Gtiunior is at MMU so if this is true we are well and truly goosed, lodging in a poxy mouse infested bungalow in a Scottish village where everybody dobs in their neighbours at the smallest opportunity.

Honestly I don’t know how much more stress I can take before a heart attack or stroke gets me.

I’m not sure they will be able. The push back from students, and from the Universities, will be massive. Puts a huge burden on the Uni to keep facilities running for 4 weeks. Ok they do stay open at that time as there are always some that stay (eg international students) but there isn’t the resource to keep infrastructure etc open at that scale eg term time only staff in halls, catering etc.

I’m surprised universities are allowed to keep their halled students captive, no idea what law they donit under. Regarding leaving to go elsewhere, doesn’t it depend on where the individual is registered as ‘home’? Scot Gov can’t stop people returning to their home. But they couldn’t then leave to go back to the non home uni…..

Even if every student was to lock down it would spread CV everywhere.

Scottish govt are talking about Scottish unis as far as Im aware, so wouldn’t apply to your son/daughter. If someone dobs you in they’ll be incorrect… so no worries 🙂

She goes to MMU and lodges in Scotland ?

Im not sure what the Scottish government thinks statements like these will do for the mental health of both students and non students. We had 3 suicides in the central belt on the railways last week , It was actually thought to be 4 but 1 turned out to be some kids just lying down playing chicken.
Anyhoo I digress , with mental health at an all time low after months of lockdowns , redundancies and basically not much hope short term . To then deny students to come home and last week basically saying Christmas was cancelled unless we behaved is ridiculous . Whatever your views on covid are we should surely be focussing on the positives rather than constantly painting the darkest of pictures to people who are already very low.

I don’t think that will be the case; but some forward planning on isolation before retiring home, and staggered return might be needed.

Whatever your views on covid are we should surely be focussing on the positives

There may not be a positive to focus on by Christmas. By Christmas we may be in another shit national lockdown. Allowing thousands of students to travel back to their parents communities to potentially infect their elderly/vulnerable relatives and friends could see local spikes as bad as those seen when they first went to university.

My heart goes out to families and students who may be affected by this, but that risk has been obvious since they opened up the unis in September.

As TiRed keeps saying, there is no good choice to make.

some forward planning on isolation before retiring home, and staggered return might be needed.

That would make sense. Not sure I’d put money on it happening though.

Presumably by Christmas the students will all have been infected, recovered, and be full of antibodies? So not infectious at all.

Im not sure what the Scottish government thinks statements like these will do for the mental health of both students and non students

To be fair, I don’t think it was a statement, education minister was asked a question, and he said it was a possibility.

Sturgeon kinda poo pood it later on.

Or maybe the most vulnerable could have another period of shielding to cover the holidays?

Thing is, universities pretty much shut over xmas/new year. my place, we downed tools usually the day before christmas eve and came back on the 3rd or 4th of january (all paid holiday) though most staff also took extra time around there. There’s a skeleton crew of security just to stop the place burning down, no catering, limited cleaning, no facilities really. Even the swans take time off from biting people. And staff right now are not massively full of goodwill, and are desperately looking forward to the break after the shittest university term in decades surrounded by rightly miserable and angry students, the threat of redundancy, etc. So how’s that going to work?

oldnpastit
Full Member

Presumably by Christmas the students will all have been infected, recovered, and be full of antibodies? So not infectious at all.

Very unlikely- for all students have been depicted as being plague carriers the actual rate of infection isn’t likely to be high enough to make any real difference

Very unlikely- for all students have been depicted as being plague carriers the actual rate of infection isn’t likely to be high enough to make any real difference

St Andrews has had 53 student cases since 1st September. We have about 9.5K students.

I can’t see that they will stop home time at Christmas.

Eldest_oab has been told that Heriot Watt are planning testing at HW before they go home and another year required before they return.

everybody dobs in their neighbours at the smallest opportunity

Good. There seems to be more pressure on people not to grass or live and let live but I think there needs to be a big shift in attitude. I would like to see my own family at Christmas and for that to happen people have got to start bloody well behaving and not mixing in bigger groups than they’re supposed to or galavanting off round the country and some societal pressure from people being dobbed in will help.

My friends are doing it and I haven’t yet summoned the courage to call them out on it, and I see people breaking the rules every time I go out but haven’t yet had the guts to go “oi, stop pissing about in a group of three households, there’s a pandemic that needs keeping in check and I want to go see my mum for Christmas”. But I think I’m not far off breaking point and might well murder the next group of three middle aged women I see hiking side by side.

Im not sure what the Scottish government thinks statements like these will do for the mental health of both students and non students. We had 3 suicides in the central belt on the railways last week , It was actually thought to be 4 but 1 turned out to be some kids just lying down playing chicken.

Is that exceptional for this time of year? I don’t have a feel – but when I was commuting it was a fairly common thing for disruption somewhere due to person struck by train.

To then deny students to come home

They haven’t denied students – they’ve rightly given some early warning that some students may have to consider this. My expectation (although its not explicitly what he said) is that the students who don’t go home at the end of term will be the ones who are in isolation because of symptoms, tests, or exposure to confirmed cases. Perhaps the fear of not getting home will encourage a little responsibility in the 2 weeks leading up to end of term?

and last week basically saying Christmas was cancelled unless we behaved is ridiculous .

Except thats not what they said if you bother to watch the interview rather than read the headlines.

Whatever your views on covid are we should surely be focussing on the positives rather than constantly painting the darkest of pictures to people who are already very low.

I’m not sure what you are hoping for – but its as bonkers as the Bishop suggesting we could forget restrictions for one day because the Germans agreed a truce in the trenches.

My heart goes out to families and students who may be affected by this, but that risk has been obvious since they opened up the unis in September.

+1

The night Johnson announced the original lockdown our youngest (21) was at his girlfriends, and went to work from there. When he arrived (6am) the site Manager was turning everyone away, so he came home.

Over a coffee I said he’d two choices – stay at home (where he’d been living) or move in with her.
If he stayed with us (and his girlfriend could too), they had to accept the Covid ‘rules’. He moved out.

These students took exactly the same decision our youngest did, they just didn’t think about it at the time (or didn’t have someone explain it to them).

It’s a global pandemic FFS, what bit of this didn’t they get?

Thing is, universities pretty much shut over xmas/new year. my place, we downed tools usually the day before christmas eve and came back on the 3rd or 4th of january

Yes. This. Even the heating is turned off! In fact we’ve been given extra leave this year to allow us all to have 2 full weeks, as a thank you for dealing with the s**t storm. (Shame p20 is working something like 11 out of my 16 days…)

It’s a global pandemic FFS, what bit of this didn’t they get?

FFS perhaps the one where the government spent August deliberately downplaying it and saying things where going back to normal?
The one where the universities downplayed it by making claims about how the education would be about normal rather than admitting they would be stuck in some grotty halls watching lectures on zoom?
The one that in reality the risk to them is fairly limited despite the fact they will be the one stuck with the bills and permanently depressed wages.
The one where they can see house prices spiralling even further beyond their reach whilst the tories make it cheaper for the btl crowd to buy up everything?

Did they say we were going back to normal? I don’t think they did, they said restrictions were easing but it was never a return to normal then…either way, it clearly hasn’t helped as the virus itself has spread along with the lack of social distancing i.e. larger groups mixing, schools back, etc. the virus numbers have risen again.

This is going to take a long time to get over/beaten and it is not going to be a pleasant journey, but I think it needs to be done to try and get better control of things and reduce the spread of the virus – appreciate although everyone is suffering there are many who are suffering far worse than others (which I don’t like or find comfortable in any way).

What proportion of students live in halls compared to private lets?

What proportion of students live in halls compared to private lets?

Tricky to say as there is now a big market in private serviced accommodation; which looks a lot like a campus student hall. However these are for 2nd+ years who in the past found houses with 7 of their mates. Those houses definitely still exist but there are now two private markets in many cities these days and some of these are large apartment block type. Very roughly, a lot of 1st years live in Uni operated halls (or operated on behalf of the Uni), and 2nd years onwards ‘live out’.

But these blocks will be off-campus and therefore no requiring university staff to be around over the festive period?

But quite a lot of those blocks offer a say 32 week rent and don’t open over the holidays regardless. Students like it as they don’t have to pay rent when they aren’t there. And it’s not just the accommodation – if students aren’t allowed home, they will need wider support eg mental health support, Uni security services which operate in association with city councils, sports facilities etc. I’m not saying it is impossible but it puts a lot of pressure on already very stretched and financially struggling Unis.

https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/strategy-plan/2020/10/covid-19-scotlands-strategic-framework/documents/covid-19-scotlands-strategic-framework/covid-19-scotlands-strategic-framework/govscot%3Adocument/covid-19-scotlands-strategic-framework.pdf?forceDownload=true&fbclid=IwAR2tx80ikFCNMgILQecZcFk2FmsU-rnHMJGpLiRHBLL48vjCIvLzY_RqZ7A

Page 52 is stoodents – basically aware that going home and returning is big risk, that Scot govt will support university’s to make arrangements.

I think the challenge will be students returning after seeing dozens of family and friends…

oldnpastit
Full Member

Presumably by Christmas the students will all have been infected, recovered, and be full of antibodies? So not infectious at all.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54696873

What proportion of students live in halls compared to private lets?

Varies hugely – SHeffield Hallam for example dont have any uni owned halls, they are all rented privately (some by the uni on behalf of students, some directly by the students).

It seems that covid is requiring some young folk to grow independent fast. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Maybe they’ll build stronger support networks in their university homes?

Reality check time, currently restrictions are being widely ignored and eroded, government has no coherent plan and everyone knows England should be in full lock down now and Scotland if we want a vaguely sociable Christmas.

Students will come home, those in direct university accommodation will not be able to stay, those in private blocks can’t be compelled to stay.

People will think it’s a breach of their fundamental human rights not to have a big family piss up, hell not being able to buy a kettle for 2 weeks in Wales nearly caused a riot.

People are no longer scared of this virus, fatigue and depression have taken over. So regardless of what we should do people are going to do what they want, the government has lost control, the virus has still only impacted a small number of people proportionally.

All we can do at this point is follow rule number 1.

Many staff will be off for two weeks at Christmas, but the Uni is making plans depending upon how many students remain on campus – they can stay or leave if they want. We’re planning from just a few hundred to be on Campus, to looking after over 6,000 just in case.

These students took exactly the same decision our youngest did, they just didn’t think about it at the time (or didn’t have someone explain it to them).

It’s a global pandemic FFS, what bit of this didn’t they get?

Harsh. My stepdaughter was told in July that if she didn’t show up at Uni for her second year, then the course would be cancelled and she’d have to re-apply for the course and start again from year one. So she went back.

My mates son is on his third year. He has a good job offer from a big company to start work in August 2021 – if he completes his degree. If he didn’t go back to Uni, no degree and no job. So he went back.

Staying at home for online learning was not an option, in both cases though there has just been one face to face session at the start of term. Both have been confined to halls from the start of term – no parties or socials at all. My stepdaughter is only allowed to “socialise” with the 4 others she shares a kitchen with. She is struggling and depressed. She will be coming home at Christmas. Unless face to face sessions start again (unlikely), she’ll be staying at home.

If my kids were struggling I’d be doing the same as you Boris. Shameful that the universities were allowed to demand students use their accomodation when it clearly wasn’t needed.

Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Maybe they’ll build stronger support networks in their university homes?

The ones they are locked down in and arent allowed to socialise beyond the random strangers they were thrown in with (for first years in particular) after handing over thousands for a couple of zoom lessons a week.
Considering how much they are paying to be screwed over I suspect they will be building something but it wont be what some hope for.

handing over thousands

Ah, so not the native students then….

I’m sure the same thing will be suggested in Wales, then quickly dismissed as completely unthinkable.

I don’t think we needed hindsight to see that sending kids off to Uni this year was an especially stupid idea.

Here in Cardiff in September we welcomed 59k students in September, RCT welcomed about 30k from all over the UK and a few from further afield. Locally it was observed that social distancing was pretty much non-existent as they spent their first few weeks cramming into pubs and each others digs cavorting and fornicating like students are supposed to.

Some measures were taken to try to at least mitigate, but once the TV started to show Students in Manchester “imprisoned” in their halls, they stopped.

Covid likely spread like wildfire amongst their numbers, obviously few of them actually got ill, but twitter would suggest that Covid was this years ‘Freshers Flu’. At the moment, they not supposed to leave their domicile except for very specific reasons. It won’t have been the only cause by any stretch, but counties in Wales with large Uni populations saw a huge rise in Covid numbers, where are neighbouring counties without Unis saw a much smaller rise, like 10% as many.

I’m sure, come December they and their families will want them ‘home’ again, and I’m sure the Government will legitimise it in case there’s another Middle Class outrage, and from Cardiff alone 59k people who have spent the previous 3 months in one giant petri dish will travel back to every corner of the UK, and what’s the first thing they’ll do, well once they’ve handed over their dirty laundry, slept for 23 hours and emptied the fridge? Go to see all their friends who went to different Unis to catch up and boast about what a great time they’re having.

So this weekend, I’m not allowed to drive 9 miles to a trail centre to spend a few hours on my own in the woods, I’ll take some comfort from the fact that whilst, it’s far too dangerous for me to do that, it’s apparently okay for the approx 1.8m Undergrads in the UK to travel hundreds of miles ‘home’ for a few weeks, and then, travel back again. I know some are making wild suggestions about mass testing to allow it to happen, but it’s not like we’ve got 2 million spare test laying around is it?

Although I’ve read Boots will sell you one if you like, the results only take 10 mins or so, it’s £120.

intheborders
Free Member

These students took exactly the same decision our youngest did, they just didn’t think about it at the time (or didn’t have someone explain it to them).

Er, no, not even a little bit. It was never mentioned as an outcome, everything was about “unis are open, come on back”. TBF students had to read between the lines for almost everything- and yet still loads found they were arriving in halls, and yet doing everything by remote learning, or that the distancing measures they were supposed to follow were impossible.

Every effort was made to get kids to start/return to uni rather than deferring/suspending studies, and imo that went right up to outright disinformation/deceit in way too many cases. I think a lot of the time, this was done with best intentions but it’s absolutely wrong to suggest that students “just didn’t think about it” as if they should have seen it coming. The government avoided taking responsibility, the universities by and large avoided taking responsibility, you can’t reasonably say- “You kids- take responsibility for the things that all the people who you’re supposed to be able to trust and rely on didn’t take responsibility for”

It’s just taking another shit on this intake of kids that have been shit on more than enough and who are still paying for the privilege. Please, don’t do that.

What proportion of students live in halls compared to private lets?

1st years tend to live in halls (private or university owned). After that you tend to live in a shared house.

Overseas students and tend to stick to halls sometimes through their whole degree.

Er, no, not even a little bit. It was never mentioned as an outcome, everything was about “unis are open, come on back”.

At this point I remember that it’s no longer just the brightest folk who go to Uni…

Harsh? Yep, but often the truth needs to be said – shame more people didn’t pay attention in December etc.