Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 196 total)
  • scottish sectarianism
  • Premier Icon TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    seosamh77 – Member
    IRA songs, I sing them myself and make no apology for it.

    That makes you a sectarian bigot. You need to understand a bit of the history. This not a harmless folk song

    Premier Icon CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    When TJ and I agree, you know it’s right.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    That makes you a sectarian bigot. You need to understand a bit of the history. This not a harmless folk song

    No it doesn’t and i’m comfotable enough in my knowledge of the history, hardly an expert, but i’ve a grasp of it and continually learning.

    Please tell how does singing a song, for example the boys of the old brigade or the broad black brimmer make me a sectarian bigot? you’ll find the words online via a google search, go on explain it to me.

    Premier Icon poly
    Free Member

    seosamh77 – on this point:

    “I actually find the argument that catholic secondary schools are pointless as the religious education is barely evident, optional and most choose people not to partake in it by 2nd year far more compelling,”

    We can agree! Although I believe the level of education/instruction varies from school to school. In some cases so-called non-denominational schools are actually more actively pushing religious instruction (singing, praying, bible studies etc) harder than catholic schools! Whilst RE as a subject learning about all religions is optional (although I think many schools will still have a small compulsory element as part of their moral/citizenship type programmes); and almost every school in Scotland will have some sort of Christmas and Easter Service whilst many will still have some sort of ad hoc religious services/assemblies. Whilst participation at these has an “opt out” on parents, the choice to do so is in effect ear marking your child as a “minority” so they sit segregated from their peers along with the other minorities (Jews, Muslims, Jehovahs etc) – doing nothing particularly constructive with their time.

    I am however rather intrigued by your closing remark. So you recognise there is almost no significant difference between what goes on in Scottish Catholic and Scottish Non-denominational schools from either a religious or a pedagogy perspective – why then do you think it is a good thing to segregate primary school pupils according to beliefs that at the age of 5 they almost certainly can’t have properly considered and evaluated on their own?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    You don’t have to be a bigot to sing the songs, sometimes it suffices to be a sh*tehawk.

    Premier Icon TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Its about the symbology. I suppose you might simply be ignorant. However as you claim not to be you must be a bigot.

    Premier Icon TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Well I have just googled the songs and read the words. A celebration of the armed rebellion, killing of British Soldiers and murder with in the broad black brimmer a threat to take up arms again in vengeance.

    Nice

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    Its about the symbology. I suppose you might simply be ignorant. However as you claim not to be you must be a bigot.

    Why>?

    Definition of bigot:
    A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.

    Go and look at the songs I mentions, where specifically does that apply?

    I sing and listen to IRA and traditional Irish songs(I don’t deferentiate btw) as it opens up to me a part of what I believe is my heritage and helps me understand some history which was never taught to me via main stream outlets, there is no intolerance of others or prejudice, yes i believe Ireland should be one country, I believe scotland should be independent, these things do not make me a bigot.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    Well I have just googled the songs and read the words. A celebration of the armed rebellion, killing of British Soldiers and murder with in the broad black brimmer a threat to take up arms again in vengeance.

    Nice
    so what you now calling the entire free state bigots?

    Premier Icon stanfree
    Free Member

    As I said earlier on , depsite despising both sides of the Old Firm I think they should both be aloud to sing what they want during the course of the 90 minutes . God knows Scotland football is boring enough without stopping chanting between fans , If they were aloud to sing as they pleased they wouldn’t spend have there lives bitching about each other on Football talk shows.

    Premier Icon CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    I think they should both be aloud to sing what they want during the course of the 90 minutes

    I don’t.

    Freedom of speech is fine, but inciting hatred is not.

    Premier Icon Futureboy
    Free Member

    Btw where have i denied anything about IRA songs, I sing them myself and make no apology for it.

    Bigot or idiot.

    (A protestant who supports Dundee United…the “supposed” catholic team in Dundee)

    Premier Icon TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    I have no idea how to explain this to you.

    The two songs you mention are a symbol of the sectarianism of the Old Firm. They celebrate the murders of UK citizens and threaten more.

    They are used as a way of asserting a cultural identity that is not a part of the UK and indeed is a celebration of the enemies of the UK .

    They are used to threaten non catholics.

    Edit – In the Irish republic (not the free state FFS) the context is different but they are still hardly nice sentiments.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    Bigot or idiot.

    (A protestant who supports Dundee United…the “supposed” catholic team in Dundee)
    The ignorance of the irish struggle is astounding at times, what religion has to do with the IRA i don’t know.

    (A non religious celtic fan, with a protestant mother and a catholic father, not that that matters but since you brought it up.)

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    I have no idea how to explain this too you.

    The two songs you mention are a symbol or the sectarianism of the Old Firm. They celebrate the murders of UK citizens and threaten more.

    They are used as a way of asserting a cultural identity that is not a part of the UK and indeed is a celebration of the enemies of the UK .

    They are used to threaten non catholics.You should read up a bit more..you have no idea how to explain it because you don’t know what you are talking about.

    Premier Icon Futureboy
    Free Member

    The ignorance of the irish struggle is astounding at times

    What the Irish struggle has to do with a game of football….i don’t know?

    Premier Icon TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    seosamh77

    I suggest you should – your ignorance is breathtaking as is your naivety.

    The ignorance of the irish struggle is astounding at times, what religion has to do with the IRA i don’t know.

    Murder of Protestants for being protestant?

    I have no ideqa how to explain it to you as your ignorance, neivity, stupidity are so deep that I would have to start your education all over again 🙄

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    Murder of Protestants for being protestant?

    I have no ideqa how to explain it to you as your ignorance, neivity, stupidity are so deep that I would have to start your education all over again Aye that what it’s all about, like i say read up a bit more.

    Premier Icon Zedsdead
    Free Member

    I’ve been working abroad for a long while but this thread made me come back to here.

    Bigotry is weell and truly alive in Glasgow.

    When I moved here in 1996 I just didn’t get it.

    Going to a new job went like this…

    “who are you?”
    “I’m me, who are you?”
    “What team do you support?”
    Me; “Brechin City”
    Him; “……………. you must be a **** Jew then,”
    Me; “ooooooooooooooooooooooooookay then”

    It’s bananas here and very much alive.

    Will I stop it? No.
    Willl I change anything with my reasoning in arguments that come up? No.
    Will it change? I doubt it – it hasn’t in the 15 years I’ve been here…
    Is it getting any better or worse? – definitely better but there are many who hang onto their parents/families ways…

    what’s teh solution? – I don’t know?

    A lot of ‘football fans’ blinkered – I can’t fix that and I don’t know how it will bw ‘fizxed’.

    In 15 years of living here it is improving but there are small pockets of communities who do keep it going – ever been to ‘little ulster’? what a weird and horrible place that is…

    Will it ever go away? Probably not but it is getting smaller…

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    What the Irish struggle has to do with a game of football….i don’t know?

    what do poppies have to do with a game of football, or the british army, i don’t know, these things just happening, football and life aren’t separate, and as celtic is a cultural focal point for the glasgow Irish, well Irish songs were always going to be heard at celtic park, It wouldn’t have taken genius a to predict that in 1888 at the formation of celtic.

    Premier Icon TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    So the IRA did not murder protestants for being protestant? Those songs do not celebrate the murder of UK citizens?

    Premier Icon TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Poppies are a symbol of the dead of the first world war – as poppies grew in the churned up ground of the battlefields and are are blood red.

    Your ignorance is astounding.

    Premier Icon yossarian
    Free Member

    Btw where have i denied anything about IRA songs, I sing them myself and make no apology for it.

    You stupid pathetic little man

    Premier Icon Scamper
    Free Member

    Not just the first world war, TJ. These days, anyway.

    Premier Icon Futureboy
    Free Member

    what do poppies have to do with a game of football, or the british army

    Outwith the Ugly Sisters they have absolutely nothing to do with football.

    and as celtic is a cultural focal point for the glasgow Irish

    So a Scotsman who may have Irish heritage is Glasgow Irish? That’s a new one on me? Am I Dundee Irish as that’s were my surname originated?

    It wouldn’t have taken genius a to predict that in 1888 at the formation of celtic

    What was relevant in 1888 may not be relevant in 2011.

    Premier Icon CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Yossarian, agreed.

    Now, let’s leave the bottom feeding idiot alone.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    poly

    I am however rather intrigued by your closing remark. So you recognise there is almost no significant difference between what goes on in Scottish Catholic and Scottish Non-denominational schools from either a religious or a pedagogy perspective – why then do you think it is a good thing to segregate primary school pupils according to beliefs that at the age of 5 they almost certainly can’t have properly considered and evaluated on their own?Just from a purely personal perspective, I thought my own religious primary education was something very positive, I’ve nothing but good memories from it and the religious stories etc you were told gave you a good grounding in morality, now i don’t doubt for a second that these things are available in non dom schools, but i do think the option should be there for parents if they wish to send their children to catholic school, similarly to jewish schools, muslim schools, and lets even have specific protestant schools if there is a wish.

    The West of Scotland isn’t belfast, I’ve been over and seen the peace wall, the falls and the shankill etc, we live in a different society, we aren’t segregated communities. there are a few enclaves here and there aye, but it’s nothing lik over the water, so i really don’t think the segregation aspect holds up, as a child as soon as i left school, I played with every one of my neighbours, the question of religion didn’t come up.

    Imo in an open society we should surely all be able to respect each others wishes? Sometimes that means parents want to send their children to a religious school, fine by me.

    Premier Icon duckman
    Full Member

    Place is full of Arabs tonight! Wonder what the other 5497 are doing tonight. BTW seosamh77 you are trolling yes? Poor show imo,you could have chosen a better subject.

    Premier Icon Futureboy
    Free Member

    Place is full of Arabs tonight! Wonder what the other 5497 are doing tonight.

    😀

    Premier Icon poly
    Free Member

    now i don’t doubt for a second that these things are available in non dom schools,

    they are, so your argument for catholic schools is null. There appears to be almost no difference so the costs and complexities of running two systems in parallel (and bussing people all over the place etc) is pointless.

    However as you are basically a terrorist I don’t intend to waste any more of my time debating the issue.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    So the IRA did not murder protestants for being protestant? Those songs do not celebrate the murder of UK citizens?

    the 2 songs i mentioned are to do with the easter rising and the war of independence, like i say read up, they are historical songs, it’s your ignorance that’s showing through here(well to anyone beyond your little ignorant pack, that cry blue murder at the mention of the words IRA).

    I’ve never once condoned the murder of anyone.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    However as you are basically a terrorist I don’t intend to waste any more of my time debating the issue.

    Jebus. I’ve also read a book about nelson mandela, does that make me a terrorist too?

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    So a Scotsman who may have Irish heritage is Glasgow Irish? That’s a new one on me? Am I Dundee Irish as that’s were my surname originated

    If you don’t want to define yourself as such, no, be what you like. you know this is half the problem in glasgow, the absolute refusal of scottish society to recognise our Irish heritage. Quite staggering actually as that’s where most Irish immigrated to…. It’s amazing that you can be Irish american,, New york Irish, Boston Irish, even London Irish but not Glasgow Irish, or Scots Irish.

    Premier Icon nwilko
    Free Member

    Football fans in simpleton shocker !!!

    Premier Icon deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    This thread has taken a fairly ugly turn guys. I’m not sure who started it but can we just calm down a bit.

    Premier Icon Futureboy
    Free Member

    Edit…can’t be bothered anymore.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    Bummer…i didn’t notice those options in the Census.

    you weren’t looking very hard.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    This thread has taken a fairly ugly turn guys. I’m not sure who started it but can we just calm down a bit.

    Fair enough, I leave it at that.

    Premier Icon Waderider
    Free Member

    I am a Northern Irish protestant, which should skew my opinion towards some of the above polemics, but singing IRA songs most certainly does not automatically make you a bigot.

    There is some nonsense typed on this forum, usually by the same fools.

    Premier Icon mrmo
    Free Member

    jezzz,

    Brief history lesson as i understand it, Ireland has been under the control of the British crown for centuries, the actions of Oliver Cromwell, through to modern times have led to ill feeling!! The Irish are a Catholic nation, in an effort to enforce control Protestants loyal to the crown were settled.

    If you want you can tell the religion and origin of an Irish person from their surname.

    However Ireland has always been a poor country and catholics were denied rights, this in part goes back to the Tudors and Bloody Mary etc. and the british mistrust of Catholics, where ever you go you will find the descendants of irish catholic emigrants. They were often employed as navi’s and this is where a fair few travellers find their past.

    Easter uprising led to the partition in due course, and with it in more time the troubles, i suggest you read and understand the consequences of the british armies response to the uprising. But there has never been a single Catholic or Protestant movement, different groups have always wanted to subvert the cause for their own aims.

    If you look you will find that the IRA was in talks with the NAZIs because of their aims. Not because of political ideas, but to get the british out of Ireland. You have the IRA the provo’s, the Real IRA, the INLA, look at who Sinn Fein are, and on the Protestant side the DUP, UDF, etc it is all a mess.

    And for most through all this they want to live a life, but the Catholics were denied jobs, breeding further resentment, the use of Internment without trial.

    Others will know more, and can fill in details, but centuries of distrust, abuse, and suppression take time to undo. The belief that songs and marches are of no consequence fails to understand how deep the hatred run, they are songs that have real meaning, and they should not be forgotten but they should not be regarded as innocent, they are not.

    And even today Catholics are barred from the marrying into the british royal family, a dynasty imposed to prevent a catholic sitting on the british throne.

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