road – but again a clear statement that the seller is responsible for its removal and recommended to use a trailer would clearly go a long way to passing responsibility.

if you mark the goods as delivered/collected in eBay as soon as they leave then you’ll have an extra piece of evidence to corroborate your story and the timings if something comes of it.

If it gets caught on ANPR and shows up for no MOT, tax or insurance then the driver can’t be proven? Only if pulled over.

V5 Filed online, photo of receipt etc. transaction record…

What if they turn up with trade plates?

If it’s not roadworthy it’s not roadworthy.  Tradeplates or no tradeplates

Signed receipt of sale with time and date of purchase, mileage etc, both parties get a copy, ideally witnessed. There are car sale contract templates avaliable online, AA website etc, just print out and fill in the blanks

DVLA V5 transfer online is immediate between 7am and 7pm.

If the vehicle is currently insured then contact insurance company with time and date of change of ownership, cancel or transfer insurance to another car.

Personally once the money and V5 is completed it up to the new owner what they do with it.

It’s been a while but as I recall the seller keeps the V5 which the buyer has signed and dated and is responsible for sending to DVLA? So do that, if as above you can do it online all the better.

It won’t be the first time someone has bought a vehicle without MOT and driven it home, it won’t be the 100th time that month someone has done just that, the penalty is usually a fixed one at £100 and doesn’t mean points. You don’t need a valid MOT to insure a vehicle. If the buyer wants to be legal they just need to book a test, drive to it, spend £50 or whatever on a list of what’s wrong with it and drive it home, but that’s really up to them.

If they turn up with a trailer but stop at the first car park and unload it, then drive it away… it’s a stupid statement BUT

if the car is mostly roadworthy and it starts up there is little you can do to stop someone driving it once it is sold. You can’t guarantee they will insure, mot it or fix anything in the future you can’t fix stupid.

.by all means try to impress the importance or trailering it away but other than that transfer the v5 and take pictures of the docs. Last car I bought from a dealer they provided me an inspection cert and I only got the keys when I provided an insurance document worked out pretty well

You have nothing to worry about as long as you cancel the insurance, your wife is right.

Just make it non-drivable.  If it was sold as spares or repairs and stated as not working then just make it not work by removing a key part of the car that will stop it working but don’t tell the buyer which part.

Surely to get it unSORNed the buyer will need proof of mot?

Also to get it taxed.

Not legally your responsibility but if a mother with two kids show up expecting to be able to drive a wreck across the country with say , faulty brakes, that the seller knows about. How will she feel when it ploughs through a kiddies playground into a river?

Surely we have to show some responsibility to others.

Thanks all – looks like the wife is right legally. Although I’ll claim I’m morally right! 🙂

The main thing wrong with the car is rust to the chassis – it’s driveable – but needs a fair amount of welding work to pass it’s MOT. Brakes and all other running gear is OK and it was being driven up to 4 weeks ago.

bukobuko
Member

You have nothing to worry about as long as you cancel the insurance, your wife is right.
Posted 10 hours ago

You sure? Not saying you’re wrong but…I used to work in motor insurance and my (very vague) recollection was that if a buy drives away without insurance and crashes the car, the last known insurer (lookup ‘RTA Insurer’ it might be that) will be looked up to pay any third party claim,  they will of course then look to recover their outlay.  I can’t remember if that is from the new owner or old, I presume the new one, but either way I seem to recall it being rather a pain in the chebs.

Happy to be corrected because this was from a previous life long ago…

just make it not work by removing a key part of the car that will stop it working but don’t tell the buyer which part.

^^^Seems the easiest way of dealing with this situation.

Retro83 – Thats only true if the original owner failed to cancel their policy.

If you’ve sold the car to someone else, it’s their problem what they do with it.  Do you worry what someone might be doing with a car you sold five years ago?  Tell them the facts, if they then still choose to drive it illegally then that’s their lookout.

I sold a Cavalier SRi to a dodgy-looking scrote many years ago.  I had the V5 in the post whilst the ink was still wet.  Predictably, I got three NIPs inside of a couple of weeks, just kicked them all back going “not my car, mate.”  Never heard anything further.  SEP.

I stupidly didn’t cancel the insurance on a car i sold, lets just say i had a very lucky escape.

If the new owner drives the car without insurance and has a serious accident you could end up losing everything.