My view is that an independent Scotland would be much better off – partly as a result of the oil money and partly ‘cos they could make macro economic policy to suit.

Aaaaaaaaaah – the Arc of Prosperity. Macro-economic policy that would have included the regulatory framework of Iceland for RBS and HBOS, and the tax regime of Dublin. That was Alec’s oft stated macro-economic policy, wasn’t it?

Greece would be looking like Switzerland in comparison. You’d all be presently bartering with chickens in a post-apocalyptic hell

“You also din’t get a vote in the Doncaster, Hartlepool and Torbay Mayoral Elections, TJ. And neither did I.

Elfinsafety, earlier you said that on the basis that London makes more money than Scotland, Scottish Independance is irrelevent to the uk. But you also say that Scotland shouldn’t be allowed to go independnant without the UK’s permission.

So if london is as important as you say, all in the uk should have had a vote on the london Mayor. And if scottish independance is as irrelevent as you say, then just like we didn’t get a vote on the hartlepool bielection, the uk shouldn’t get a vote on scottish independance.

So what’s your point?

It’s back there. You mustuv missed it…

Would the dissolution of the Union be of benefit to all the people of the UK. Not just a small minority.

Surprised at you Elf, supporting the oppression of an ethnic minority by imperialist rulers just because it benefits the majority?

Or is that okay cos the Scots have different coloured* skin? 😉

Racialistismist.

.

(* light blue)

It’s back there. You mustuv missed it…

Yeah, it went up while I was writing.

So, simple question – is Scottish Indpendance irrelevent to the uk or not?

Sorry, I was not listening.

What was the question?

It’s not irrelevant as there wouldn’t be a United Kingdom if Scotland were to dissolve the Union. Whether it would have any impact on the great majority of English people is another matter, how much of England’s trade is with Scotland?

Can we not apply the theory of setting free:

If you love someone, set them free. If they come back they’re yours; if they don’t they never were.

It’s in not england’s decision to make and the more the english demand, the more desperate they look.

What a greedy self-centered Toryesque view. ‘Sod the rest of you we want the money for yourselves’.

Can’t speak for TJ personally, but if there is one thing that scotland is NOT, it is toryesque. Having Tories in UK government is one of the things that has given the Indpendece movement in scotland a wee bost in recent years.

No say whatsoever for the English since that’s not their land but there is always an option to take the Scots by force and put them to hard labour … again …

Or let them have their independence …

Then let the Scots go house to house to search for the English …

Then put them English to hard labour.

😆

Sorry, I was not listening.

What was the question?

is Scottish Indpendance irrelevent to the uk or not?

Only if there’s the possibility that it’s actually going to happen, which is how likely?

And let’s be honest; how much of the ‘proud cultural heritage and identity’ is actually a smokescreen for ‘the oil’s running out let’s grab all the profits for ourselves while we still can’?

And to those wanting independence: What language do you propose to speak? Y’know, unique cultural identity and heritage being oh so important and that? 😉

Even the phrasing of the question demonstrates the kind of attitude that make 2/3 of scots want to a change

Scottish Independence – should the English have a say?

What about Wales and NI having a say, or is it only the English who are allowed to decide what happens to any of the other countries in the Union?

I wonder, how many people are currently unemployed per capita in Scotland, and how many are in England?

Would TJ’s beloved Macro-Economic Scottish Policy decrease that number?

not very IMO – I doubt an independence referendum will get a majority but it might be a close run thing.

What if we give you the Falklands; that way you can have your own island, miles form England, and not have to be bothered by us Sassenachs any more?

Fair deal?

I wonder, how many people are currently unemployed per capita in Scotland, and how many are in England?

The Scottish unemployment rate is now 8%, below the UK average of 8.3%.

Talking to a chap i was on holiday with, an Englishman who worked in the oil industry and has lived in Scotland for 20 yrs or so, he reckoned the Scots would bottle it at the last minute, that it was all posturing and that most would back away from full independence at the polls.

8% unemployed eh?

How would that be affected by Independence? Would it increase or decrease? Hard to say i suppose but it must be in the minds or ordinary Scots.

he reckoned the Scots would bottle it at the last minute, that it was all posturing and that most would back away from full independence at the polls.

Current opinion polls show that two-thirds of Scots don’t want full independence – so I’m not sure how that is posturing or why showing that majority at a referendum would be “bottling it”?

Most Scots are currently unconvinced. But… I think most seem to agree that the SNP have done a reasonably good job so far, so they are starting to listen to what wee Alex has to say.

Only if it’s actually going to happen, which is how likely?

Not sure about likely, but it’s a very real possibility, i’d say independence lite/devo max is more likely, and at the moment is probably what I’d vote for.

But here’s a few things.

Blue Peter Badge winners never get into scottish stuff for free.

On the UK news: “If you don’t want to know the score in the Premiership, Championship, league one, league two, league three, conference, regional pub league look away now…..meanwhile in Scotland Celtic won, Rangers lost, and who’s even heard of the oher teams anyway.”

Everything you hear see and read about Scotland in London based media and even on here talks about the place like it’s a colonial outpost with untamed natives.

My heart says independance, my head says devolution.

What if we give you the Falklands; that way you can have your own island, miles form England, and not have to be bothered by us Sassenachs any more?

Fair deal?
a whip round to send you there without internet access would seem much more reasonable IMHO 😉

I understood him to mean that ‘Scots as an entity’ would bottle the challenge presented by full Independence. I am left wondering how long Salmond has left with his Independence policy, if after all these years the SNP can still not convince Scots of the benefits of Independence then how long will his star shine? I would have thought that with the recession and a Tory/LimpDem coalition in Westminster slashing and burning their way through the public sector cinditions would be ideal for Independence.

No send you there without internets then we won’t have to put up with your crap typing. 😡

Now Elf’s threatening to deport us?

“Why don’t you back where you came from?” is that it Elf?

*shakes head*

That snickers was smashing.

Well, anyway – what I think is that we should, erm… Oh, wait – pork pie and mustard. Yum…

Twa neebor wifes sat i’ the sun,
A twynin at their rocks,
An they an airgument began,
An a’ the plea was…

Or how about; we give you full independence, but only revenue from oil proportionate to your population compared to that of the whole UK, so, 9% or so. Or swap you some gas?

Would youse be happy with that?

Cos yer not getting all the oil, you do know that don’t you? 😉

I’m having some Cheese and Onion Crisps. 😐

I’d just let the SNP get on with it.

Jose Manuel Barroso has already made it abundantly clear that entry into the EU will be conditional on membership of the Euro. Proposing an independence referendum on the grounds that it better meets the interests of the Scottish people has been timed to perfection.

There was little reluctance by the SNP to accept a £20bn bailout coordinated by the Treasury for one of its own national banks in 2008. Quite ironic seeing as RBS can trace its history to the Scottish Banking Company, a company formed by the shareholders of the Darien expedition following its bail out by England under the Act of Union in 1707 (article 14) How the bailout of RBS and HBOS would have worked in an independent Scotland is pretty unclear.

What is astonishing is how little debate this is generating politically in England among any of the major parties, given he constitutional and practical problems that would ensue for all neighbouring countries should a vote for independence be secured. Salmond has the floor to himself on this topic at the moment.

There was little reluctance by the SNP to accept a £20bn bailout coordinated by the Treasury for one of its own national banks in 2008.

Mmm.. that “Treasury” money was partly from Scottish taxpayers too tho, no?

As was the money for Northern Rock…

Cos yer not getting all the oil, you do know that don’t you?

The old Scotland vs England fixture could be on the cards again 🙂

kerplunk – if Scotland is independent the UK no longer exists in the same form, so if Scotland would have to renegotiate terms with the EU so would the rump UK.

Can you really imagine that the EU would not want Scotland? with most of the EUs oil, much of its potential renewables, much of its fishing grounds?

Scotland has plenty to offer the EU

I am not reading 4 pages of the same old bolloocks so I will merely add the following bullet points:

• the scots should be free to choose the destiny of their nation, whatever that may be.
• the oil deposits in the north sea are dwindling and will offer significantly lower returns on new finds that present new challenges in extraction. The fossil fuel finance ship has sailed. Period.
• England would be richer per head without Scotland.
• if I was Scottish I would want to be 100% independent.

England would be richer per head without Scotland

Dunno why as Scotland is a net contributor to the UK economy

Mmm.. that “Treasury” money was partly from Scottish taxpayers too tho, no?

As was the money for Northern Rock…

Not the point. SNP wants full independence and fiscal autonomy. How would an independent Scotland have generated the revenue to fund a £20bn bailout on it’s own? Germany cannot generate sufficient interest in its bonds at auction so how would an independent Scotland have raised the revenue to fund the bailout? Last time I checked both HBOS and RBS were banks whose headquarters were based in Edinburgh therefore I assume the SNP would consider them Scottish and not English companies.

kerplunk – if Scotland is independent the UK no longer exists in the same form, so if Scotland would have to renegotiate terms with the EU so would the rump UK

dunno ??

http://www.firmmagazine.com/news/2653/UK_Government_lawyers_declare_an_independent_Scotland_would_automatically_secede_from_EU.html

Scotland is a net contributor to the UK economy

Pends what figures you use I spose…

*could lurk and read these debates all day*

indeed it does elf.

Jota – and the scottish government has different advice – and can you explain why when the UK no longer exists that England and Wales would remain members and Scotland would not?

Also – if you want an independent Scotland this remains irrelevant.

Right. I am on a train with nothing else to do, so I HAVE read ATS.

Maybe it comes from my love of history but i love the story of the creation of England, how waves of settlers and warriors took a land from the natives

The natives? Us Welsh and Irish then AKA Britons.

So if london is as important as you say, all in the uk should have had a vote on the london Mayor.

The Mayor only deals with stuff that only affects London afaik.

Anyway. Federal UK FTW. You know I’m right, I always am.