duckman – Member

Yet it would appear to be your side that carry out assaults and the recent packages sent to SNP offices.

But but but someone threw an egg at Jim Murphy!

Northwind – Member
But but but someone threw an egg at Jim Murphy!

…and totally fundimundilicated him. 🙂

We’re separate countries and we want control of ours.

That’s a matter of opinion. I don’t think we are – it depends how you define a country.

Seems to me a very successful campaign has been run to do this in our southern neighbour…

A state breaking away from international treaties is somewhat different to a devolved region wanting to set up as a state. I don’t agree with either.

grumpysculler – Member
We’re separate countries and we want control of ours.
That’s a matter of opinion. I don’t think we are – it depends how you define a country.

Just like the UK does in its definition of itself in the UN.

As a union between 2 countries, England and Scotland, a principality, Wales, and a province, NI.

Scotland is a country and that’s not a matter of opinion. We may be a de facto colony, but we are not a region.

After being sceptical about IRA support within the independence movement, what do I see today, but several mentions of Connolly’s execution on 12 May 1916 on various independence threads on FB.

Why does Scotland’s independence have to be polluted on both sides by Irish grudges? It is bugger all to do with them, and all to do with our democracy.

Bellendery adheres to no political boundaries

Im not sure that Sturgeon has changed much of anything shes said there will a decision on whether to hold one or not after 2018 then?

Makes sense anyway, I imagine that brexishambles will be fully exposed for all to see by then

saying that who knows what our (UKs) political situation will be by the end of the summer…?

Im not sure that Sturgeon has changed much of anything shes said there will a decision on whether to hold one or not after 2018 then?

She’s trying to u-turn without u-turning. She’s realised that the independence message is getting somewhat toxic, but if she goes off script too much then she’ll lose her core support.

However, she’s said that the Scottish people must be permitted to decide and that it is the will of the Scottish Parliament to hold a referendum. Yet now her and her cabinet are going to remove that choice for the Scottish people and ignore the will of Parliament? She’s backed into a corner. Just another politician that can’t be trusted. I suspect her time left isn’t all that much more than May’s.

She’s also objecting to the DUP deal. I don’t particularly like it so have some sympathy, but if Sturgeon had played her cards better then she could have had the SNP pulling the Tory strings and in a much better place to dictate Brexit terms. It would be Scotland getting a nice cash bung for things she doesn’t care about like education and the NHS. A lot of SNP policies are quite conservative (little ‘c’) so the match isn’t that bad it couldn’t be managed. She could have had real power and put Scotland in the driving seat but again she backed herself into a corner.

Grumpy – not at all. After the GE she said she would have a think on the result but the whole ” indyref 2 put on back burner” is nothing more than a made up newspaper story.

Sturgeon is in a very strong position in Scotland with wins in all elections for years.; Nothing like May.

I suspect her time left isn’t all that much more than May’s.

I’m sure May can only dream of having the kind of majority sturgeon commands, indeed she did, she thought she’d get that.

Zombie Maybot is a hollow shell of a PM, tarnishing the UK and her party, only on the job because no other tory wants that shit sandwich
Sturgeons still got plenty of spunk left in her!

I suspect her time left isn’t all that much more than May’s

What utter hokum.

It would be Scotland getting a nice cash bung for things she doesn’t care about like education and the NHS.

This is jamba levels of bollocks 😆

I don’t even think Jamba could envision a scenario where Sturgeon propped up a Tory government.

Still as an idea its not completely without merit assuming your willing to abandon all your existing promises and political principles in order to retain power.

Someone like that would fit right in with the current government

grumpysculler – Member

if Sturgeon had played her cards better then she could have had the SNP pulling the Tory strings and in a much better place to dictate Brexit terms.

In which alternative universe?

I don’t even think Jamba could envision a scenario where Sturgeon propped up a Tory government.

Perish the thought indeed.

Sturgeon is going nowhere and neither will her calls for Iny Ref 2, as Ruth Davidson says Sturgeon wakes up every morning thinking of how Scotland can be an Independent country.

epicyclo – Member
After being sceptical about IRA support within the independence movement, what do I see today, but several mentions of Connolly’s execution on 12 May 1916 on various independence threads on FB.

Why does Scotland’s independence have to be polluted on both sides by Irish grudges? It is bugger all to do with them, and all to do with our democracy.

Since you know Scottish history so well, you should probably know why. People feel it is, correctly, part of their identity.

It’s a bit like you going on about the clearances, people have a connection to their own generational pasts..

Scotland never has been an “independent” country and it never will be, it’s people will always have connections to the outside, both present and historical.

We should embrace that.

, as Ruth Davidson says Sturgeon wakes up every morning thinking of how Scotland can be an Independent country.

Ill bet Ruth thinks about her tory colleagues in westminster & does the same 😉

Scotland never an independent country? really?

tjagain – Member
Scotland never an independent country? really?

you’re missing my point.

Another point on the history(you’re unlikey to hear about )what did james connolly have to do with scotland, well he was born in edinburgh, but he also wasn’t the only connection, there were strong links to scotland. Peoples lives and history don’t just exist within political boundaries.

Apparently they used to use cathkin braes for training purposes. I’d also imagine alot of the activity would have been fund raising and logistics and activity would have been uk wide.

The IRA in Scotland had 2,500 Volunteers that were organised into 5 battalion areas. These are listed below. A full membership roll exists in a private collection. The Scottish Brigade of the Old IRA was formed in 1934 and continued into the 1960s. In 1960 it erected a Celtic Cross in memory of the Scottish Brigade in St. Fintan’s Cemetery, Sutton, County Dublin.
FIRST BATTALION
A Company, Maryhill,Glasgow. Drilled in Banba Hall, Maryhill Road.
B Coy, Bridgeton, Glasgow. Drill Hall, Castle Street. Known as the ‘Sandhurst’ or ‘West Point’ of the IRA in Scotland.
C Coy, Govan and Kinning Park, 1918-1923. Drilled in Boilermakers Hall, later hall in Queen Street, Govan.
D Coy, 1918-1922. Baillieston, Shettleston, Tollcross and Parkhead.
E Coy 1918-1923. Uddingston, and Mossend.
F Coy. 1918-1923. Clydebank, Dalmuir, Paisley, Duntocher, Barrhead.
G Coy. 1918-1923. Glasgow Central. Paraded in hall in Renfield Street, and Terence MacSiney Hall, Anderston.
H Coy. 1918-1923. Cambuslang, Wellshot, Carmyle and Rutherglen.
I Coy. 1918-1923. Renton, Alexandria, Cardross and Kirkintilloch.
SECOND BATTALION
A Coy. 1919-1923. Motherwell and Craigneuk.
B Coy. 1919-1923. Wishaw and Newmains.
C Coy. 1919-1923. Blantyre and Bothwell.
D Coy. 1919-1922 Coatbridge, Airdrie, Whifflet and Calderbank,
E Coy. 1919-1922. Hamilton, Larkhall, Burnbank and Cadzow.
F Coy. 1920-1922. Bellshill, Mosssend, Holytown, New Stevenston.
G Coy. Cadzow.
H Coy. 1919-1923. Cleland and Carfin.
THIRD BATTTALION
A Coy. 1919-1923. City of Edinburgh, Leith and Portobello.
B Coy. 1919-1922. Broxburn, Philipstown, Winchburgh, Bathgate, Blackburn, Niddrie, Shotts, Uphall, Linlithgow.
C Coy. 1919-1922. Mid and West Calder, Soneyburn and Addiewell.
D Coy. 1919-1923. Falkirk.
E Coy. 1919-1923. Bannockburn, Denny, Bonnybridge, Cowie, Stirlingshire.
FOURTH BATTALION
D Coy. Dundee and district.
Coy (not alotted). Buckhaven, Methilhill, Lochgelly, Cowdenbeath, Lochore, Kinross-shire.
FIFTH BATTALION
B Company. 1920-1923. Greenock, Gourock and Port Glasgow. Paraded in St Mary’s Hall and Duncan Street Hall

So aye history exists, no point in denying it*, or thinking your own vision of it is supreme.

*that doesn’t mean cheer lead it and continue the propaganda, but we should absolutely try to understand and accept it(peoples experiences will vary, history is very much relative to the ones perception).

seosamh77

Expain it then. I am sure from the little history I know that there were several periods when Scotland was a truely independent and unified country.

There always been cross border relationships. Put it this way should you give up you English heritage and adhere to a scottish only viewpoint? I put the term in inverted commas to emphasise that i didn’t mean political boundaries. Diversity isn’t just a modern concept.

So by that standard England has never been an independent country either?

So sturgeons speech in Holyrood today shows that she has not shelved the prospect of another independence referendum but the timetable remains the same – one when the brexit terms are known. So much for the newspaper bollox. Only change is she is delaying bringing forward the motion in holyrood to concentrate on making the case for Scotland to remain in the single market and challenging the unionist parties all of whom support this ( unless Davidson has changed her mind) to fight for Scotland to remain in the single market. Not bad politics as she has taken away some of the unionst parties targets.

tjagain – Member
So by that standard England has never been an independent country either?

whoooshh.

So that’s what the borris bounce means

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/bombshell-scottish-independence-poll-reveals-18829998

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/bombshell-scottish-independence-poll-reveals-18829998

There are a few kicking about no doubt, but that must be the most unflattering photo of Nicola Sturgeon they could get their hands on!

I’d rather see polling at least 60% for independence, though I don’t know if any 16-17 year old or foreign nationals were included in that polling, both groups tending to support the Yes option.

Neither should we ignore the capability of the Scottish people to shoot themselves in the foot.

Again.

not really a bombshell is it. Nothing to do with Boris though.

From a poll of 1000 people. Not representative at all.

You do realise how polls work?

From a poll of 1000 people. Not representative at all.

Face. Palm.

I agree Colin, needs to be nearer 60%.

I agree, we should have some sort of poll where we just ask everyone.

And as far as I can tell this poll didn’t include 16 and 17 year olds or EU nationals.

52/48 – doesn’t that put it in ‘will of the people’ territory then…

😂

I’d rather see polling at least 60%…

I’d vote Yes again, but I think the last 3 years have proved that’s a good principle for any referendum that will result in a major change that is going to be difficult to reverse. It’s daft to be making such important decisions on simple majorities.

Yes again here too. Brexit, Boris, his predecessors, the last three years are strengthening the case for Indy.

‘Don’t waste this time’, which is exactly what they did.

The bit that’s missing for me in all this is the HOW. How would we suddenly become part of the EU after we voted for independence, as I understand it all the other 27 states need to agree on a vote and it takes quite a long time (years, 10 years i saw once?). I’m all for it BUT i’m a details person so would be interested in the detail of the actual implementation of independence. How will currency transfer work and transfer pricing for companies like mine ? I know politicians are working only on the emotional feeling parts to gain support but as we are seeing now the detail is QUITE important.

We got mired in HOW the last time, and then the Brexit campaign completely ignored any experts that questioned ‘the how’ during that complete shitstorm.

SNP published a whitepaper that detailed the how, and rightly some of it was dissected. Again, no such thing was published for the shitstorm.

There is no question that economically Scotland can be an independant country – and that’s quoting Osbourne and Cameron btw, and I’m pretty sure we’d get access to the single market even if it does take time.

I really don’t give a flying **** about details now, we’re not North Korea ffs, we’ll be fine, even if it costs in the short term I believe we’d be better off in the long term. Being controlled by a bunch of millionaires 300 miles away isn’t really working any more.

I think Brexit has a lot of lessons for Sexit.
The “it’ll be alright” thing doesn’t wash. NZCol is right – we need some details and agreements, both on how it’d work with the rest of the UK and Europe. While there is negotiation and posture there, I think a second confirmatory referendum before fully committing is a good thing.

We also need to be aware that there will be costs, and a (hopefully) a certain time to recoup them and get to where we want to be as a country.
And some people can’t afford to take that hit – how do we make sure they don’t go below the poverty line etc?