Search the forum using the power of Google

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 62 total)
  • Saving the national grid
  • footflaps
    Full Member

    Anyone else getting paid to use less power tonight…

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/jan/24/british-households-businesses-cut-power-use-national-grid

    Been a sunny day here, so our battery will see us through till about 8pm.

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2ode4C3]Opt in[/url] by Ben Freeman, on Flickr

    kelvin
    Full Member

    What I don’t understand is… if you’re already doing some demand shifting, to try and use electricity when the energy balance is shifted towards renewables (and that mostly means away from times of peak demand), do you still benefit from this? Or is it mostly for people who usually have everything on at peak time, and paying them to do otherwise?

    IHN
    Full Member

    Yeah, we’re signed up tonight and were last night too. Thing is, we hardly use any power during those times anyway (we don’t start cooking dinner until about half six), so it’s very tricky to use less power than not very much 🙁

    kelvin
    Full Member

    That’s what I was wondering. We make sure the dishwasher and washing machine never come on at peak times… despite it making no financial difference to us, just trying to avoid adding to demand for gas and coal on the grid… but presumably people that do run their big stuff at peak times can get money for not doing so, where as people already trying to acting in such a way for environment reasons can not?

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Thing is, we hardly use any power during those times anyway (we don’t start cooking dinner until about half six), so it’s very tricky to use less power than not very much

    Yes, it’s a bit weird, but to maximise my £ payout I need to ensure I use as much power as possible at peak times outside of their offer periods….

    At the moment, if it’s a clear day, the battery lasts till about 8pm unless I go to our workshop gym (which was 2C last night and whack on a couple of 3 kWh fan heaters, which drain the battery in about 15 mins).

    Daffy
    Full Member

    Ovo never contacted us and don’t have a way to sign up to it. We usually do use most of our power between 17:00 and 19:00, but thanks to the sun being out, we’ve not used any grid power in the last 2 days and probably won’t until about 05:00 tomorrow morning.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    That’s what I was wondering. We make sure the dishwasher and washing machine never come on at peak times… despite it making no financial difference, just trying to avoid adding to demand for gas and coal on the grid… but presumably people that do run their big stuff at peak times can get money for not doing so, where as people already trying to acting in such a way for environment reasons can not?

    Yep – a bit perverse…

    irc
    Full Member

    Yes perverse. But no more than building a grid that doesn’t work when the wind drops

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    but presumably people that do run their big stuff at peak times can get money for not doing so, where as people already trying to acting in such a way for environment reasons can not?

    No point encouraging people who are already doing what you want them to to change behaviour.

    I’d wager most of the people who will see the financial benefits are those with kids (young ones especially), who come home at 4, switch everything in the house on and want to eat at 6-6.30.

    In that there time period I expect the majority of non child owners probably won’t even be home from work.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    But no more than building a grid that doesn’t work when the wind drops

    The grid predates the addition of (useful) wind power by some decades….

    Great 4x 15min documentary on it on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAGiJroS1iI&t=2s

    NB No credit card nor porn sign up required….

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    As I have batteries and solar, I’m already using zero power at this time so am ineligible. It’s a backwards system that rewards people who routinely use excess power at inappropriate times of day.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Indeed it benefits others more than it benefits us – but agreed that I am not convinced it is us who need to change much…

    phiiiiil
    Full Member

    I think this scheme is a good idea; what isn’t so good is that there are very few tariffs out there at the moment which would benefit those who basically act like this all the time. We accept variable prices that come and go with demand for most things, so why not this? We should be incentivising people to do stuff outside peak hours all the time, not just during these one-off events.

    We’re on Octopus Go Faster (until it runs out next month) so we don’t really benefit from these events much, but then we’ve already benefited enormously from getting cheap off-peak power anyway.

    Getting more people onto time of use tariffs, and getting everybody used to the idea that electricity is cheaper when it’s less in demand, would surely be a good thing.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    I think this scheme is a good idea; what isn’t so good is that there are very few tariffs out there at the moment which would benefit those who basically act like this all the time.

    I think part of the problem is that the big suppliers are also generators who benefit from been paid a small fortune to provide extra power in peak times, so they have no interest in smoothing out the peaks.

    Octopus, who isn’t a generator, has no vested interest in keeping peaks peaky.

    surfer
    Free Member

    As I have batteries and solar, I’m already using zero power at this time so am ineligible. It’s a backwards system that rewards people who routinely use excess power at inappropriate times of day.

    yep. See also overnight cheap tarifs for drivers.

    Daffy
    Full Member

    Flaperon
    Full Member
    As I have batteries and solar, I’m already using zero power at this time so am ineligible. It’s a backwards system that rewards people who routinely use excess power at inappropriate times of day.

    That’s a remarkably myopic point of view. A LOT of people use power at this time because it’s when work ends and everyone comes home. It’s also when almost anyone with younger children will have to cook dinner if you want to get them to bed early. Many people who’re working physical jobs might also be hungry when they get home. Just saying, it’s not an inappropriate time, it’s just the way society is set up. Some people have jobs/families/circumstances which avoid it (we used to eat at 20:00 or 21:00 before kids and my current job), some don’t. Don’t vilify them for it.

    seriousrikk
    Full Member

    Flaperon
    Full Member
    As I have batteries and solar, I’m already using zero power at this time so am ineligible. It’s a backwards system that rewards people who routinely use excess power at inappropriate times of day.

    Why are those times of day inappropriate?
    Who says they are?
    What classes as excess power?

    paton
    Free Member

    thankfully there is enough coal and gas to charge peoples electric cars
    https://grid.iamkate.com/

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    Ovo never contacted us and don’t have a way to sign up to it.

    Ovo been doing power move since sept .

    Which is less tha 12.5% of your daily power use between 4-7.

    So far we have been about 1.2% used between 4-7.

    20 quid back each month over the 5 months.

    Thus by design we don’t qualify for this latest load shift as our usage is already minimal between 4-7

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    thankfully there is enough coal and gas to charge peoples electric cars

    So glad we’re moving to zero carbon cars….

    irc
    Full Member

    The grid predates the addition of (useful) wind power by some decades….

    The unreliable grid needing people to reduce use at peak times follows wind power though.

    https://davidturver.substack.com/p/exposing-the-hidden-costs-of-renewables?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

    muddyjames
    Free Member

    What’s a unit of power- kWh?

    When’s the reference point to cut down from?

    footflaps
    Full Member

    What’s a unit of power- kWh?

    When’s the reference point to cut down from?

    With Octopus, 1) yes and 2) your previous usage in that period.

    Jamze
    Full Member

    The unreliable grid needing people to reduce use at peak times follows wind power though.

    I was working on radio teleswitch systems nearly forty years ago that shifted demand from peak to base load, so no, not a new thing.

    intheborders
    Free Member

    Would I put off eating for 1-2 hours for a payment of £4 – nope.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    Would I put off eating for 1-2 hours for a payment of £4 – nope.

    That’s not what’s being asked though is it ?

    spooky_b329
    Full Member

    I can’t get on this scheme as my energy provider is dragging by their heels on a smart meter.

    I get home and charge my work EV, so it would be very easy to pause it for a couple of hours when they offer the payments and I could claim about 6kwh per hour.

    Daffy
    Full Member

    Ovo been doing power move since sept .

    Which is less tha 12.5% of your daily power use between 4-7.

    but you can’t opt in unless invited.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    No you had to register interest before it started. Can’t join in half way through.

    Every one I know who registered got invited.

    phiiiiil
    Full Member

    Would I put off eating for 1-2 hours for a payment of £4 – nope.

    Then don’t do it.

    We made dinner in the slow cooker instead of the oven or hob so will get a few quid back with no inconvenience at all.

    littledave
    Free Member

    I am up to £32 earned so far with Octopus, and I was not wasting energy beforehand.
    My heating is by Air Source Heat Pump so electricity rather than gas, by setting the heating to holiday mode I can significantly cut energy use during the high demand periods.
    Make sure the house is sufficiently warm by late afternoon and the heat pump can be switched off for 1 or 2 hours without the house significantly cooling down.
    This type of demand shifting will become more significant if / when a greater proportion of heating is electric.

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    What’s a unit of power- kWh?

    No that is a unit of energy, kW is a unit of power.

    bikesandboots
    Full Member

    but presumably people that do run their big stuff at peak times can get money for not doing so, where as people already trying to acting in such a way for environment reasons can not?

    No point encouraging people who are already doing what you want them to to change behaviour.

    Would be fairer to penalise them for heavy consumption rather than reward them (with other consumers’ money) for lightening their consumption. I can imagine the outrage of that being “unfair” though!

    robertajobb
    Full Member

    No..what os needed is a decent capacity of energy storage to store the energy generated at off peak times by renewable, to use at peak times to manage the Peaks.

    Yet another example of strategic infrastructure that the Gov hasn’t bothered sorting because its been too busy **** itself off repeatedly over leaving the EU and dodging tax.

    spooky_b329
    Full Member

    penalise them for heavy consumption rather than reward them (with other consumers’ money)

    It says the Grid expects to pay £3 million in incentives for Monday and Tuesday.

    How much does it cost to warm up a coal fired power station in case they are needed? A news article says they paid Drax £420 million to keep two coal power stations on standby this winter and they’ve stockpiled an extra 400,000 tons of coal. That’s a lot of incentives and if it saves on standby power stations then it’s not a cost to the consumer (sorry, to the National Grid, who’s profits are up 50% to £1.6 billion)

    Also, is it fair to penalise heavy users when many will have electric heating, or have tried to be green by getting an EV?

    onehundredthidiot
    Full Member

    We did it last night we had to reduce .82kWh to .57kWh over the 90minute hour.
    Did one a few weeks ago and were rewarded with 43p doesn’t really dent the £350 bill.

    whatgoesup
    Full Member

    No..what os needed is a decent capacity of energy storage to store the energy generated at off peak times by renewable, to use at peak times to manage the Peaks.

    It’s not quite as binary as that. Energy storage is expensive and typically inefficient. In any decently balanced system such as the grid is trying to be it makes a lot of sense to smooth demand as much as is feasible and then use storage and/or intermittent power sources to deal with the remaining peaks and troughs. Incentivizing demand smoothing at the end user level (houses in this case) makes a lot of sense – see the increase in home batteries etc, and with EVs starting to offer bi-directional charging it starts to be feasible to use the EV batteries themselves as part of a local storage solution.

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    Energy storage is expensive and typically inefficient.

    Fit every new house with battery storage and solar and problem largely solved. Subsidise retrofit schemes for batteries. Maybe using that corrupt failed battery production project for home batteries instead of car batteries?

    Unfortunately the right people aren’t giving politicians (on both sides) sufficient bribes and education to make it happen.

    Solar works even in the winter in the south of the UK. My dad has 20 panels on his farm buildings and has generated more than a gigawatt-hour of electricity in the last six months. The electricity use by the farm is almost zero thanks to some big storage batteries, and the export covers most of the daytime use by his neighbours.

    dirtyrider
    Free Member

    We make sure the dishwasher and washing machine never come on at peak times… despite it making no financial difference to us, just trying to avoid adding to demand for gas and coal on the grid…

    people really think like this?

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Fit every new house with battery storage and solar and problem largely solved

    Hardly cheap and the payback on solar + battery is pretty long (> 10 years typically).

    Integrating electric car batteries into the grid might be more cost efficient, as people are going to have those anyway….

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 62 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Search the forum using the power of Google

Thanks for popping by - why not stay a while?IT'S FREE

Sign up as a Singletrack Member and you can leave comments on stories, use the classified ads, and post in our forums, do quizzes and more.

Join us, join in, it’s free, and fun.