Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 40 total)
  • Sell Commencal Meta AM to get a Canyon Spectral AL 6.0 – Good idea or pointless?
  • dmishka
    Free Member

    Hello all.

    I’ve got a Commencal Meta AM Essential and I’m almost convinced it’s more bike than I need. Does anyone think that trying to sell it (and take the financial hit) is worth it to get the new Spectral?

    I was originally going to get the Meta Trail and I wish I had but at the last minute I went for the AM (got greedy for the travel maybe – it’s a long story anyway). It was foolish though as I’d read all the reviews for the Trail and it sounded ideal. Now i’m stuck in bikers limbo not knowing if the bike I have is the one (literally can’t afford more than one 🙂 or if I would be much better off with a more specific trail bike that I thrash round the woods and go off on adventures on.

    My question really is how much different is the Spectral to the AM? On paper they seem pretty similar. Anyone have experience of both? I’m not that an extreme a rider and this was my first major purchase since getting back to riding so if the spectral is more of a better all-rounder then maybe i’m better with that.

    Failing that, if anyone’s selling a 2018 Trail I’d consider it if I can shift my AM. I JUST missed out on the last batch which nearly made me weep.

    Appreciate anyone’s input on this, thanks.

    damascus
    Free Member

    Why not just sell the frame and buy a different frame?. What forks do you have?

    dmishka
    Free Member

    Hello mate, thanks for responding. Yeah could try that but seems neither Commencal or Canyon have the frame for sale that I’d want so I’d have to look out for second hand.

    The fork on my bike is the Fox 36 Performance float so it’s a good one. Pretty sure you could reduce the travel in it to suit as well.

    I have the DPX2 on the rear. You know if it’s possible to reduce the travel on that somehow?

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    jjprestidge
    Free Member

    I really don’t think 10 or 20mms less travel is going to make that much difference.

    What, specifically, do you think is wrong with the Meta?

    JP

    andytheadequate
    Free Member

    I understand your issue, I have the same problem with the enduro bike I bought. Nice going downhill, but everything else feels like a bit of a slog. Not sure the Spectral would be worth the extra cost though, as it’s probably not that different. Might be worth trying to demo a few similar bikes to see if they’re any better before committing to one.

    dmishka
    Free Member

    Yeah just saw that Canyon had a demo this weekend but it was sold out! I thought about other bikes and have tried to keep an open mind but they’re all so much more expensive for similar builds. Getting a cheaper one with a worse build would feel a bit of a comedown now. It is like you said, the bike just feels a bit bogged down unless your going downhill. I’m not the strongest so could be a fitness thing as well.

    I think it is also in my mind but it’s so hard to shake the feeling that the bike is not quite right for you. I guess it’s a problem with Enduro bikes though as they’re designed for racing and going downhill and not necessarily for the average riding experience.

    The Commencal is really good of course and one of the nicest looking bikes out there I think. The spectral does seem pretty close to it but all the feedback and reviews are amazing and describe it as probably the perfect bike for me and for the sort of riding i’d like to do. It would be a costly mistake, had no idea bikes would depreciate that bad, but for my peace of mind it might be the only way. I don’t really have the know-how to customise and tune my bike even if it was possible either. Anyway, first world problems and all that…

    ta11pau1
    Full Member

    The spectral is a great bike, not sure on the geometry on the Commencal, but the Canyon is very middle of the road – not too long, but not short, confidence inspiring and very playful. It’s a very, very good all round trail bike.

    dmishka
    Free Member

    that sounds music to my ears thanks.

    dmishka
    Free Member

    Thanks for all the input on this. From what I’ve watched and read and from peoples feedback the Spectral could be pretty perfect. Hard to tell how different it will feel from the Commencal, as JP pointed out, very little in it in terms of travel, but it is definitely designed to be the kind of bike I want and that’s pretty comforting. I’ll have to see how much I can get for the AM to see if it’s worth it.

    russyh
    Free Member

    What’s the bills spec of your meta? Personally I would stick with what you have. If the bike feels a bit too substantial then lighten it up slightly with some different tyres of wheels. Personally I wouldn’t change what you have for a spectral. Nothing wrong with the canyon. Just not sure it will be much better than what you have if your current bike is set up accordingly. That said the meta is classed as an enduro bike, with some burly bits like 36’s. But you could change a few parts to make it better at meeting your requirements almost certainly cheaper than the hit you will take from selling it and buying another new bike. So what’s the full spec of your Meta? Got a link?

    whatyadoinsucka
    Free Member

    i’d test the spectral if you can , i had the old model which won many awards and imho it was a dog for peddling uphill, point it downhill and it handled anything.

    dmishka
    Free Member

    Hmm, yeah I know it does make sense if it’s possible. This is the full spec:

    https://tech.commencal.com/bike/META-AM-V4.2-ESSENTIAL-650B-SHINY-RED-2018/299.html

    I did ask Commencal a while back if it was possible to change the travel and they said this:

    Hello Duncan,

    Thank you for your email, we appreciate you did contact us directly about your Meta AM! To reduce the travel of your fork you have to replace the air piston rode, SRAM sell this part as aftermarket. By the way we do not recommend to do so, the geometry is made around a 170mm fork: BB height, head angle, seat tube angle… If you change the fork height you will have a bike touching pedals everywhere, and a weird position. We recommend you to keep your Meta AM as it is, and go for a real Meta TR is needed 😉

    Take care,

    BENJAMIN TERECH

    I then asked if you could balance it by changing the rear travel and they said:

    If you fit a shorter shock you will lower even more the bottom bracket, so that’s definitively a false good idea

    I might have asked the wrong question though. I kind of assumed that the AM and TR had the same frame with different spec but according to their response it doesn’t seem the case.

    dmishka
    Free Member

    Which year was your Spectral from whatyadoinsucka? Sorry, keep trying to reply directly to peoples comments but doesn’t work 🙂 I’m not hugely bothered about climbing necessarily, it’s how it feels on trails that’s important to me. If it’s playful and easy to chuck around so that it can make any trail seem fun then that would be ideal.

    Kamakazie
    Full Member

    They may have the same main frame but different rear triangle and rockers.
    Or both could be different.

    Their advice makes sense.
    Why do you want to reduce travel though?
    As in, what specifically do you want to change about how the bike feels?

    As for changing, definitely test ride some bikes. Travel means very little with regards to how a bike rides these days.

    ta11pau1
    Full Member
    dmishka
    Free Member

    That would be the smart thing to do. I’ll check and see if Canyon are doing another day somewhere.

    In terms of ride, I’m looking for something that’s fun to just pick up and go out into the woods on and to be agile enough so that fairly flat, tame parts of trails aren’t a bit dull. I’d like to ride rough stuff sometimes though and grow into the bike, hence wanting full sus. Plus having a bike that can handle a lot of stuff is really appealing.

    On the meta I would say it feels a bit too slack (relaxed maybe?) and not very easy to move around (I could do with being stronger) and excelerate.

    I make it sound like the Commencal’s a dog, obviously it’s not but I don’t have anything to compare it to so it could be that most bikes that I’m looking at have a similar feeling. The AM just seems to be intended for something different to what I want so it’s hard to get past that when your reading descriptions of other bikes (spectral and meta trail) that sound ideal.

    My theory of reducing travel was to try and match the trail version as the reviews of that were great. I thought that could work if the frames the same but sounds like it’s not. The spectral has similar travel to the AM but I’m assuming the better ride style comes from the frame design and perhaps size of tires.

    dmishka
    Free Member

    They do read very similar. Any tips for getting the bike to feel more agile?

    Would smaller tires, reducing the travel on the fork a bit to bring the front down make any difference? Any ideas really..

    joebristol
    Full Member

    That dhr2 in 2.4” wt size on the back is very draggy – I put one on my Bird Aeris (170mm front / 160mm rear travel) and it sucked the life out of it on pedally trails. I’ve swapped it out for a 2.3
    Maxxis aggressor for the summer and it feels a lot livelier. The tyre seems ok on a 30mm wide rim. For the winter a 2.3 dhr2 will be going on there. The 2.4” is a lot bigger than the 2.3” version of that tyre.

    I’ve got the 2.5” dhf up front and think it’s worth the size / weight there – although you could swap it for a 2.3” dhf or dhr2 if you want to save more weight.

    Not sure how heavy your wheels are – there might be some gains to be made here too in acceleration and feeling if you can lose some weight.

    As said by Commencal it might handle a bit weird if you take too much travel out of the fork. The geometry will get steeper (so quicker steering) but the bb will also get lower which could lead to pedal strikes.

    ta11pau1
    Full Member

    The bikerader review does say:

    If you’re lucky enough to live in an area with properly rugged, steep terrain or spend your weekends racing enduro, the Meta AM V4.2 Essential is an impressive bike. Taking on an enduro race without changing a single spec would be entirely feasible, even on this lower-level smasher.

    On the flip side, if your local haunts are more tame or you’re not a total fiend for gravity-fueled fun, the Meta AM V4.2 would certainly be overkill and a handful for all but super strong, talented riders.

    And about the spectral AL 6.0, MBR said:

    So the 2019 Spectral Al 6.0 is a absolute demon on the descents, balanced on flowing singletrack and incredibly efficient on climbs. It’s everything a great trail bike should be

    Pound for pound, there is no better 27.5in trail bike that the Canyon Spectral AL 6.0. It pedals with aplomb, it feels light and agile on flatter trails and when it’s time rumble it’s extra travel and dialled geometry means it every bit as comfortable going 12 rounds as delivering a knockout blow.

    I’m willing to bet a lot of the difference is in a slighly steeper HA, and suspension kinematics.

    dmishka
    Free Member

    Yeah I read those too. You can see why I’m into the spectral. Pretty contrasting reviews! Honestly don’t know what possessed me to get the AM. Think I read that bike radar review afterwards though.

    If it’s the HA and design then not much I can do about those by the sounds of it.

    Definitely going to consider the tyre choices. I could get those and see how it feels and have a spare set if I still wanted to sell. The review of the spectral said that could benefit from a maxx terra on the front as well to help speed it up so perhaps that could help.

    Don’t think I’ll be able to make any substantial savings on the wheels without spending a lot. By all accounts the E13’s are good though. Maybe the DT are slightly better. Not sure about weight difference.

    jjprestidge
    Free Member

    I think a much cheaper option would be to do the following with your Meta:

    Stick some lighter tyres on
    Pump them up more than usual
    Pump up your fork and shock more than usual
    Ride faster/steeper/jumpier trails

    JP

    dmishka
    Free Member

    😉 sounds worth a try thanks

    whatyadoinsucka
    Free Member

    @dmishka
    I had a aluminium spectral 7.0 ex (150mm pike/140 rear, 1×11 sram) 2016 I think, before the 2018 newer models launched..
    It actually came with a 32t and 11-42 cassette, which just wasn’t enough for uphill, even with a 30t it still felt an absolute slog uphill..
    /\ I like to attack an uphill.

    You want a playful do it all bike?
    look no further than a 5010, as always recommend your favourite bike ;0)
    I test rode a bronson last week for 4 hours at glen trees and it felt dead at points, too easy and soaked it all up (could be useful for bigger days) and climbed no were near as well as a 5010, hence I’ll stick to what I’ve got

    dmishka
    Free Member

    Yeah I’ve always had a soft spot for Santa Cruz. When I first got into riding they always had the coolest bikes. I’ll definitely think about it but to match build kits they soon get out of my price range sadly.

    russyh
    Free Member

    So looking at the spec, if it were me.. I would replace the rear tyre with something that rolls faster. Try a semi slick at this time of year. You will be suprised how well they brake and grip the trail and amazed how it makes a bike feel much more spritely. Then looking at the wheels, you could lose some weight from those. Which would have a marked improvement as well. However are you running tubes or are you now tubeless? If running tubes try converting to tubeless. In my experience it lightens the feel of the tyre also. That said there is no getting away from the bikes intended purpose. It is what it is, but I really think with some little tweaks you won’t get it far away from the spectral

    weeksy
    Full Member

    2 similar spec bikes are unlikely to be night and day better/worse, but they can be completely different to ride, not necessarily in a good way for you. You won’t know until you try. I’ve ridden bikes i should have loved and hated, like a Kona Process 153 for example, then bikes that maybe shouldn’t have been great like a Bionicon Super Shuttle, i thought were brilliant.

    However, the 2 you’ve listed above, you won’t suddenly go 30sec per km quicker, or indeed 30s per km slower, it will be minor, marginal.

    IMO, unless you have issues, just ride the bike you own already. Spare wheels with light fast tyres, that’s it… save some money, have some fun.

    dmishka
    Free Member

    Ok thanks all. I’ll look at an aggressor or SS on the rear and will probably get a Maxx Terra on the front then. Will convert to tubeless as well.

    My last questions would be if anyone has any recommendations on wheel upgrades? Is carbon the only worthwhile option? Most carbon wheelset’s look insanely expensive so are there any alternatives that would be worth getting over the E13’s?

    Never asked about suspension setup as well but this is probably quite complicated. One guy tested the Spectral with the rear set to Medium and said it improved it so could try that as a simple test.

    I’m moving back to Shropshire soon so will speak to Trailhead about everything before jumping into stuff. Will try and get a test-ride of the Canyon if I can as well just to be sure. If I do still want to sell, a few more months down the line won’t affect the price much anyway.

    Again, really appreciate everyones feedback. A lot of sound advice.

    russyh
    Free Member

    So how have you set your suspension up. One thing I find can kill a longer travel bike is running the suspension too soft! If the bike sits too far in its travel if will slacken the head angle and lower the bb. What sag settings are you using? In terms of wheels. The e13 are a nice wheelset. But something like a set of stand arch on DT hubs would likely save you some weight. Coupled with tubeless and some lighter/faster rolling tyres I think you would considerably change the feel of the bike. If you sell the kit you take off you probably won’t find it too costly a change. Worth noting that it is changing the bike from an out and out ‘duro sled! But would be cheaper than selling and changing bike. I run a pair of DT Swiss XM1501 30’s on my Ibis Mojo and they are an excellent wheelset that sit in between stand flow and arch (IMO) but can be pricey. Alloy wheels are just as good as carbon and in many cases lighter and better!

    andytheadequate
    Free Member

    Personally, I wouldn’t bother with a wheel upgrade on a bike you’re not sure you like. Maybe try changing the tyres and fiddling with the suspension first, which is a relatively cheap way of doing it.

    weeksy
    Full Member

    Never asked about suspension setup as well but this is probably quite complicated. One guy tested the Spectral with the rear set to Medium and said it improved it so could try that as a simple test.

    I bought a Shockwiz, it’s transformed the bikes of all the guys who’ve tested it.

    Kamakazie
    Full Member

    I don’t think you will gain much from a wheel upgrade if they are the 1800g wheelset.
    You’ll save maybe 150g by upgrading to a top end alu wheelset like the XM1501.

    Lighter tires and working on your suspension setup as suggested above would be the best starting point.
    If you really feel like you want to increase the head angle (I really don’t think you will benefit from this) then you could use an angleset. But I’ seriously suggest test riding the trail version of your bike first to see if that would actually do something you want, because I think the geometry on what you have is a great setup for trail riding.

    dmishka
    Free Member

    hmm shockwiz looks high tech! Bit of investment though, think I’ll get the bike shop’s input on that when I go in. Don’t mind paying a bit to have their expertise. Sandy in Shrewsbury really knows his stuff apparently so I’ll be in good hands. I also think a wheel upgrade at this stage is a bit of a luxury. Should hopefully be able to see a difference with new tyres and a proper tune up by the sounds of it. Long-term though…. 🙂

    I’m afraid to say I have alot to learn about suspension set up russyh so not entirely sure. Think I’d need to get to the shop and really work it out, but i’ll watch a bunch of tutorials first to try and get my head around it. Interesting to hear what you say about sitting too far in the travel though, that could really help. Must say i’m getting pretty optimistic again after all this!

    andytheadequate
    Free Member

    Quite a few shops allow you to hire a shock wiz, I ended up getting one for a week for around 30 quid so a bit more reasonable than 300!

    Top tip when fiddling with suspension settings, make sure you write down your current ones, means you can always go back if you mess it up.

    dmishka
    Free Member

    Yeah that’s a good idea. Some reading to be done I reckon.

    weeksy
    Full Member

    Bird bikes do hire if them

    mildred
    Full Member

    Those tyres are big & heavy – swap them both & get rid of the tubes if they’re fitted.

    Though small weight loss at the wheels doesn’t sound like much, you’ll see more benefits whilst trail riding than any other situation. If you think of trail riding as just a load of slowing down then accelerating, this is when you notice a difference. If you were merely steady pace road or canal towpath riding then you wouldn’t notice much difference with a lighter wheels setup.

    Also, big sticky race tyres are exactly that – big & sticky. They’re designed to grip the surface on which you’re riding, thus creating more friction/drag etc. Fast rolling dual compound tyres are great this time of year. I also find tyre pressure has a big impact.

    As mentioned above, there’s not a lot between the bikes and I wouldn’t put much faith in the comparative magazine tests either – you’d need to try both yourself. There’s a lot you can try on your current bike before spending any big chunks of cash.

    dmishka
    Free Member

    Thanks Mildred, definitely seems to be the consensus here. Looking forward to trying out the changes, if I can get the meta set up the way I like I’ll be really happy because it’s an awesome machine.

    Actually overlaid the spectral over the top of the meta in photoshop (may as well put those skills to good use) and they’re almost identical! So you’d think the difference would be fine margins.

    dmishka
    Free Member

    ok thanks mate, something to consider. Love the brushed aluminium on the Race. Don’t think I’ll be hitting any drops like that yet! Hopefully I’ll do the bike justice after a while of riding it though.

    Just out of interest. Is there a way to upload images or do they have to be linked to the web somewhere?

    dmishka
    Free Member

    Just a quick update on this if anyone had the same issues as me. After riding the bike a lot more for a few months I have to say I love it. I guess it just took some time to get used to it.

    I did change one or two things. I got a 2.3 minion SS for the rear which was great for a while until it started raining so will probably switch that soon. I went tubeless and as a bit of a treat got my rims rebuilt onto DT Swiss 350’s with the 36t. I think that may have been unnecessary as I was enjoying the bike anyway but it set my mind at rest and have made it really awesome. The beetle juice look doesn’t hurt either.

    Bottom line is the bike is incredible and feels like it is capable of anything. All day rides, climbing, any kind of descent. It feels playful too the more I get used to it and build up my strength and endurance and a bit of a suspension tweak will help that as well.

    Basically if anyone has doubts about this bike, don’t. That probably goes for most enduro bikes as well, although I can’t say for sure, but it feels amazing to know you have a bike capable of almost any kind of riding you’d like to do.

    Thanks all for the input.

    joebristol
    Full Member

    For the winter a 2.3” dhr2 is pretty
    good – nowhere near as draggy as the 2.4” version.

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