Some thoughts and views please

Chatting with a work colleague whos been a leader for years, but about to give it up, along with three others from his group, due to declining standards of behaviour from the kids.

Not the kids with diagnosed behavioural issues, just the constant inability of a significant minority to stand still, be quiet and listen. The constant disruption to meetings that actually stop the kids getting on and doing the good stuff, and the backchat and attitude when you try and sanction the kids, and the grief from parents if they feel little Billy is being given a hard time.

We’re of the view that we would happily kick disruptive kids out and make space for those on the waiting list who want to engage, and call out the poor behaviour and lack of parental support if challenged, but there seems to be a reluctance to actually support that from groups. One of the aims of Scouting/Guiding has to be turn out kids with some self control and sense of responsibility surely?

Just wondering what others views and experience is of this? His group is losing volunteers over it, it’s a reason I don’t help on unit nights regularly, sure we’re not the only ones.

I’m a parent.

Our leader is a right old battle axe …. brilliant….I’d back her every time if my lad misbehaved.

The other side of that is, it’s literally her way or the high way.

The lad’s football training now clashes with cubs, she’ll not allow one week on one off. Fair enough I say (the Mrs thinks differently) it’s her group, she’s been there for years and will be after we move on.

The point being, do what you think is right for the good of the group as a whole.

Good luck

Edit … I’m not sure it has to be group wide (although I can see why it makes sense for it to be) in contrast to Mrs Donttakenocr4p the Beaver leader was like a wet flannel, drove me crazy that she’d not control them. While, I believe, the scout leader is again more relaxed

I’m a Cub and Scout leader. Generally behaviour is good but we have the odd occasion where it isn’t.

At Cubs we stand the naughty kids in the anti-room for a few minutes, but if it happens on a regular basis (3 strikes) we call the parents in and explain exactly why they have been excluded for part of the session. We also say that we are not cheap childcare and invite them to volunteer to join us as we need all the help we can get with disruptive kids.

We get very few repeat offenders 😉

We had one incidense a few years back when a parent reported us to “District”, who turned up the week later and witnessed the kid being a nightmare and backed us up. He left to join another group where a relative was a Leader and the same thing happened again.

Never had any real issue with Scouts as they have all been through Cubs and know the score. Also, if they start cocking about they tend to sort it out amongst themselves, after we tell them that they are just wasting their own time.

Boys Brigade volunteer here, leading all our DofE.

It is a growing issue in my experience. I think children are both under exercised, over stimulated mentally and with the amount of sugar some of them consume, and they rarely practice ‘boredom’ or listening.

There are a growing number of parents and children who want every right without responsibility. We’ve got the balance wrong here.

That said, I weekly see volunteers try to set up activities and sessions that involve to much sitting and listening. I use a few activity cards / challenges to cut down how long I speak for.

You also can’t change the world by telling children to do something – you have to change your behaviour and routines. I notice things like Junior BB’s overrunning means that the older boys spend 10 minutes getting hyped up messing around stuck in a waiting corridor. The simple change to focusing on finishing on time, getting the lads on calmly and purposefully can change the whole evening.

We’ve now hugely cut back on sugar at canteen / snack time.

The other thing we’ve done is insist that all parents volunteer once a year. They then get to see wee Jimmy muck around in front of them…

When I was a cub anyone who was naughty got a bollocking from Bagheera. He was a very nice man but also highly skilled in the art of issuing a bollocking.

So I would suggest your Bagheera needs to up his game.

Cubs, so a different age group, new leadership team did a rules session to reset expectations from both sides, the kids had lots of ideas on what the rules should be and what was not acceptable. Seems to be working, the parents do seem fully behind the leaders though so this may be your issue. Stick to your principles.

We have a few who do one week on, one week off, to be fair. We know how difficult it can be with conflicting interests.

It would be better for the group if we started bouncing the bad apples – one lad got hauled up and with parents onside who supported us has turned himself round. There just seems to be a reluctance to upset kids and parents, but we have a waiting list that would double our numbers if we could take them on, we don’t need time wasters.

We have a couple with genuine issues who need one on one support, but we don’t seem to get the balance right regarding other kids

Should have made clear I’m looking at this as a group issue, though biggest concerns are with Cubs. Beavers get a little more slack, Scouts get maybe get dealt with by peer pressure from the older ones with the four year age spread?

Good points about wider issues and timekeeping!

Parent helper here (it was you lot that inspired me to get involved as well as an ace local troop)

Our Leaders don’t stand any nonsense. Three strikes and your out. It’s a respect issue to the leaders/vols as well as the well behaved kids.

One or two bad apples can’t be allowed to dominate however you need kids to be individuals.

It’s a tricky balance but I couldn’t/wouldn’t be a vol if the leaders ran it any other way. Friday nights are precious but I’m happy to give as long as the kids want to be there and take good stuff away from the sessions. It’s certainly easier getting them outside and being physically active after a week of school.

We have a few who do one week on, one week off

Our leader will not allow this because of one

a waiting list

It’s not fair on those on that list

And two she believes having kids dropping in and out makes it hard for her to plan and is generally disruptive.

I agree with her on both points

To me football will always be there but cubs is an all too brief but brilliant window.

Scout leader here for about a year and a half. Ours are generally pretty good, sometimes it’s tough to get them pay attention or focus, but I’ve put that down to their age. It’s been a learning curve, especially as I don’t have any children so hadn’t picked up many ‘young people’ skills previously.

Our Leaders don’t stand any nonsense. Three strikes and your out.

What counts as ‘nonsense’?

What counts as ‘nonsense’?

Backchat and distruptive baviour with us. Any violence and you are gone.

Once a year we have a session where we make them write their own Code of Conduct (last night as it happens) which they all agree to. This is then put on the noticeboard and referred to when necessary.

Here’s a good one for dealing with the more “lively” ones. See how long they can stand still with their woggles balanced on their heads.

Works a treat.

Im not a leader, but my kids are in Beavers and Cubs (both due to be Cubs). The leader in Beavers much like what Ro5ey says it a bot of a battleaxe, but actually a very chilled person when you get to know her, you can see why she has the look when you see some kids. I voluntee on some weekends when i can (weekdays are imposible due to work), and im always shocked at some kids behaviour, but then pleasantly surprised by others. I used to “instruct” in the ACF, there it was a lot easier to discipline, but the one thing we could not get around was poor attnedance and what that did to planning lessons etc.. So i agree with what’s been said – 3 strikes and off you go. No picking and choosing days you turn up. and parents should be told to butt out..

There’s a massive waiting list in my area, i think it’s about 3 years, so the scouts can and should be selective with who they let in.

Cheers for the thoughts so far, keep it coming

Got an Exec meeting next week with a new chair so I think there may some new ways of approaching some of the issues the group has. Was just trying to get wider views. We are a successful group in a district that struggles aka the posher part of a rough area.

Wife’s Guide unit is at risk of folding, 3 leaders all struggling with work and family commitments in one of the poorest parts of the district, risk losing an amazing source of opportunities for a group of girls with otherwise limited chances

My sister got kicked out of Explorer Scouts about 15 years ago for being a pain in the hoop with the leaders. It has to make things better for everyone when disruptive kids aren’t allowed back.

Nonsense = Anything that disrupts the fun of Scouts for the majority I guess. You have kids with issues but Scouts isn’t a cheap baby sitting service so they need to learn dissapline and how to fit into the troop. Characters are great and to be encouraged as it makes a kid individual but IMHO there must be a time when they know to tow the line and do as they are told.
Anything disruptive or rude/lazy around the flag is stamped on. I’d guess it’s easier to do with Scouts than Beavers or Cubs. My youngest is about to go up to Cubs but I’m lacking in patience to help there.

Used to volunteer, then ran a Beaver group for a while (un-trained). Great but hard work, and very difficult to get parent’s to help. Rewarding work, but exhausting.

Cub Scouts etc do some great activities that otherwise you’d not get to do because of ‘risks’. Climbing, scrambling, open fires… One of the best moments was when one of the kids with severe learning difficulties did the ‘leap of faith’, about 50 foot up a climbing cube – you’d not get me up there. I’d known the kid from a frail child in Beavers all the way through into Scouts – he ‘made it’ all the way through.

Scout leader here, we tend to use a mix of stopping what we’re doing til they notice their behaviour has interrupted us, raised voices and ultimate sanction of time out in the Denis if an individual is too disruptive.

It helps that our programme includes their input for activities, so we always make clear that they are wasting their time.

We also try a mix of gentle ribbing- one lad that always flossed when the pack was called together has now been named Flossie.

Do notice a big change in behaviour when we’ve been on camp, they do get into the routine a lot better than the 2 hrs on the week.

I did it for about 5 years.

I left because I would have ended up punching one/more of the little shits.

LOL @russianbob