Seeing damage being done by riders

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  • Seeing damage being done by riders
  • 5thElefant
    Member

    Does it actually matter?

    Yes – you end up with huge eroded scars many metres wide. I have seen it happen

    5thElefant
    Member

    So? Trails have always done that. It’s in their nature.

    Would you like to concrete the banks of rivers to keep them nice and straight and narrow?

    GW
    Member

    @ TJ – ..and does that matter?

    Premier Icon Pook
    Subscriber

    It matters if the damage leads to conflict with the national park authority who then block access

    andy7t2
    Member

    The next step is bound to be bikes being banned from the paths

    gonna take a change in the law to ban bikes on bridleway, what they will do is make it smooth so it’s not interesting enough to ride

    Premier Icon Pook
    Subscriber

    You also end up with crap trails cos people can’t ride over some rocks.

    Do you want trails to degenerate to huge eroded scars? Look ruddy ugly

    GW
    Member

    so do you but you insist on posting pics of your lovely hair 😛

    Ambrose
    Member

    Yes it really does matter. If society didn’t think so then large amounts of time, money and effort would not be spent upon putting in measures to rectify and/ or prevent trail damage, be it by feet, hooves or wheels.

    In my opinion not addressing the issue is short sighted. Considering that it is not worth addressing is worse.

    Sustainable is the word we need to use.

    5thElefant
    Member

    Do you want trails to degenerate to huge eroded scars? Look ruddy ugly

    Are they technically interesting huge eroded scars?

    Premier Icon Pook
    Subscriber

    For mother’s day I went out for a walk with my mum, bro and girlfriend in an area that has heavy mountain bike use.

    Walking up, I couldn’t help but notice that the path we were on, a path I have ridden for years (and which has always been about 2m at it’s widest) over winter has just got wider and wider, primarily around the puddles, but then, as we got higher up the hillside, around the rocks too.

    The gravelly, gritstone, hard wearing main path, with its warts and all rocks poking through is now completely overshadowed by the trampled heather/peat smooth route down the side.

    As we carried on, a group of about ten riders came down, completely avoiding what I know as the designated path, instead riding bunched up on the smooth peaty bit with all the skidding and sliding that riding too close and too fast entails.

    What can be done to stop this? The next step is bound to be bikes being banned from the paths because of the damage they are causing.

    Fences along the path? Strategically placed rocks? Printed notes at each end?

    tazzymtb
    Member

    unfortunately there is large majority of riders/bikers/ramblers that are completely ignorant (or they just don’t give a toss) of the potential impact their past time can have on the environment that they enjoy being in. I think some of it may be down to the sheep like trail centre mentality where you just follow the wheel marks of others, so if someone rides wide or cuts a corner the herd follow and snakey singletrack paths become great galumphing choss pits

    allthepies
    Member

    completely ignorant (or they just don’t give a toss)

    See posts above for evidence.

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
    Subscriber

    Are they technically interesting huge eroded scars?

    Not in this case – we’re talking WLT in the Peak, no?

    thepodge
    Member

    we’re talking a lot of places unto the peak, wlt and north America are both examples of this.

    it got nob all to do with trail centres, I think its the huge increase of bikers. a large chunk of whom don’t have the skill or care to ride over / through, they are just out to get some fresh air etc.

    my girlfriend often rides round rocks or puddles no matter how many times I tell her not to but she’d prefer to stay clean and not risk falling of. for her and I expect many other leisure cyclists it’s not something they really consider much.

    I’ve often stopped and dug out the side of puddles to let them drain but I think we just have to accept that things will look a mess and then they’ll get re surfaced.

    jon rambo
    Member

    Kill all the sheep! They’re the one’s to blame for the mass erosion of tracks, and then ban everybody from going on by putting 20ft high barbed wire fences up and never use the country side again! Dam ice age was to blame for eroding it last time!!! I feel so guilty i’m never guna ride my bike on a footpath again, im off to church now to ask for forgiveness! Huh 🙁

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    im off to church now to ask for forgiveness

    wot tyres for the graveyard?

    there’s no place for beginners or people wanting to ride “to get some fresh air” or people who don’t want to fall off in cycling dammit! anyone wanting to take up riding should ask permission from people who have never caused a single bit of erosion first, then follow all the rules set out by these magical non-eroding people that dont exist.

    beginners shouldn’t be allowed out in nature fullstop!

    hell lets ban fat people from riding as the friction they cause will be greater than skinny people on the trails.

    tarmac should be the only surface people are allowed to ride on and fences higher than the sun should be erected either side of the tarmac to ensure nobody strays from the approved path.

    i’ll be running for president of nature soon, who wants to vote for me?

    EarnestTrackWorld strikes again!

    TheBrick
    Member

    And people wonder why the world is in such a state with attitudes like this are so prevalent.

    Premier Icon BigJohn
    Subscriber

    It amuses me that all these gnarly off-road riders, who boast of revelling in all conditions, will do anything to avoid riding through a puddle.

    I admit that if I clean my bike (altho tha ardly hever appens) the next ride I might ride round a bit of mud.

    Ironically, the centre of a puddle often has the firmest base. So put on mudguards and sealskin socks and stop widening the trails.

    mansonsoul
    Member

    Maybe access rights for cyclists should be opened up to reduce the concentration of riders on the trails, spreading the erosion out, thus reducing it?

    ocrider
    Member

    It amuses me that all these gnarly off-road riders, who boast of revelling in all conditions, will do anything to avoid riding through a puddle.

    This. I revel in riding through puddles myself. It’s one of the best bits about mountain biking: Getting wet and filthy and not caring about the state of you.

    Mansonsoul, I like your thinking.

    rocketman
    Member

    I think the whole erosion thing is blown out of all proportion.

    You want to see some erosion? Go to Wales and look at the 5m-wide track a farmer has put up the hillside. Should it bother us? No – it’s his land, his sheep, we are priviledged to be able to walk/cycle there. Or get caught in a storm on a hillside and watch the whole thing landslide down into the valley – that’s erosion, not some little track that’s a bit wider than it used to be.

    Keva
    Member

    erode more land over a longer period of time you mean ?

    People should just ride where the trail goes. I’m fed up with the trails in my local woods getting wider and wider because some can’t even roll over a couple of tree roots.

    Kev

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
    Subscriber

    Well, when everyone’s finished being sanctimonious and self righteous and theatrical, I’d have thought that riding inevitably causes trail damagw, but in cases like Whinstone Lee Tor, where there’s a relatively durable, but tricky rocky line flanked by soft moorland, which gets chewed up easily, it’s arguably about finding a way of educating riders to stay on the line in an unobtrusive way.

    The Peak Park already does some great work with dog owners – Paws On The Moors – and has a code of conduct for 4x4s and trail riders, maybe it’s time for them along with the mtb media and mountain bikers generally to look at ways of encouraging riders to behave in a sustainable way on the trails.

    That could mean a mountain biking code, leafleting, educational notices at the bottom of vulnerable trails and maybe subtle trail improvements in strategic places to guide riders back onto the more sustainable line.

    Some of that smacks of awful big brotherism and part of me just thinks screw it, no thanks. And the bigger picture might be that if access were opened up, there’d be less traffic on a relatively small number of bridleways, but I’d rather see some sort of educational campaign designed to change riders’ behaviour, than wholesale trail repairs that change the character of the riding.

    There’s a few practical things you can do. Where I see lines being redrawn to avoid the established path I often place a few smooth branches parallel with the direction of travel on the new line, amazing how quickly it steers people back onto line, same with the odd few logs here and there. Before anyone gets on the high horse I don’t block trails people have built but where it’s obvious lines are being widened to avoid mud or the odd root there is a fair bit you can do to encourage people back onto the trail. In the same way stopping to do a bit to help a pool drain away is a good idea.

    yunki
    Member

    you would have thought that just some gentle education and a few words of advice on a popular forum would be enough.. maybe not though..

    liscensing for off-road cyclists..?
    It sounds heinous and big brother like and I had never in my wildest nightmares envisioned the situation ever getting this dire..

    but after reading some of the blinkered and selfish responses on here it’s plain to see that as the popularity of MTB is increasing.. so it appears, are the number of ignorant and arrogant morons who, even when faced with the voice of reason and experience refuse to acknowledge that there may be an issue..

    the sneering and cat-calling like tory back-benchers.. especially from folk organising large scale forum rides is sickening.. what a rude and depressing awakening on this beautiful sunny morning.. as I contemplate a ride later.. in the National Park that I live in..

    yes mtb is a beautiful and wholesome past time.. but it does come with responsibilities..

    sickening? because its plainly obvious that my posts on this thread so far have been serious?

    if it helps lower your blood pressure then rest assured that i ride through what’s in front of me, mud, puddles, rocks… i’m a considerate rider thank you. but if mrsconsequence chose a slightly wider line because she’s not confident that the puddle in front of her will not contain something that might cause her to hurt herself then who am i to judge her?

    i’m at risk of taking this forum too seriously, might check back on the thread later but for now i’m off to daydream about riding this evening.

    thepodge
    Member

    joolsburger, not too many branches about in the middle of the Peak but a good idea / point all the same. I’ve done similar up at Wharncliffe and it does seem to make a difference.

    Premier Icon Shackleton
    Subscriber

    Any trail used by any person for on foot/bike/horse/etc. causes trail damage/erosion.

    Does this mean all trail users should:

    1) just shrug and ignore the fact and let it turn into an eroded motorway with all the visual, sociological, ecological and geological impacts that result.

    or

    2) act to minimise the impact of our actions to help provide trails that will last, won’t be as much of an eyesore, keep land managers happy, protect possibly vulnerable ecological areas and annoy other trail users less?

    Are some peoples heads so up their own arses that option 1 is better than option 2?

    thepodge
    Member

    I still think a Peaks Pootle trail maintenance ride is a good idea.

    I was thinking it would be hard to find branches in the peaks I expect the rocks are mostly not for moving either…

    Ecky-Thump
    Member

    Am I missing something?
    Rode WLT a couple of weeks ago and it didn’t look badly eroded to me.
    A single short patch of “creep” near the top of the steeper bit if memory serves me corrrectly. Certainly no worse than a popular footpath frequented by large numbers of walkers.

    For the vast majority of its length, its still a cracking piece of singletrack.

    Pieface
    Member

    To the OP – was this the bridleway to Whinstone Lee Tor?

    I agree that there are too many ‘mincers’ that ride round the rough bits. I think the worst that will happen with that particular trail is that wooden / wire fences will be put up (similar to those at the junction of hope cross / jaggers clough / blackley hay). Most likely though is that the natural line will drift to one side or the other and the ‘less ridden line’ will revert to grass.

    I walked up this path the other week and was surprised by the number of bikers, however the numbers are probably typical of other bridleways in the area.

    GW
    Member

    Puddles? oh that old arguement? riding through puddles robs you of momentum! **** that I say! I’ll ride round them every time if there’s a faster hardpack alternative, jump them if there’s a suitable take off, simply hop small/medium ones and for large ones that are surounded by soft tyre grabby mud I find it best to manual through them if possible.

    The Earth was clearly designed (by nature or your god if you’re that deluded) to erode and evolve whether from the weather, natural acts or by humans/animals, scars are par for the course. Most tral centres I’ve been to have trails built on existing natural tracks that were there way before mtbers rode them. is Glentress for example regarded as a network of huge ugly scars?

    People should just ride where the trail goes. I’m fed up with the trails in my local woods getting wider and wider because some can’t even roll over a couple of tree roots.

    They’re not your local woods tho are they? And who are you to insidt on where the trail goes? Buy you’re own woods, fence them off and make up as many rules as you want if that’ll satisfy your anal need for control! 😉

    DWH
    Member

    So what’s worse? A group of ten infrequent riders going “off the line” a bit on their monthly trip to the Peak District or me riding almost every day “on the line” but still causing erosion?

    How much erosion is allowable? Should we be issued with “erosion permits”? Can I use my wife’s “erosion allowance”? Should there be an “erosion trading market” where frequent flyers riders buy permits from the more sedentary?

    Maybe the Peak Park Authority should take “at risk” or “vulnerable” trails into care?

    It’s all bollocks isn’t it? If you’re out there doing it then you’re part of the problem (if there is a problem) – it’s just a matter of degree.

    GW
    Member

    Oh.. the guilt! I’m off to scrub my tyres and then back to my local woods to replace the mud I stole earlier.

    Premier Icon Pook
    Subscriber

    Id argue the peak authority does take trails into care, then people moan about trail sanitisation. I must admit I’m surprised at the response to this thread, not for the piss taking name calling posts, but from the blinkered and short sightedness of many on here.

    Yes I’m talking about wlt. Somewhere I, as a beginner, learned how to ride over rocks.

    I can see it one day getting either fenced in, or sanitised. I think staying on the gritstone is a small price to pay to avoid that.

    A peaks pootle maintenance day? I’d have to have a chat with the NPA but I like the idea.

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