the recent swing in the polls as more a vote of no confidence in uk governance over the last couple of years, and in particular this last year than anything else.

What? you don’t belive in the union anymore? despite evidence to the opposite? heheh.

I wish scotland good luck, I really do. I’m not going to pretend to understand the intracacies of scottish politics, because I don’t, but damn they have a good reason to leave england.

Mayabe Scotland, Wales and ireland can form some sort of coalition against the English.

Mayabe Scotland, Wales and ireland can form some sort of coalition against the English.

Yes because everyone knows the English are awful, especially the English

big_n_daft
Free Member
Mayabe Scotland, Wales and ireland can form some sort of coalition against the English.

Yes because everyone knows the English are awful, especially the English

You’re almost as bad as epi with the victimhood btw. 😆

You’re almost as bad as epi with the victimhood btw

You should see what Mancunians say about scousers.

You should see what Mancunians say about scousers.

It was when I was in Poland in the early 90’s that I realised that everyone looks down on somebody (Georgians if I remember), except I’ve never worked out who Scousers look down on.

except I’ve never worked out who Scousers look down on.

Everyone especially “woolybacks”

The SNP EU thing has me puzzled, they seemed to exhibit Corbyn levels of effort during the referendum

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17972264.snp-spent-shetland-byelection-eu-referendum/

Did they triangulate the best outcome for them or the UK?

No they thought (wrongly) that remain would win. The remain campaign was low key because it didn’t need to be anything special. The leave campaign in Scotland was ineffective quite a large per centage of the leave vote in Scotland being from a centre left perspective and therefore dismayed by the lunacy of Boris Farage etc

big_n_daft
By Scots or the English? I’m sure it was all the nasty English….

Of course it wasn’t. History shows there’s always some people who will take the Judas coin. The French have a word for them.

Really…. No English place names referring to the fortified nature of the town…..

Loads of them, dating back to the occupation of England by the Romans for the purpose of keeping the inhabitants docile. QED.

Ironic with the Scottish plantation of Ulster and all that….

So that makes it ok in the modern world?

BTW at much the same time James VI passed an Act to exterminate my ancestors on the Isle of Lewis. The Act authorised resorting to “slaughter, mutilation, fire-raising or other inconveniences.” It authorised them to do anything that would be necessary for “rooting out the barbarous inhabitants.” Not a single clause in the Act mentioned any means for improving the lot of the islanders. The intention was to exterminate us and replace us with English speaking Lowlanders.

Because troops have never been called out to quell unrest in England….

Scotland got much worse reaction for unrest than Peterloo. The UK govt hasn’t conducted active genocide campaigns in England, have they?

That of course is old history, but what it demonstrates is that when a people does not have control over its government, then shit can and will happen when protest happens.

BIg and daft – but Scotland voted 60+% to remain

BTW at much the same time James VI passed an Act to exterminate my ancestors on the Isle of Lewis. The Act authorised resorting to “slaughter, mutilation, fire-raising or other inconveniences.” It authorised them to do anything that would be necessary for “rooting out the barbarous inhabitants.” Not a single clause in the Act mentioned any means for improving the lot of the islanders. The intention was to exterminate us and replace us with English speaking Lowlanders.

What like all 1-2000 of them? 😆

Bit iffy to be taking personal ownership of history considering the numbers of ancestors we all have going back that far.

@seosamh Oh, this is your victimhood meme.

So what?

It doesn’t matter how many, what matters is that they were lined up for extermination by a government that was remote to them.

It demonstrates the need for government to be as local as possible, rather than distant.

The actions that lead up to the Clearances are an equally good example.

Or what happened at Glencoe.

Wonder if the SNP will make anything of this?

The Brexit agreement mean NI gets different treatment.

ARTICLE 6 OF THE TREATY OF UNION 1707
“VI. That all parts of the United Kingdom for ever, from and after the Union, shall have the same allowances, encouragements, and drawbacks, and be under the same prohibitions, restrictions and regulations of trade and liable to the same customs and duties on import and export; and that the allowances encouragements and drawbacks.” …..

It would seem there are possible breaches of the act of union. does this give the independence movement another line of attack?

epicyclo
Full Member

@seosamh Oh, this is your victimhood meme.

So what?

It doesn’t matter how many, what matters is that they were lined up for extermination by a government that was remote to them.

It demonstrates the need for government to be as local as possible, rather than distant.

The actions that lead up to the Clearances are an equally good example.

Or what happened at Glencoe.

It has zero relevance to the questions at hand.

tjagain
Full Member

It would seem there are possible breaches of the act of union. does this give the independence movement another line of attack?

It’s not the first time is it? I mean yes it’s an angle of attack but it’s not a constitutional crisis or anything, just something to score some points.

Edit – apologies, cut and paste went crazy!

It has zero relevance to the questions at hand.

Apart from giving some understanding of some folks position and why?

The gift that just keeps giving….

Go on yersel big man

I love the reference to the UK national health service. Its devolved! there is no UK NHS

Watching people scramble to try and make that comment not a) incredibly insulting and b) just totally untrue (and so obviously untrue that nobody could say it without either knowing it’s a lie or being an absolute moron), is quite funny. “What he meant to say, was”.

Johnson.

He’s well named.

He did actually mention that we were ahead of the rest of Europe.

I don’t think anyone doubts that. We may be talking about different things though.

Interesting poll in the scotsman – remambering the Scotsman is a tory supporting unionist paper and even spun it makes bad reading for the tories

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/analysis-why-are-scottish-tories-failing-make-inroads-snp-dominance-3100565

key points – tories to lose half their seats in Holyrood, some tory voters trust the SNP more than the tories on education and health

Tee hee

The Brexit agreement mean NI gets different treatment.

Hmm, Northern Ireland citizens have had different rights to us on the mainland for years – especially women and gays.

Two things to say regarding that article. Firstly it’s fairly widely reckoned that somewhere between 20-30% of labour voters support independence. Secondly that Labour voters and activists felt burned by allying with the Tories in BetterTogether the poll seems to bear that out.

There richard leonard just quit as leader.

Whose turn is it now?

Or have they gone through all their MSPs and have to start at the beginning again?

. Secondly that Labour voters and activists felt burned by allying with the Tories in BetterTogether

Not just that but the tory / labour non aggression pact for the last but one Westminster election now is seen as a total blunder as the ten tories that got elected led to may being able to continue

Leonard is a total fud. I don’t know of anyone who will be better. Hopefully not another west coast apparatchik but I don’t know who they have who could do better.

https://scottishlabour.org.uk/people/msps/

An inspiring bunch – not!

Is Boyack the best of the bunch? I am assuming Iain gray will not be standing again as he has had a shot. Sarwar?

Not sure why anyone would want the role in the run up to May. Can imagine them all trying to persuade each other to do it.

Sarwar would I am sure.

key points – tories to lose half their seats in Holyrood, some tory voters trust the SNP more than the tories on education and health

That must take some serious mental gymnastics. Scotland has worse outcomes than England for both education and health.

I reckon they’ll delay any leadership contest till the summer after the Holyrood election and probably won’t announce a winner till the autumn.

Richard Leonard gone, will anyone really notice?
Labour took Scottish votes for granted and got spectacularly out witted by the SNP and wee Ruth Davidson,then had no one of any value to bring life back to Scottish Labour. As TJ eloquently put it, Richard Leonard was always a useless fannie. Labour is dead in Scotland.
Sad

5th Elefant not such difficult gymnastics on health. Scotland’s NHS is rated highest in the UK and was seen a less vulnerable to privatisation than in England. The internal markets bill may have changed that last. Our poor health stats are often due to long term economic and social issues

The Brexit fishing shambles isn’t going to make this look any prettier

Scottish parliament, poll-based forecast:

SNP: 72 MSPs (+9 vs. 2016)
CON: 24 (-7)
LAB: 19 (-5)
GRN: 9 (+3)
LDEM: 5 (-)

Built by BE's very own @bnhw_, here's what we believe is the most likely outcome for the Holyrood elections based on current poll data.https://t.co/uEj3q47OMe pic.twitter.com/66ypjUBevg

— Britain Elects (@BritainElects) January 15, 2021

I would be surprised if tories get 24, the Scotsman poll would have them on 15

Its going to be a bit of ” who the flip do I vote for” election Fortunately my SNP msp is a good bloke unlike the diddy of an MP