Salmond's green energy future for Scotland dream gets a bashing…

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  • Salmond's green energy future for Scotland dream gets a bashing…
  • Premier Icon bigjim
    Subscriber

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-15548775

    Not surprising but maybe a bit worrying for everyone in the industry at a time when investment is essential. I guess it is only one adviser opinion though…

    mrmo
    Member

    I guess the issue is why not buy from france instead? Assuming that England and companies such as EDF, (electrictie de france) would have to use scottish resources is a little naive. Mind you assuming that you have to use British power is equally naive.

    mafiafish
    Member

    Nah, they’ll be able to afford it with all the oil and haggis export money. But you’re right. Renewable UK’s compiled data from companies shows worry over investment and policy uncertainty as the main hindrances to green technology companies.

    Increased oil prices/ economies of scale and R&D will make renewables much more competitive with reduced subsidies too.

    If anyone in Europe can make wind work then Scotland can.

    CaptJon
    Member

    If anyone in Europe can make wind work then Scotland can.

    Is that because of the climate? expertise? or all TJ’s hot air?

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    Believe me, in the modern world the ability to produce power is a great asset, not a liability.

    I think that says it all really.

    Unionist scaremongering.

    druidh
    Member

    The Citibank report was produced by Peter Atherton. His previous work includes a warning that investment in UK nuclear power is “dire” and that the UK Government needs to step in with more subsidies.

    Some might think the man has an axe to grind…..

    duckman
    Member

    This will go the usual way up here. They have been clearing some of the woods in Glen Clova the last couple of years. Scottish labour, supervised by French Foremen, cut down with French made equipment,loaded onto French lorries. When will we ever learn? Salmond needs a slap with a wet fish, a big one.

    zokes
    Member

    Salmond needs a slap with a wet fish, a big one.

    A salmon would probably do the trick, and would be quite apt…

    Scottish labour, supervised by French Foremen, cut down with French made equipment,loaded onto French lorries.

    When will we ever learn?

    quite.

    when will you learn that nationalism belongs in the 19C ?

    It does? really -? why? Self determination for a people is no longer a reasonable aim?

    To go back to the OP – its just a classic piece of bashing – two targets the renewables and independence. No new info just a classsic piece of small minded bashing of things he cannot make a profit from

    It does? really -? why?

    because civilisation moved on tj

    Self determination for a people is no longer a reasonable aim?

    well why wasn’t scotland clamouring for it at the treaty of versailles when self determination was on the agenda for the rest of europe ?

    zokes
    Member

    It does? really -? why?

    Because myopia is pretty counter-productive in just about every case.

    So you don’t believe in the right to self determination of a people?

    zokes
    Member

    well why wasn’t scotland clamouring for it at the treaty of versailles when self determination was on the agenda for the rest of europe ?

    It’s probably all England’s fault 🙄

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    mrmo – Member
    I guess the issue is why not buy from france instead?…

    I’m sure that would be already happening if it was priced right.

    Maybe the best thing Scotland could do is to cut the lines south and offer the cheap power to industry here. That might actually create some jobs in Scotland.

    zokes
    Member

    So you don’t believe in the right to self determination of a people?

    I do, but I’m not quite sure what that has to do with this:

    Scottish labour, supervised by French Foremen, cut down with French made equipment,loaded onto French lorries. When will we ever learn?

    ^^ this

    that’s not about self determination. that’s just nationanlalism.

    imagine how tj would react to an englishman saying that about english labour 😆

    zokes
    Member

    imagine how tj would react to an englishman saying that about english labour

    I’m sure we’d be racist, bigoted, and a fine example of why Scotland is ‘better’…

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Aaaaah – the dependable old argument about self-determination for blue people. We’ve not had that for a few days

    This is all you need to read:

    In March 2008 Alex Salmond addressed an audience at Harvard University. Some of you may remember it. In the speech the First Minister referred to the “arc of prosperity” or Ireland, Iceland, and Norway; he referred to “the remarkable success of indigenous companies that have become global, Nokia in Finland, Ericsson in Sweden, Maersk shipping in Denmark or for that matter the Royal Bank of Scotland.” (not the last of his praise for the Royal Bank); he said “the lesson we draw from our neighbours in Ireland – the Celtic Tiger economy – where annual growth has averaged more than 6 per cent over the past two decades, is that with the right strategy, there are no limits to success in the modern global economy.”; and a hymn of praise to Scotland’s financial sector “of course we Scots are lucky enough to have the one of the best brands in the world – a global recognition and affection for our culture that money cannot buy. Take financial services. With RBS and HBOS – two of the world’s biggest banks – Scotland has global leaders today, tomorrow and for the long-term. And a growing number of American firms – not least JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley and State Street – are discovering that the Scottish financial sector can do anything you can do in London and can do it better and rather importantly in the current environment can do it at lower cost.”

    If Alex had had his way a few years back, Scotland would presently be making Greece look like Monaco. Hmmmmmm – I wonder if, just maybe, they might be looking in a southerly direction for a bail out. I wonder…….

    Nice one zokes – why not make up things you think I would say? After all its easier to attack a person than to actually engage in debate. 🙄

    To go back to the OP – its a clear attempt to defend vested interests.

    5thElefant
    Member

    So you don’t believe in the right to self determination of a people?

    I thought you said anyone wanting to leave the union was xenophobic?

    another made up attack. nice.

    hilldodger
    Member

    TandemJeremy – Member
    So you don’t believe in the right to self determination of a people?

    Would you care to define “a people”, and who “they” have a right to be self determinate from ?

    You don’t self determinate from anyone 🙄 its not in reference to someone else its about self determination.

    “a people?” they define themselves.

    zokes
    Member

    another made up attack

    Such emotive words you use. Next we’ll be having accusations of bullying, shortly followed by a flounce…

    After all its easier to attack a person than to actually engage in debate.

    The key word is debate. Unless the person already agrees with you, or changes their opinion to be in line with your own TJ, you never partake in debate either. Rather, you pretend you were joking and wander off back under your bridge.

    5thElefant
    Member

    If the UK leaves the EU we will be shunned by the other countries. We are not seen in a good light anyway with continual moaning, our government sitting with the racists on the far right of the parliament, constant grandstanding and so on, continual criticisms and the frank xenophobia from the tory “eurosceptics” There is no chance of any half way house. and it would be disastrous to leave

    Self determination for a people is no longer a reasonable aim?

    Apparently not. It’s xenophobic.

    zokes – why do you make up things that you claim I would say?

    Rather, you pretend you were joking and wander off back under your bridge.

    another made up lie.

    5th – one thing there does not equal the other. However like zokes you prefer made up lies , slurs and personal attacks as you know you have no logical case to make.

    In the case of the tories on the EU much of it is driven by xenophobia. you see this is where you fail to understand. a part of the SNP line is that they want closer ties with the EU -hardly fits in with xenophobia does it?

    Nationalism can be driven by xenophobia but does not have to be – as it is not in the case of the vast majority of the SNP supporters

    5thElefant
    Member

    Nope, I just enjoy your double standards.

    hilldodger
    Member

    TandemJeremy – Member
    “a people?” they define themselves.

    So there’s this ‘self defining group of people’ who want ‘self determination’ that’s not in ‘reference to someone else’

    So how will the know when they’ve reached it ?
    When the fat man tells them or when they suddenly achieve spontaneous collective enlightenment 😆

    5thElefant – Member

    Nope, I just enjoy your double standards.

    No double standards from me. You distort what I say to attempt to slur me in the absence of any viable argument.

    Hilldodger I suggest you look up the words. “self determination” is not in reference to anyone else.

    hilldodger
    Member

    zokes – Member
    TJ, you never partake in debate either.

    Or answer specific questions except with a rolly eyed emoticon, accusations of stupidity/xenophobia/racism/thatcherism, or some version of TED.

    zokes
    Member

    another made up lie.

    Really, I thought the entire phrase the ”Edinburgh defence” was coined because of this

    It really does amuse me that you have such difficulty making any rational debate that instead you make personal attacks on me.

    Shows the poverty of your ideas

    hilldodger
    Member

    TandemJeremy – Member

    Hilldodger I suggest you look up the words. “self determination” is not in reference to anyone else.

    I suggest you try to answer questions if you want to maintain your pretence at engaging in debate.
    I was asking you what you meant by the terms, not what the dictionary means……

    Zokes – thats is right that “Edinburgh defense” as you call it is based on lies about me. I have never done it – started a debate in seriousness and then pretended I was in jest. I have been accused of doing so but its something I have never done.

    However like many “big lies” repeat it enough and people start to believe it.

    Its an accusation that I have lied about my motivations – and that is not something I have ever done.

    “Self determination” that a person or group of people having the ability to decide for themselves.

    It does not refer to anyone else.

    After all its easier to attack a person

    something you’re more than prepared yourself re ‘little englanders’etc no ?

    than to actually engage in debate

    but tj i have engaged in debate here but you haven’t answered – i’ll repeat.

    if the need for self determination is so great and so obvious, then why wasn’t scotland clamouring for it at the treaty of versailles when self determination was on the agenda for the rest of europe ?

    hilldodger
    Member

    TandemJeremy – Member
    “Self determination” that a person or group of people having the ability to decide for themselves.

    A group, how big and who governs if you’re “in the group”
    Decide what, everything that affects their lives

    Why won’t you actually be specific for once and say what you actually think rather than talking in generalisations….

    if the need for self determination is so great and so obvious, then why wasn’t scotland clamouring for it at the treaty of versailles when self determination was on the agenda for the rest of europe ?

    The treaty of versaille was an armistice agreement. Nothing to do with this at all.

    5thElefant
    Member

    No double standards from me. You distort what I say to attempt to slur me in the absence of any viable argument.

    Slur? It’s an observation. I’m surprised you can’t see the irony in your enthusiastic and opposite viewpoints of identical scenarios.

    I don’t have an argument though. I’m indifferent to scottish independence or british independence. The world will continue, stuff will sort itself out. The sky will not fall.

    So you don’t believe in the right to self determination of a people?

    Interesting question that TJ – I take it you’d be perfectly happy if the people of the Shetlands cut ties with Scotland? I mean, historically they were Danish, then spent time as a Crown dependency in their own right (like the Channel Islands) in fact there are those who argue that techinically they still are a Crown dependency…

    So, do the people of the Shetlands have the right to self determination? ’cause if they do, thats your much vaunted Scottish oil wealth that’s going to pay for your independent super-nation f**ked isn’t it 😆

    5th

    I’m surprised you can’t see the irony in your enthusiastic and opposite viewpoints of identical scenarios.

    The two scenarios are not identical, the position I adopt is the same in each case. The analysis I made of the motivations are very different.

    The eurosceptic right of the tory party are driven by xeonophobia – they want to leave the EU. If there is a majority in england to do so they are welcome to do so. I think it would be harmful to do so. Howeer if thats what the people want to do thenthey havethe right to do so

    The nationalism of the SNP is driven by a desire for self determination and is outward looking. It is not xenophobic in nature. a part of the reason why they want independence is to be able to make closer ties with the EU.

    So, basically, if they agree with you, they’re progressive, if they disagree with you, they’re xenophobic… thats what you’re saying, right?

    How about that Shetland oil wealth TJ? any opinions on their right to self determination yet?

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