I recently ordered a Schwalbe Big Betty in Super Trail compound but what arrived was a Schwalbe Big Betty in Super Gravity compound. The supplier has been really good and sent me a label to send them back and replace etc but before I do this I wondered if anyone has experience of riding both the above and was there a noticeable difference (draggy, heavier etc) between them?

The Super Trail is apparently scarce atm so if I cant swap them I may have to carry on through the winter with my existing Schwalbe Rock Razor on the rear.

I am no riding god so wondered if there was not much difference whether to just fit em up and use them but wont obviously be able to send them back if I finf out after fitting they are so draggy they feel like they are filled with concrete.

Thoughts?

I have an SG 2.4 Big Betty on the back of my HB160. The Super Gravity refers to the carcass strength. The Addix bit is the tread compound – Mine is the orange Soft. I like it a lot.

Certainly feels stiffer than the 2.6 Mary in Evo Super Trail Soft.

I think the clue is in the naming, gravity for downhill/bike parks and the trail for, well trail. having been through the confusing Schwalbe labelling, I went for super trial, not “super ground”. SG is light and thin.

PS, great tyres the rock razor, that was the super trail I bought, Chain Reaction was a reasonable price.

Mary Super Trail front/Betty Super Gravity rear on a hardtail for me.
Wouldn’t want to run the trail casing on the rear, feels very similar to a Maxxis Exo which just didn’t cut it on the back. Had some very scary sounding/feeling rim strikes with the Exo casing, no pinches but wasn’t risking it when it came to investing in new tyres. Super Gravity shrugs these of no drama. Nice damped feel to the Schwalbes and no noticeable effect when it comes to pedalling.

From a Bikeradar article in 2020;

Super Race – for cross-country and marathon racing
Super Ground – for down-country and light trail riding
Super Trail – for aggressive trail riding
Super Gravity – for enduro riding
Super Downhill – for downhill racing

As you go up the range, the casing strength / puncture protection gets better, but obviously the weight increases.

The compound (Addix Speed / Speedgrip / Soft / SuperSoft) will dictate the draggyness / grip.

I use gravity for enduro stuff and trail on the hardtail, it’s really just weight that’s the issue when fitted, it has the same tread pattern and compound, just thicker sidewalls.

One thing to note though, if running tubeless then gravity’s are harder to fit if never done before, there’s a little bit of a knack for fitting them as they’re pretty solid!

devash
Free Member

Super Race – for cross-country and marathon racing
Super Ground – for down-country and light trail riding
Super Trail – for aggressive trail riding
Super Gravity – for enduro riding
Super Downhill – for downhill racing

Yup, but in practice the supertrail isn’t that much usefully tougher than the superground- ime they’re pretty close together in the range, and then there’s a real big jump to the supergravity.

I recently ordered a Schwalbe Big Betty in Super Trail compound but what arrived was a Schwalbe Big Betty in Super Gravity compound. The supplier has been really good and sent me a label to send them back and replace etc but before I do this I wondered if anyone has experience of riding both the above and was there a noticeable difference (draggy, heavier etc) between them?

Assuming to go on the rear… Probably just run it. Weight difference is about the same as one of the lighter tyre inserts, Super Gravity has sturdier sidewalls. Both are the same compound and tread pattern, you shouldn’t notice any difference in rolling resistance in reality, you may or may not notice the 10% increase in weight depending on how perceptive you are. You should notice the sidewalls are stiffer and more supportive, which may or may not be a benefit depending on your point of view.

The Super Trail is apparently scarce atm so if I cant swap them I may have to carry on through the winter with my existing Schwalbe Rock Razor on the rear.

Tyres are scarce full stop at the moment. Don’t know where you ride, but I would rather not run a Rock Razor on the rear for my usual trails in the winter. Be fine if you only ride trail centres I guess. Up to you.

I am no riding god so wondered if there was not much difference whether to just fit em up and use them but wont obviously be able to send them back if I finf out after fitting they are so draggy they feel like they are filled with concrete.

Won’t feel like it’s filled with concrete, but it isn’t a light tyre. Mind you, the Super Trail version isn’t a lightweight XC tread anyway. Up to you… I’ll run a Super Trail on the rear of my trail bike but with a Rimpact insert inside, but that negates the weight difference of a Super Gravity tyre anyway. Some people prefer inserts, some don’t. If you are running inserts currently, you could consider running without with the Super Gravity carcass as it has more sidewall reinforcement.

I think the clue is in the naming, gravity for downhill/bike parks and the trail for, well trail. having been through the confusing Schwalbe labelling, I went for super trial, not “super ground”. SG is light and thin.

OK so it’s perhaps lost a little in translation, but it’s pretty simple to remember…

Super DH = DH casing (this hasn’t changed in a while in reality)
Super Gravity = Enduro/eBike/Gravity oriented casing (this has been the same for years too)
Super Trail = Trail casing (this was effectively new for the 2020 range, and is essentially the replacement for the old “Apex” sidewall version tyres)
Super Ground = General XC type riding (new for 2020 too, essentially replaced the old “Evolution” casing)
Super Race = XC race casing, light fast and with minimal protection (essentially new for 2020 and taken over from the old “Liteskin” case but substantially tougher and less porous for only a small weight gain).

Mary Super Trail front/Betty Super Gravity rear on a hardtail for me.

Good combo for most people on most bikes most of the time to be fair… 👍🏻

Wouldn’t want to run the trail casing on the rear, feels very similar to a Maxxis Exo which just didn’t cut it on the back.

It’s tougher than the Maxxis EXO casing, but a rim insert is advisable on the rear for harder riders I’d say. On the rear at least. On the front I prefer the more compliant casing and I don’t need the increased rim protection of a stiffer sidewall or a rim insert mostly.

I use gravity for enduro stuff and trail on the hardtail, it’s really just weight that’s the issue when fitted, it has the same tread pattern and compound, just thicker sidewalls.

Pretty much… 👍🏻

One thing to note though, if running tubeless then gravity’s are harder to fit if never done before, there’s a little bit of a knack for fitting them as they’re pretty solid!

Can depend on the rim. Yes, a stiffer sidewall tyre can typically be harder to fit, but often the stiffer sidewall will make for easier inflation once fitted. Depends on the rim though. Not all rims are created equal. ENVE or Hope Fortus for instance are particularly tight! A Super Gravity on either of those rims, with a CushCore insert inside… Now that can be a bit of a fight if you’re not incredibly methodical and resourceful!

Yup, but in practice the supertrail isn’t that much usefully tougher than the superground- ime they’re pretty close together in the range, and then there’s a real big jump to the supergravity.

The opposite is actually true… Super Trail is certainly closer to Super Gravity in use for most people than it is to Super Ground, and the weights reflect this too. Super Trail as I understand it, originated from customer feedback for a tyre that was lighter than a Super Gravity but tougher than an Evolution casing (as it was at the time), but those same consumers that said that was what they wanted have since criticised it for adding significant weight over and above an Evolution casing (or Super Ground) equivalent… You can’t please everyone of course, car manufcaturers experience the same when focus groups tell them that they want their new BMW 3 series to be bigger than the last one (what the consumers actually mean, is they want a 5 series for their next car, not actually a bigger 3 series!). Mazda in particular fell foul with the mk3 MX5 when they made it significantly heavier (albeit more powerful too) than the mk2 and mk1 versions, and for the mk4 they dropped 100kg of weight and made it smaller again to critical acclaim.

If anyone wants to PM me to talk tyres (it’s my job to be fair!) then by all means feel free to… Albeit please respect that I don’t sit on here 24/7 so my response might not be immediate.

The opposite is actually true… Super Trail is certainly closer to Super Gravity in use for most people than it is to Super Ground, and the weights reflect this too.

That’s not my experience, which was that the centre tread is still weak as a balloon like on the old evolution models. They’ve added sidewall strength but the tyre’s still as weak as its weakest part, ie, the middle- so in practice I wouldn’t use it for anything that I wouldn’t have used an old Snakeskin for, ie light trailbike duties.

The old Supergravity was a superb casing, they’ve basically replaced it with a gap in the range. New supergravity is much heavier, supertrail doesn’t come close.

Between Super Trail and Super Gravity there is 1 carcass layer of difference, 3 for the former and 4 for the latter.

Super Gravity = Enduro/eBike/Gravity oriented casing (this has been the same for years too)

Do you know for sure that the casing has remained the same as the previous Super Gravity tyres?

Would be useful to know when next buying rear tyres.

Many thanks all for the really detailed and helpful replies. Its been really useful.

I think I am going to fit the Big Betty Super Gravity on the rear now rather than try and swap for a Super Trail.

Will report back on how I get on with it.

Its got to be better than the Rock Razor SG I am currently running on the rear with the wet/mud etc at the moment.

I’d keep the Super Gravity and fit it to the bike, but also order the Super Trail if its still in stock just incase tyres completely dry up next year!

Re casings: This year I went from Super Gravity on the rear to Super Trail and have had no ill issues, spent the first half of the year mainly riding the rough enduro trails in the Risca/Cwmcarn area.

Does anyone know which size, 2.4/2.6 magic Mary’s is closest in size/volume to a dhf 2.5 wt? Don’t really want a massive 2.6 but I know they can vary a bit brand to brand and like the dhf 2.5 size.

chakaping

Do you know for sure that the casing has remained the same as the previous Super Gravity tyres?

New Super Gravity range is heavier by about 200g or so than before. Super Trail is on par (in weight) with Maxxiw DoubleDown.

New Super Gravity range is heavier by about 200g or so than before

I was under that impression myself, but I haven’t had a 29er one yet – and I know mboy works for Schwalbe so I was interested in what he had to say on them.

If you do need schwalbe tyres, have a look at merlin – they’ve seem to have a good selection in stock

chakaping
Full Member

Do you know for sure that the casing has remained the same as the previous Super Gravity tyres?

It definitely isn’t the same. The purpose is the same, but not the actual tyres, they’ve decided that to fill that role these days they want a heavier stronger tyre than they did when they made the original supergravity.

FWIW I reckon the new supergravity is really well done, it’s just that it’s now pretty purpose-specific and a lot more tyre than it used to be, whereas the outgoing model was a more practical everyday tyre.

For me I’d think of it as basically “enduro race”, for when you really really don’t want to flat, or if you’re brutal on tyres for whatever reason. Like, it’d be perfect for me for the Mega, or for my harder-use wheels that I use for uplift trips, or for a kinlochleven enduro, where I’d have used a full dh tyre before. But it’s more than I want to drag around for normal riding, where the “rarely get a puncture” of something like the old supergravity is a better balance for me

To me the range now goes xc tyre> light trail tyre> beefed up trail tyre> massive honkin enduro tyre>dh tyre, and pretty much skips over the “everyday enduro” slot that the old Supergravity just owned. So I’ve chased up old stock 🙂

Do you know for sure that the casing has remained the same as the previous Super Gravity tyres?

There have been minor incremental tweaks made over the years as I understand it, but very little in terms of carcass construction difference. The main reasons a 2021 Magic Mary/Big Betty weighs more than one from 3 years ago are 3 fold… Firstly, the tyres are now 2.4″ rather than 2.35″. You’d think this doesn’t count for much, but in combination with the second reason which is that theres more rubber on the tread patterns now (2.4 Mary has slightly deeper knobs than a 2.35″ and a touch more in the carcass too) that counts for the bulk of it. The third reason is that quoted weights are a little more realistic now than they used to be…

It definitely isn’t the same sadly.

It’s very very nearly the same, so near that it makes very little difference to most people. The larger changes have been made, as I have listed above, that have impacted on the weight of the tyres.

The old Supergravity was a superb casing, they’ve basically replaced it with a gap in the range. New supergravity is much heavier, supertrail doesn’t come close.

I understand that experience is subjective, but from a manufacturers point of view, the gap has been filled nicely. Have you tried a Super Trail version with a tyre insert perhaps? I run this setup on my own trail bike in the rear and find I prefer it to a Super Gravity and it’s still got plenty enough protection. I run Super Gravity with an insert on the rear of my eBike de facto though as that rear wheel gets a real battering!

” Have you tried a Super Trail version with a tyre insert perhaps?”

My issue with the supertrail was the weakness of the centre, so it wouldn’t help. Like I say, it’s as weak as the weakest part and centre tread flats aren’t something I’ve ever had a problem with other tyres of this weight class.

According to schwalbe, the supertrail just adds the apex sidewall protection but is otherwise the same as the superground- I’m sure there’s more nuance than that in practice, maybe you can shed some light on that, but that’s definitely how it worked out for me.