Did Cairn Gorm from Loch Morlich on Saturday including all the way down on paths. Being holiday season, lots of people around but not a single person gave me a disapproving look let alone a "shouldn't be using bikes here", and qhite a few stopped for a quick chat.

Since there's been a few negative posts recently about the anti-bike brigade thought I would report a positive experience.

+ 1 rode Tinto the other week and everyone was very pleasant.

I very rarely get problems even in England. Was riding a FP in the Peaks yesterday and saw a farmer stood in front of me. He said "Good afternoon!" in a really cheery voice, brief chat about what a lovely day it was and he wished me a pleasant ride across his land on the FP. 🙂

I was on the CX though so maybe he just thought I was certifiably insane for trying to ride it on a beefed up road bike and thought he'd best humour me, I don't know… 😉

lots of friendly walkists out last night around sheffield – no footpath comments here either…

NI is full of abusive walkers who think they have a divine right to go wherever they damn well please. Trail blocking is becoming quite a menace too.
Yet when riding in Scotland various times this last 3 years I have had no bother at all from any of the walkers, plenty of signs around reminding people that trails are for everyones use and to be considerate of other folk.

When pushing our bikes up Ben Lomond a few weeks ago we had a lot of friendly 'you must be nuts' type comments from walkers coming down. There was a couple of old boys who were pretty disapproving but I think most people find it quite entertaining.

I've never had any problems either, most people seem to realise that we're out there for pretty much the same reasons they are. Most "proper" (that's sure to start an argument..) walkers are very friendly, its the ones that seem to have dragged the kids out for their annual experience of nature that are the miserable bastards 😀

A comment I saw on outdoors magic I think pretty much sums up the main view of active walkers "if the equipment available today was available when I was younger, then I would be doing it too".

I think the main problem is with occasional walkers, who aren't really outdoors types, usually middle class and middle aged, with an inflated view of their own self importance. Unfortunately also the type of people who become local councillors and magistrates so with power and influence to inflict their views on others.

Mark, Tinto, where what route? I've looked everytime i pass, is it worth a drive from edinburgh?

grum, exactly that. Usually along the lines of "that looks like hard work but must be fun going down".

Although the fun is obviously the descent, I kind of strangely enjoy the slog up even if a lot of pushing carrying is involved. Mainly the satisfaction of doing it.

Yeah I have to say I weirdly enjoyed the slog up Ben Lomond.

One thing to note in the other direction though, a few times I have seen bikers coming down – and walkers stopping and getting off to one side to get out of the way – bikers go straight past without even saying hello, let alone thank you. Bit rude imo, especially as technically I think walkers have right of way over bikes.

One thing to note in the other direction though, a few times I have seen bikers coming down – and walkers stopping and getting off to one side to get out of the way – bikers go straight past without even saying hello, let alone thank you. Bit rude imo

Totally unacceptable and gets us a bad name. How much effort is it to at least say thank you as you go past?

NI is full of abusive walkers who think they have a divine right to go wherever they damn well please

Do what I did staralfur, save up and ship out. I used to live in Bangor and it wasn't so much problems with walkers as a lack of available countryside that did my nut in. A two month MTB ride from Stranraer to Cape Wrath and back in 1996 made my mind up. With a bit of planning, and some help from friends I moved to Scotland in 1999 and haven't looked back.

I've had very few negative interactions with other outdoor users. I regard myself as a mobile cycling PR exercise. Having typed that if someone flies of on one at me they get a good mouthful back. A few times I've been told by English tourists in Scotland that "I shouldn't be riding here". I reserve a cryptic reply of "leave England's problems in England when you come here please" for such occasions. They have no idea what I'm on about I'm sure, but it makes me feel better.

I have thought about moving before as the girlfriend is from Inverness and we could easily setup there, but truth be told I love NI. The mountain biking isnt TOO bad these days, especially since I can just ride the half mile to Shaws bridge and footer about till my hearts content.
If we moved to the Highlands i'd be bankrupted in no time as i'd spend all my money at Nevis, and never go to work!

A the risk of getting shot down in flames there's been a lot of footpaths built in scottish mountain areas to protect the environment. Many of these have significantly mitigated against erosion (Schiehallion being a good example – the old path left huge scars on the hill ).

These are ridiculously expensive to build, a lot have been built by volunteers (mostly walkers) but more importantly have been designed for walkers and not mountain bikers. With responsible riding they could probably carry bikes fine, but ripping down these footpaths down hill style will significantly shorten their lifespan.

Theres no excuses rudeness from either walkers or MTBers, but I know a lot of the ill feeling in some of the walkers stems from this.

lot have been built by volunteers (mostly walkers)

I'm a walker too.

Many of these have significantly mitigated against erosion

Caused nearly 100% by walkers.

ripping down these footpaths down hill style will significantly shorten their lifespan

Rarely have I read such nonsense.

Theres no excuses rudeness from either walkers or MTBers

Ignoring the grammatical errors, we can agree on this.

oh dear – thought as much.

lot have been built by volunteers (mostly walkers)
I'm a walker too.

errr….so am I ?

Many of these have significantly mitigated against erosion
Caused nearly 100% by walkers.

Correct. But the paths are doing their job i.e. reducing erosion
(edit: I would say 99.9% by walkers – definitely some blame down to MTB)

ripping down these footpaths down hill style will significantly shorten their lifespan
Rarely have I read such nonsense.

So are you saying that this wont shorten the life of the paths ?

The answer is simple j_me, no debate required, just you keep walking up those hills.

And feel bad about every footstep.

😯

sigh…

cairngorm has always been the epicentre for not on my land! It been like that with the snowboard in winter as well

"but ripping down these footpaths down hill style will significantly shorten their lifespan."

Not sure I agree. Masses of people walking wore out the trails, eroding the thin, soft surface of hillsides. These armoured trails are designed hardened and well drained so that they don't erode. Stick to the hardened trails and there will no bother, other than them being technically hard. I wish we could persuade authorities to do some hardening around here!

Also, there is a huge overlap between off-road cyclists and hillwalkers. There are no separate "camps" really, just stuffy people who wont move with the times.

Mark, Tinto, where what route? I've looked everytime i pass, is it worth a drive from edinburgh?

Hi Kevonakona, I have only gone up from Thankerton and it is a straight up and down trail. It is tough climb/push and I missed the view from the top due low cloud :cry:. Mind you the run down is okay :D. I need to try the other routes out from Wiston and Symington as they look to be a bit more interesting.

>cairngorm has always been the epicentre for not on my land! It been like that with the snowboard in winter as well<

News to me on the Snowboard front at least – care to elaborate?

Had a few disdainful looks /mutterings under the breath over the years and some memorable rammies with Landowners. None since the LRA tho ;-)Anything I get now is restricted to English folk who aren't familiar with the live and let live ethos we have with hillwalkers and climbers up here in Scotland. Many of these punters use bikes for the long walks in / out anyway so there's often crossover & respect to anyone tough enough to take bikes up the big hills.

Locally I frequently come across the organised Rambling types usually two abreast / ten deep. They are generally the most sour faced bastards I come across – often finding it hard to manage as much as a "good morning" That crowd are rarely prevalent in the big hills 😉

Captain

Which way did you go up and down Cairngorm? We rode Coire Cas route up to the ski centre then rode the beast of a fireroad up to the tea room near the top before the gramd traverse to MacDhui.

Which way did you come down?

We met one slightly grumpy walker on our route yesterday but in the main,I rarely meet a walker with a grump on.

j-me

Why do you assume that you'll get mountain bikers ripping down the footpaths downhill style? Do you really think that someone riding down the likes of the stone pitched trail at the top of Ben Lomond is going to greatly reduce the lifespan of the trail taking into account relative numbers of walker v biker usage? Why is there a de facto assumption of conflict between walkers and bikers?

Cheers

Sanny

The higher you go in Scotland the nicer folk get. The low level ramblers are usually the grumpies.

Re erosion… a few bike tyres from the brave is sfa compared to a bus load of walkers with metal tipped walking poles… and I see no calls for the banning of these moron look at me with all the gear for the Himalaya[/i] accessories.

Sanny

OK what I posted was why some walkers feel a level animosity towards MTBs on some mountain paths, and why we dont always get a friendly reception. It is NOT my opinion and I always try to be pleasant and greet walkers and MTBers alike with a smile and a wave. in fact and if you read the post i say that IMO with responsible use the majority of these paths will be fine.

As for damage to these paths. I've been riding and walking these paths for 20 years plus and in my opinion I cause more damage to these paths when I'm riding a fast decent fast than when I'm walking it. But then again maybe I've been doing it all wrong.

As for Ben Lomond not been up there for a long while, the path looked pretty solid but already people(walkers) had wandered off of the made path in the steeper sections. Would I ride it? Yes (but only if i could stay on the path all the way which is unlikely). Would I claim that I caused less damage than an individual walker ? No. Would I feel guilty ? Dont think so. But if I did I would try and absolve myself with a donation to the NTS or think about volunteering for a days path building.

lol @ the walking poles.

On the trail erosion caused by bikes – it all depends IMO on the steepness of the trail and the type of surface

I know many places with obvious bike erosion and the one that really annoys me is tyre tracks around water bars widening the trail to the side of them and making the water bars useless.

However its not a huge issue generally and usually on popular but not hardened trails such as carn ban Mor or only in "honeypot" areas that get a huge amount of usage I have seen and would be avoided completely if people rode in accordance with the Access code.

I have no doubt that if lots of MTBers started riding some of these fragile routes than MTB erosion would become an issue.

Sanny, went up the road to the ski centre then up the fire road to the Ptarmigan then to the summit. Same way back down to the restaurant, short bit on the fire road then mainly path back to ski centre and path from lower car park back to Glenmore. How did your big trip go?

The higher you go in Scotland the nicer folk get. The low level ramblers are usually the grumpies.

Agreed

On the erosion question, mountain bikes will only erode built trails badly if they skid. Without skidding we should cause less damage than walkers, especially with poles. On non constructed paths we can clearly cause more damage on soft ground than walkers. For both is is the same story – ride responsibly, which includes not skidding and getting off if the ground is really soft

did the cairngorm to macdui ride yesterday, saw billions of walkers on both mountains(we saw no other bikes )the vast majority of them had positive comments to make. off the back of macdui in to glen derry and back to glenmore we saw no walkers at all (23 kms)

IS/Sanny, how long did it take you – 6-7 hours? That is definitely going on my to do list.

Just under 9 hours. We rode up the same way as you then headed across the plateau. We didn't hang about for long when we stopped for food. The views were too good not to take the time to soak up.

I can heartily recommend the Coire Cas footpath climb from Glenmore.

As italspark says, it was truly epic. It's not a route to do if you don't like sustained techy riding and object to carrying so it will never be a popular ride. However, it was a truly stunning day out and paid back the climbs in spades. Seeing the reindeer herd was a highlight.

TJ is right. If there was a large number of folk riding, erosion would become more noticable. Just in the same way as the large volume of walkers have created the trails in the first place. 😯

look at the erosion on the slopes up through glencoe from walkers but who is to blame? them? or the local authorites?
on the erosion topic we did the STW hard route on the Cheviots yesterday with an added climb in/descent home into scotland to join the loop and i was very impressed with the condition of the trails from lack of motorcycle use..and this from an ex er..scottish motorcycle trail rider (shooosh-wanted in 25 countys) who rode down here all the time in the 1990s so although i loved it at the time i did see the damage caused then by less responsible folk…and its way worse than any bicycle could do..
for the record when cycling i give all walkers a big wave,grin and howdy and if there miserable thats there issue not mine 😮
we passed 3 pairs of walkers there yesterday who all spoke and smiled and one pair of bikers near Salters Road who if they had smiled the road below us would have cracked…but they had just climbed up what we were about to descend 😮

News just in . Cairngorm and Ben Macdui have sunk into loch Avon. So there is no need to try and ride there ever again. Sorry for any inconvenience.

It's all crap compared to Wrexham. Go there.

One of the best things about riding up here in Scotland is the complete lack of hassle from walkers. In fact in my neck of the woods I have often met more riders than walkers on a day out! Compared to the Lakes where I used to live where it was continuous hassle, in Scotland walkers seem to like you to stop and have a blether with them!!

Compared to the Lakes where I used to live where it was continuous hassle

I very rarely if ever get any hassle from walkers in the Lakes – lots of friendly folk about.

sanny…..wheres the photies ?

Here are links to the photos from Sundays Cairngorms ride.

vw.splitscreens photos

My photos

Gordymac
Velo Club Moulin

cheers gordy,
fantastic ride with some great company, hard tail dave is a living legend in my book his post ride 14" pizza never touched the sides