Scotland Indyref 2

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  • Scotland Indyref 2
  • mashr
    Member

    molgrips

    Subscriber
    Not sure where I’d like to live in Scotland tbh. Glasgow’s busy and messy, Edinburgh’s nice but the biking’s rubbish, and everywhere else is too far from an airport for me to travel for work, I think. Maybe Stirling but the local biking doesn’t look great.

    That’s a lot of bollocks for one relatively short post

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    🤫 let him think that.

    He can stay and suffer in Boris racist brexit land

    Glasgow points weren’t far off the mark to be fair.

    Rest couldn’t be more wrong.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    What many people don’t realise is the SNP should have won every seat in Scotland.

    But there was a dire threat from the former Scots Tory leader Ruth Davidson that horrors would befall us if we gained 50 or more seats.

    So we cowardly settled for 48.

    (I won’t post the pic – it’s too horrible  🙂 )

    What have you been smoking Molly? 🙈😂

    piemonster
    Member

    For anyone thinking about moving to Scotland. I came up from England in 2010 and never want to leave.

    I was in Sheffield before and the Highlands crap all over the Peak in just about every respect. I miss the Gritstone edges being close to hand, but that’s it.

    IHN
    Member

    MrsIHN and I had a (very) brief “let’s move to Scotland” conversation last night. Thing is, if working out a separation agreement with the EU was tricky after 40 years of entanglement, WTF is it going to be like doing similar for Scotland, given it’s nearer 400…

    Premier Icon convert
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    For anyone thinking about moving to Scotland. I came up from England in 2010 and never want to leave.

    I was in Sheffield before and the Highlands crap all over the Peak in just about every respect. I miss the Gritstone edges being close to hand, but that’s it.

    This is me. Work is south of england but fortunately comes with a house so we are buying our highland house in the next few months and should be calling it ‘home’ by easter. So I have no useful contribution to make! We’ve given ourselves 18 months absolute max to get new jobs (and new careers) and move up full time. So if the rest of you could **** off and stay south of the boarder until we’ve sorted a couple of jobs I’d be much obliged.

    Re indyref, if I’d had a vote last time around I think I’d have voted no. Now, it would be yes.

    Premier Icon convert
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    So I have no useful contribution to make!

    I typed……’So I have no useful contribution to make’ – is this some mod meddling?

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    ahhhh – you can’t type ‘i n before the lock’ – I guess because it is/was a standard phrase on threads about to be closed.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    The vote share in Scotland is interesting, the big question is what do labour do now, they are going to have to have a serious debate between themselves on how they move forward.

    A move away from the uk party seems obvious, and they are going to seriously have to consider their position the constitutional question.

    Independence is still a battle that has to be won, last night settled nothing. More of the same looking at the vote share tbh, but a change from labour though could change everything.

    Where they fall on these points going forward though is up for debate I guess and far from certain.

    BruceWee
    Member

    75% voted for pro-EU parties (I think we can tentatively call Labour pro-EU given they wanted a 2nd referendum). I believe that’s the strongest pro-EU vote so far.

    Just listening to the Radio Scotland phone in. They seem to be struggling to find any Unionists.

    scotroutes
    Member

    Ian Murray was scathing regarding Corbyn and the party leadership during his winners speech this morning. While he seems to recognise that Labour have the wrong position on many things, I still doubt he’ll ever accept that Labour in iScotland could be a force.

    BruceWee
    Member

    I’m looking forward to seeing how the Tories spin their message all through the election in Scotland. ie, ‘Stop Indyref2’. Clearly the voters don’t want to stop indyref2.

    My guess is they will just repeatedly say, ‘We never said anything about indyref2 during the campaign.’

    Premier Icon richmtb
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    Kettles on lads. If you leave the house now you can be over the border in time for dinner.

    scotroutes
    Member

    <span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>My guess is they will just repeatedly say, ‘We never said anything about indyref2</span>

    TBF they need only point out that the SNP (a) completely played down independence, during the campaign and (b) asked for folk to “lend them their votes” against Brexit.

    chewkw
    Member

    Give SNP the referendum I say.

    Then see the surprise faces later on.

    gauss1777
    Member

    Surely the chance of a 2nd independence referendum just reduced significantly. I cannot see BJ agreeing to one and the SNP have no hold over the Conservative Party to force one.
    Should there be a 2nd ref (or is it 3rd?)it is still unclear what the outcome would be. The last referendum was extremely divisive and unpleasant, there are a lot of people who do not want to go through all that again so soon.

    gauss1777
    Member

    Give SNP the referendum I say.

    Then see the surprise faces later on.

    Scotland’s best chance of voting for independence (gut feeling), would probably be to give the whole of the UK a vote.

    fasthaggis
    Member

    I would hold off rushing up here just yet.
    I believe this new Tory majority are going to give the SNP and Scotland a proper kicking(financially and policy wise) over the next few years,put these wee upstarts in their place.
    How bloody dare they challenge the master race. Frikin dark times ahead.

    I would hold off rushing up here just yet.

    Very much this.

    Corbyn has royally humped Scotland.

    Dominic is a vengeful God.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    fasthaggis

    Member
    I would hold off rushing up here just yet.
    I believe this new Tory majority are going to give the SNP and Scotland a proper kicking(financially and policy wise) over the next few years,put these wee upstarts in their place.
    How bloody dare they challenge the master race. Frikin dark times ahead.

    Everyone is going to get a kicking.

    The English are about to get a lesson they’ll not forget in a hurry as well I’d suggest.

    The Tories, unhinged, for 5 years… it’s gonny be fun…

    Where’s this idea that the Scotches need to ask permission to leave the UK?

    fasthaggis
    Member

    Corbyn Labour has royally humped Scotland

    Aye Perchy, it’s a desperate state of affairs.

    Friday the 13th living up to all its expectations

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    yourguitarhero

    Member
    Where’s this idea that the Scotches need to ask permission to leave the UK?

    It’s kinda the law, despite SNP rhetoric. And it’s not like they are going to become militant separatists. So the lawful route it is.. Legally they’ve basically no chance of forcing it. Politically though, they might, it’s really over to the SNP now, let’s see if they have any teeth.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    yourguitarhero

    Where’s this idea that the Scotches need to ask permission to leave the UK?

    Indeed. A Sec30 order is an agreement on how a referendum should be conducted, not permission.

    seosamh

    It’s kinda the law, despite SNP rhetoric

    Which law would that be?

    Premier Icon BoardinBob
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    Where’s this idea that the Scotches need to ask permission to leave the UK?

    Keep up this kind of chat. Does the indy movement wonders

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    seosamh

    It’s kinda the law, despite SNP rhetoric

    Which law would that be?

    The law of the united kingdom. acts of union 1707, treaty of union, aw that patter, specifically.

    tails
    Member

    Scotland’s best chance of voting for independence (gut feeling), would probably be to give the whole of the UK a vote.

    Haha! Honestly a great idea, my boss can’t see Andy Murray without frothing at the mouth. This election has just shown me how out of touch I am with most of England, huge swathes are racist, we’d set you free for sure(can I come join). They used to blame blacks, then Asians and currently polish (broad term for Eastern European’s) once brexit is done they’ll blame Scottish until your gone then the Welsh will get blamed.

    Nearly kicked out my Tory 23% swing to Lib Dem.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    epicyclo

    Indeed. A Sec30 order is an agreement on how a referendum should be conducted, not permission.

    The Scottish government can hold referendums until the coos come home, without the section 30, Westminster will just ignore them though, and it’s unlikely the Unionist vote would even engage with them.

    See the nonsense Catalan votes for a hint of how that’ll play out.

    tails
    Member

    I would hold off rushing up here just yet.

    What do you think they plan on doing, as I honestly think Nicola Sturgeon is everything you’d wanting an MP.

    The milngavie liberals must be greetin in their quinoa this morning.

    Good to see ian blackford sailing home, there was talk of tactics between certain parties to get him out, a sign of how well he speaks in Westminster.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
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    seosamh

    The law of the united kingdom. acts of union 1707, treaty of union, aw that patter, specifically.

    Treaties are dissolvable unilaterally, as the UK govt is about to demonstrate.

    It’s always been the case that the dominant country in such a relationship makes it “illegal” for the subordinate to get independence, and there’s no doubt Scotland’s relationship with England is subordinate even though that was not supposed to be the case in the Treaty.

    Scots Law under the Treaty of Union is not inferior to English law. Then there’s the Claim of Right, not to mention the UN Declaration regarding independence.

    It’s going to be interesting times for sure. I’m pretty sure we’ll see a Sec30 refused, and then this will all end up in the courts.

    and then this will all end up in the courts.

    It won’t. Boris’ll have abolished the courts by then.

    irc
    Member

    Glasgow points weren’t far off the mark to be fair.

    Actually you don’t need to live in a high crime scheme to be within 20 minutes of Glasgow airport.

    That said If I was starting from scratch I’d seriously consider the rainfall pattern when deciding where to live.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
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    molgrips

    Subscriber
    Not sure where I’d like to live in Scotland tbh. Glasgow’s busy and messy, Edinburgh’s nice but the biking’s rubbish, and everywhere else is too far from an airport for me to travel for work, I think. Maybe Stirling but the local biking doesn’t look great.

    Ehhhh?

    Have you ever been to Edinburgh or Stirling?

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    epicyclo

    Subscriber
    seosamh

    The law of the united kingdom. acts of union 1707, treaty of union, aw that patter, specifically.

    Treaties are dissolvable unilaterally, as the UK govt is about to demonstrate.

    It’s always been the case that the dominant country in such a relationship makes it “illegal” for the subordinate to get independence, and there’s no doubt Scotland’s relationship with England is subordinate even though that was not supposed to be the case in the Treaty.

    Scots Law under the Treaty of Union is not inferior to English law. Then there’s the Claim of Right, not to mention the UN Declaration regarding independence.

    It’s going to be interesting times for sure. I’m pretty sure we’ll see a Sec30 refused, and then this will all end up in the courts.

    A waste of time, be as well joining Sinn Fein and crack on with a bit of abstentionism as well…

    That the two Kingdoms of (fn. 1) Scotland and England, shall, upon the first Day of May next ensuing the Date hereof, and for ever after, be united into one Kingdom by the Name of Great-Britain

    The treaty wasn’t 2 unions deciding to be in partnership, it was the creation of 1 union. Not 2 parliaments agreeing to rule by consensus, both gave supreme authority to westminster.

    There is only 1 route to independence, and that’s forcing the democratic point through Westminster.

    BruceWee
    Member

    There is only 1 route to independence, and that’s forcing the democratic point through Westminster.

    I think if you are going to limit yourself to a single route to independence then you might as well give up now.

    This is a game of chess. You’re not going to do well if your opponent has a full board and you’ve decided to only play with a king and a bishop.

    I think if this election has proved nothing else it’s that Boris Johnson is a competent enough player to absolutely smash Corbyn. Hopefully Sturgeon will play better.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    The democratic mandate is a lot stronger a route than tenuous legal arguments trying to dissolve the treaty of union.

    BruceWee
    Member

    I’m not disagreeing. But if the plan is to ask for a Section 30 order and then do absolutely nothing until we get it then we’re in for a long wait.

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