lets face it – we all know (id love to be told different but don’t think for 1 minute I will) that paypal will not refund money willy nilly, in such a short period of time, and with no contact to you who seemingly were paid the money.

so it kinda rules out that scenario almost instantly

the 3rd so called proper buyer, hasn’t come kicking off at you, other then ‘wheres my bike’ if it were me/you/any one on here, there would be rage, accusations flown and generally not letting it lie

once he realised you weren’t a pushover/easy target he’s been left no choice but to move on, and hence why its for sale again elsewhere

a very slick scam indeed

however if it turns out paypal have refunded the guy I take it all back, but I think we all know deep down that’s not the case

If they are the same person has a crime been committed?

He sent the OP some money and the OP sent him a bike. Is ‘attempted fraud’ an offense? Must be some sort of ‘conspiracy to commit…’? Would plod be interested? Needs caught before he does it to someone else.

a very slick scam indeed

Is it? To buy a bike on the off chance he might be able to get the money back as well? Otherwise just be left with the hassle of a bike to sell on! Doesn’t sound like the cleverest scam. Especially as, if anyone did refund the money, they’d have an address which they’d give to the police in an attempt to recover the bike.

Weird one. I did google in case this was a common occurrence like most scams but couldn’t find anything!

Can’t imagine they’d be interested as the ‘buyer’ never actually asked me to cough up. I did chuck in PP gift being an issue early doors though. All very strange and unfortunately they/he will con money out of people in the future.

The slick bit of the scam was how all the parts fitted together without raising suspicion. If you’d seen the various conversations via messenger that went back and forth you’d see what I mean. As for having someone’s address, I imagine the ‘buyer’ would just vanish after getting the money and the scammer would play dumb.

Think the bike is now listed on MTB bay on Facebook.  By a young lady from Southport/Liverpool

Yep, was made aware of that listing today and it’s the same bike. At least they managed to take their own pictures this time.

Even though I’m not out of pocket it makes me sad to see a bike I really liked being punted about like this. Almost want to buy it back!

Buy it back (it’ll go for half what you sold it for), then resell it thru decent channels again. Make a profit from the scammer(s).

Not so sure it was slick scam. Sounds more like they screwed up to me. Assuming there’s not a late theft of the money by Paypal some time soon.

Yep, was made aware of that listing today and it’s the same bike. At least they managed to take their own pictures this time.

Ebay used to have a “report this item” for things that were listed elsewhere… it’s against their policies. Worth a look if they still have it on ebay as well.

Of course it is possible that these criminal masterminds are not actual bona fide geniuses and have somehow come up with a get rich quick scheme in which they don’t make anything at all.

I think this guy might have contacted me the other night, he asked about a bike I was selling then eventually asked if I would deliver to Southport. I said nope and deleted the conversation as a timewaster but didn’t put two and two together until now.

Sorry to hijack, I’ve got some bits to sell, should I only send it to the registered paypal address or ebay address?  What if they differ?

Providing you are selling to the person and not his mate I imagine you will be ok as long as you keep proof and make sure the parcel is signed for.

Don’t think they/he are geniuses but they seem to have various scams on the go that are probably lucrative enough to take a deal like mine on the chin. Splitting the bike would still probably make them money.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/727706997367045/permalink/1196820117122395/?sale_post_id=1196820117122395  …  am i right leaving this here

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F183477769511

Yes Rob, that’s my old bike pictured at my house by me. Unfortunately I have nothing to do with the listing that’s using my pictures and eBay don’t seem to give a stuff.

 Unfortunately I have nothing to do with the listing that’s using my pictures and eBay don’t seem to give a stuff.

On that, I’m not remotely surprised and, to be honest, in itself I don’t particularly see a problem, since the photos are of the item in question.

I’ve done the same myself a couple of times when I’ve bought stuff that’s not fitted and rather than take new photos I’ve just re-advertised them using the photos from the original listing, why is that something you’d expect eBay to have an issue with? I’ve seen others even link back to old listings when they can’t be bothered to do their own.

Another update for this one. As was suggested earlier, the bloke who didn’t get his bike has had his money refunded via his bank so Paypal have taken the money from me. This should be fun to try and sort out. FFS.

Hmm  – that’s interesting & certainly worth noting if accepting PayPal gift 🤔

You’re telling me. I’m starting to think they were defo both in on it and have my money and my bike, which they’ve now sold via ebay using my pictures. Paypal quoting sellers protection rather than buyers protection with regards to ‘PP Gift’. That’s me done with selling online, too many scumbags about. I’m furious! Bet the Police, Paypal and Ebay do f all too.

That is an absolute shitter – a cautionary tale indeed 😞

What an absolute shite deal, must be a nightmare.

Does the bike class as stolen again now since the funds have gone?

Ouch ouch ouch! Feel for you bud though not entirely surprised PayPal have claimed back… There was no way they’d just give him the money back and not get it back somehow

So for those saying it wasn’t a clever scam… Well it really was and worked a treat

**** scum bags sadly think your screwed as police won’t be interested and PayPal won’t help you

 Paypal quoting sellers protection rather than buyers protection with regards to ‘PP Gift’.

I don’t understand this bit – surely if the money was sent “gift” there is neither a buyer nor a seller?

I don’t understand this bit – surely if the money was sent “gift” there is neither a buyer nor a seller?

The distinction between regular/gift is something only PayPal make, it’s not a real thing as far as the bank is concerned. They just see a (fraudulent) transaction. This is why it’s vital to follow the PP rules/process if you want their backup. (easy to say in hindsight 🙁 ).

Yes, as above, PP basically told me I have no sellers protection as used gift. Always assumed it was the buyer taking the risk but you live and learn!

On with the Police now so we will see what happens. I really can’t afford to lose both the bike and £835 right now.

Probably explains why they used PP Friends and Familly – knew the bank and Paypal would claw it back?

Everyones worst nightmare chestrockwell. Hope you persist with the Police to follow up on this.

I’m sure this is a naive question but, can the police not demand both the details of the seller and latest buyer of your bike fromEbay and PayPal?

Could the scammer be traced through the bank details provided to Ebay and/or Paypal?

Could the buyers details not be used to seize the bike as stolen property? Or is this to much hard work for modern policing?

Unless the police think the scammer is involved in something bigger and this is a way in they are unlikely to follow it up. To many variables to make an easy prosecution means it will cost more than its worth – something the scammers also know. Twice I’ve had Sky TV accounts set up using my stolen credit card details clearly showing the address of the perps with no follow up by either the banks or the police. Just refunded my money and not even an apology for their shoddy systems not being secure. Its just not worth the time for the cops as they know that even if by some miracle they get the case to court the scum will wriggle out on a technicality.

My only hope if that they recover the bike from the ebay sale as it is easily traceable and I have provided all details of frame numbers etc but unfortunately I expect Winston will be right and however easy it would be to chase up they just won’t bother. Feeling really flat now, gutted. What’s the point of having nice things if some one can pinch them in pretty much broad daylight and get away without Ebay, Paypal and possibly the Police making the slightest effort to recover them? You can see why there’s so many scumbags about when it’s so easy to make money that way.

I don’t want to be harsh, but it really isn’t anything to do with PayPal. Someone just emailed you a random address & you posted a bike to them. PP have systems in place to stop this happening, but to use them you have to pay their fees, which is fair enough IMO.

I agree the scamming scumbags suck balls though 🙁