seeking for poppy dh bike (frame)

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  • seeking for poppy dh bike (frame)
  • Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    Just run a bit more rebound.

    jam bo – Member
    Just run a bit more rebound.

    If you mean faster, didn’t you mean to say less?

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber
    tomasis
    Member

    re-edited re first post above..

    To tune shock is not enough. I think leverage/cinematics can give different ride.

    Im locked in bos suspensions as I ride it on enduro bike. it feels avesome. Never experienced before how it is to ride poppy bike.

    tomasis
    Member

    guys, please to post only if you know about kinematics and have experience of testing several bikes. In other words, Keep on topic, thanks.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    For optimal suspension performance:

    Add 3. psi to your tires, rub the shock with a dock leaf, make disparaging comments to the fork and only wear a knee pad on your left leg.

    tomasis
    Member

    Singletrack wellknown troll guy?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber


    I can only find rosey ones…

    Most of it will be to do with setup and the rider, a rider can make the bike pop. Take a look at the last couple of WC DH rounds and see what bikes pop and don’t (ie more to do with the rider than the bike)

    Not Euro I’m afraid but nothing I have ridden comes close to the Canfield Jedi for ride characteristics when it comes to hopping over / off all and every root and rock put in its way while still being able to soak up any you don’t manage to hop.

    Probably the only bike I would consider changing my V10 for.

    tomasis
    Member

    one_happy_hippy, thanks! At least a normal post!

    I heard good things about Canfield Jedi also. I wish I knew more suitable choices when it is silly season now (trading bike parts) 🙂

    tomasis
    Member

    Most of it will be to do with setup and the rider, a rider can make the bike pop. Take a look at the last couple of WC DH rounds and see what bikes pop and don’t (ie more to do with the rider than the bike)

    I think plowable bikes are good for wc. I just wanna have more fun and I wont blame Gwin because he won two seasons on a poppy bike 🙂

    Riding techniques is not the whole part. I just wanna to choose a frame that I ride in a few years. I dont think I wanna buy a pig in sack.

    nick1962
    Member

    I dont think I wanna buy a pig in sack.

    Are you sure,they can be quite cute .

    I always found faux-bar/single pivot frames more “poppy” than those with a VPP linkage

    tomasis
    Member

    David, good tip! I will look into that. I like idea of owning Single pivot bike. I guess I have to go through files in Linkage X3 app.

    Labyrinth Minotaur looks sweet.

    tomasis
    Member

    Hey!

    Im looking to build a poppy bike.

    If i wanna build plow through bike, I would pick a used Banshee Legend already since Im riding Sunday currently. I need larger size to replace the current frame so Ive to look for a slightly used or new at almost half price .

    Euro bike brand is what I would look for. I love Labyrinth Minotaur or a german engineered Reichmann (forgot name exactly) but they are a bit too high priced for me.

    Im looking at Commencal. It seems sturdy enough nowadays. Did anybody tried this with Bos Void air and could give impressions of that?

    For me it is hard to know what kind of bike frame give poppy riding feeling and im looking for your inputs. I heard Trek Session is good at that.

    Im going upgrade to Void air and Rare coil to replace Zocchi which seems not working properly.

    Im open for any suggestions, links to bargain deals.

    tomasis
    Member

    nick1962, thats cute pig. 🙂

    tomasis
    Member

    thats odd frame, hm. herb 204

    description from website

    “This characteristics gives you a better feeling for the bike and the ground, allowing to push through wobbles and to jump easily. We think the main suspension characteristics should be a result of the kinematics and not of the shock. “

    Some engineers think like me 🙂

    tomasis
    Member

    it reminds me of new scott gambler as well.

    link to gambler

    it offers good price for the whole bike (gambler 30) but im lazy to take apart off and sell parts, hm.

    I save this frame as backup plan B. :p

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    I’ve got a Herb DH frame hung up in the garage waiting to get sold, but, tbh it’s not what you’re after- the suspension starts out linear and soft then changes to progressive after the first part of the stroke, so it’s incredibly ground-hugging. Which is fantastic to ride, the grip is absurd, but kind of the exact opposite of poppy. I replaced it because it’s really for going very fast, and I’m not that quick 😉 So I got a 224 which is a fair bit slower almost all the time but more fun.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    59timesthepain wrote:

    I always found faux-bar/single pivot frames more “poppy” than those with a VPP linkage

    Yep, it’s normal at first, but if you change the way you ride the VPP can be poppy and jumpy too, watching some of the top guys riding VPP they still pop off everything when/if they want to same as watching the guys on single pivot keeping wheels down and “ploughing” through

    mildred
    Member

    As you mentioned, check linkage and look for bikes with a less rearward axle path and a rising rate suspension characteristic. That is, one that ramps up earlier.

    I’m currently riding a Lapierre Spicy as my do-it-all and that seems very ‘Poppy’ indeed. So much so that when I go deep into the travel it seems to fire it forward when it’s extending the shock; it feels like it’s making speed out of the terrain. I’ve always found a good single pivot does that too.

    My DH bike is a Nicolai Helius ST but with a BOS Vip’r rear shock. I don’t like too ground hugging bikes, which was also a reason I got rid of my Last Herb DH (potentially similar feelings that Northwind has). It has a mildy rising rate but coupled with the Bos shock, is very well supported in the midstroke with a nice ramp up in the final 3rd that makes it feel bottomless and ‘Poppy’, whilst still be supremely controlled due to the Bos damping. I never have the bouncing me off the pedals or over the bars feeling, yet can still easily lift and shift the bike around without the feeling that I’m uncoiling the back end before it lifts.

    bigrich
    Member

    I’ve got a 2009 glory that ploughs a furrow and smashes things out of the way. probably not what you’re after.

    iolo
    Member

    I’ve got a specialized hotrock.
    You’d love it. It sounds exactly like what you want.

    tomasis
    Member

    As you mentioned, check linkage and look for bikes with a less rearward axle path and a rising rate suspension characteristic. That is, one that ramps up earlier.

    I’m currently riding a Lapierre Spicy as my do-it-all and that seems very ‘Poppy’ indeed. So much so that when I go deep into the travel it seems to fire it forward when it’s extending the shock; it feels like it’s making speed out of the terrain. I’ve always found a good single pivot does that too.

    My DH bike is a Nicolai Helius ST but with a BOS Vip’r rear shock. I don’t like too ground hugging bikes, which was also a reason I got rid of my Last Herb DH (potentially similar feelings that Northwind has). It has a mildy rising rate but coupled with the Bos shock, is very well supported in the midstroke with a nice ramp up in the final 3rd that makes it feel bottomless and ‘Poppy’, whilst still be supremely controlled due to the Bos damping. I never have the bouncing me off the pedals or over the bars feeling, yet can still easily lift and shift the bike around without the feeling that I’m uncoiling the back end before it lifts.

    Indeed re Bos Vipr. I run Deville and VipR on Rune V2 frame (VPP). It feels good though it feels dead at lower speed but once I ride faster, the fun starts and I start to laugh. I did set +9 on rebound and made things in rides that I didnt before. Vipr encouraged me to go faster as it is confidence inspiring and like you said, I didnt get any close to over-bar accident or wobbley feeling. When it happens, relatively long 640mm reach saves me. At other thing, the shock follows small bump chatter still nicely.

    Interesting that you use that shock in dh frame. It is useful not only in enduro, I see. Doesnt it get heated? 🙂

    Your Spicy appears have Horst link, right? I remember when I ran Norco dh year 2002 with horst link ten years ago, it was very fun despite badly tuned fork. There was poppy feeling definitely though at that time I was noob and couldnt maximize the ride.

    It also explains little of physics re Horst link/Single pivot. When the rear linkage bounces back, it does more intensely due weight transfer in movement from main pivot. While VPP is good at anti squat and probably reacts milder in rebound so you had to do more in body language. I feel the same in Sunday dh frame which is so easy to ride through rocks or whatever. I got suggested to bump up coil spring strength in rear shock (300 to 325lbs). Rear axle plays a role too as you mentioned.

    What bummer about Last Herb, it looked nice. You said that it worked nicely with Bos, still you decided to sell this?

    Could you name a couple with typical a rising rate suspension of newer models?

    _tom_
    Member

    Poppy? Scott Voltage would do the job but probably not if you’re very tall. The short one is perfect for me at 5’9″.

    tomasis
    Member

    I’ve got a Herb DH frame hung up in the garage waiting to get sold, but, tbh it’s not what you’re after- the suspension starts out linear and soft then changes to progressive after the first part of the stroke, so it’s incredibly ground-hugging. Which is fantastic to ride, the grip is absurd, but kind of the exact opposite of poppy. I replaced it because it’s really for going very fast, and I’m not that quick So I got a 224 which is a fair bit slower almost all the time but more fun.

    Forgot that there are Orange dh bikes. It must be easy to find an used frame for good price in UK?

    tomasis
    Member

    I’ve got a 2009 glory that ploughs a furrow and smashes things out of the way. probably not what you’re after.

    Currently riding Sunday, the original. Giant is just a copy. Kidding, hihi

    tomasis
    Member

    Poppy? Scott Voltage would do the job but probably not if you’re very tall. The short one is perfect for me at 5’9″.

    it looks fun “mini” bike. How much does the frame weigh?

    I think i want relatively light frame, about same as Legend. Sub 4kg. And preferably long, reach 620mm or something. My height is 5″10

    _tom_
    Member

    It probably won’t suit then as it’s short and I think fairly heavy! My complete bike comes in at about 37lbs but could maybe be lightened up a bit as that’s with a heavy fork (55 RC3 – not the ti version) and heavy wheels (721 rims on Pro 2s).

    tomasis
    Member

    Yep, it’s normal at first, but if you change the way you ride the VPP can be poppy and jumpy too, watching some of the top guys riding VPP they still pop off everything when/if they want to same as watching the guys on single pivot keeping wheels down and “ploughing” through

    Pros adapt to it since they are sponsored. Im just a lazy amateur who relies on Bos magics, lol.

    tomasis
    Member

    Tom, as i could remember, my half brother and his girl ride Voltages. I might ask them to loan one of their bikes when I visit Sweden 🙂

    I think it wont work as Im looking for dh machine when I can do much with Rune V2, it is unbelievable. At headangle 63.5 youre covered.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    tomasis – Member

    Forgot that there are Orange dh bikes. It must be easy to find an used frame for good price in UK?

    I paid £500 for my Evo, in nice condition with a DHX4 and some extra bits (nb- for a 224 “nice condition” means “no cracks/repair welds”.)You can get a standard 224 or a scabby Evo for way less.

    Still, not entirely sure it’s what you’re after either. Can probably arrange to give you a shot on mine though at some point (though, it is sprung light as I weigh nowt so it won’t work for you if you’re bigger!)

    Premier Icon chrisdw
    Subscriber

    Canfield Bros Jedi

    Great fun.

    It was quite a long time ago now, but I’ve used a Turner DHR (older single pivot), Orange Patriot, Rocky Mountain RM7, Specialized Supercross, Santa Cruz VPfree and probably a few others all on the same jump (that I’d done hundreds of times). They all were ok, but the Santa Cruz seemed to suck all of the momentum away on the take off, I had to go faster to get the same height/distance. So I’m just putting that down to the fact it was a VPP frame.

    tomasis
    Member

    Northwind, im not that big 🙂 73kg/177cm. Id love try your frame some day 😀

    I think im looking for newer frames.

    Found some new on buy list

    Nukeproof Pulse singlepivot
    Guerilla Gravity (3.6kg not bad)

    your thoughts about those mentioned above?

    mildred
    Member

    Interesting that you use that shock in dh frame. It is useful not only in enduro, I see. Doesnt it get heated?

    Not that I’ve noticed – bear in mind an Enduro shock may well be getting hammered for 45+ minutes at say the Mega etc. I think the days of massive performance determination are gone with the newer generation of air shocks; Vip’r, CCDBA, Monarch plus etc. Also, you don’t find that many long DH tracks in the UK anyway.

    Your Spicy appears have Horst link, right? I remember when I ran Norco dh year 2002 with horst link ten years ago, it was very fun despite badly tuned fork. There was poppy feeling definitely though at that time I was noob and couldnt maximize the ride.

    I had a 2005/6 Norco A-Line that I was convinced was trying to kill me. Poppy can be fun but also not so much fun. It had a frankly **** Fox vanilla shock that i don’t think helped it any.

    What bummer about Last Herb, it looked nice. You said that it worked nicely with Bos, still you decided to sell this? Could you name a couple with typical a rising rate suspension of newer models?

    Never tried a Bos on the Last – it was a Dhx5 coil. Air shock on a Last may actually do what you want. That said, I found it really hard to set the damping on this bike – fast piste rides were good but when it went very deep into its travel it extended too quickly. The Bos works extremely well on my Nicolai.

    Sorry I can’t think of any off the top of my head but your best bet is to download linkage and start browsing the charts.

    hexhamstu
    Member

    I didn’t find my 224 evo very poppy at all. Good at being stable and fast though.

    slackalice
    Member

    Have you considered the Morewood Makulu?

    Euro
    Member

    I met a guy in the pub last night and we got chatting bikes and stuff, as you do. I noticed an aged sprocket tattoo on his arm and underneath it had some scripty style writing. It was hard to make out so i asked him what it said.

    The bar fell silent, he slowly set down his pint and his expression changed as a shadow of seriousness fell over it. As he twisted his arm to give me a closer look he gruffly whispered ‘bikes aren’t poppy – riders are’.

    goodgrief
    Member

    I want this forum to have a “like” button just for Euro’s post

    tomasis
    Member

    Not that I’ve noticed – bear in mind an Enduro shock may well be getting hammered for 45+ minutes at say the Mega etc. I think the days of massive performance determination are gone with the newer generation of air shocks; Vip’r, CCDBA, Monarch plus etc. Also, you don’t find that many long DH tracks in the UK anyway.

    I had a 2005/6 Norco A-Line that I was convinced was trying to kill me. Poppy can be fun but also not so much fun. It had a frankly **** Fox vanilla shock that i don’t think helped it any.

    Never tried a Bos on the Last – it was a Dhx5 coil. Air shock on a Last may actually do what you want. That said, I found it really hard to set the damping on this bike – fast piste rides were good but when it went very deep into its travel it extended too quickly. The Bos works extremely well on my Nicolai.

    Sorry I can’t think of any off the top of my head but your best bet is to download linkage and start browsing the charts.

    yeah im going to do re linkage app but a bit busy atm. I heard that some files are not accurate due photo mapping. I ask around mfg for leverage rate curve diagrams.

    Your remark about norco aline made me smile. I felt same, i couldnt never get 100% on bike then lost interest a bit.

    I see that air shocks have gone far in development. I still have norco dh frame that has 160mm mode. Why not try Vipr then 🙂

    So far i think ~Guerilla Gravity looks as hottest candidat. Anybody knows how much I pay for import taxes here in UK for 1800$ worth frame?

    tomasis
    Member

    Knolly Podium looks interesting as well.

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