OK STW massive, I’m hoping the good and the great on here will know facts and not speculation as this is pretty important we get right.

Long story short:
Very elderly relative died leaving a property with land in England.
Property and land is to be sold for the beneficiaries (my elderly dad is one).
All has been sold STC and the buyers want to complete very soon (They have set a date not too far in the future).
There are sheep on the land.
They are not our sheep and at present no-one knows who’s sheep they are.
Sale cannot go through with sheep on the land.
None of the beneficiaries or family live locally to do any proper digging about, metaphorically that is!

Questions:
Have I understood correctly that section 7 of the Animals Act 1971 allows us to remove (detain) the sheep as long as we inform the local police and (if known) the owner within 48 hours of detaining?

Is there any reason we can’t remove the sheep?

There are solicitors involved but they are blooming useless and know nothing about the Act, we had to tell them!

We also think we know who does own the sheep (local gossip) and will contact them tomorrow. I’m asking the questions here in case they say they aren’t their sheep or they are but won’t remove them.

Actual knowledge of the act is much appreciated and offers of, or ideas about sheep removal are not required, for obvious legal reasons! Although right now I could really do with a laugh!

Did the sheep just wander onto the land, broken fence or whatever? Or are they supposed to be there, deceased relative rented out the land to the shepherd maybe?
Probably best to establish that first before detaining them.
Would the solicitors handling the sale even be aware of any ad hoc field renting? Maybe not, my parents for example used to rent theirs for a nominal sum to a local to keep some shetlands and keep the grass down, nothing formal ever agreed

If their owner know they’re there, they should be dropping round to check on them every few days, or at least once a week. Put a printed laminated note on every road gate. They should have ear tags, so if you can get a number (catch one or use binoculars) you can probably enquire with DEFRA. If they came in from a neighbouring field, and there are many of them, you might be able to spot a well-trodden hole in a fence/hedge adorned with wool.

The field was rented to alocal farmer for his sheep. They were removed after the death of the relative as the permission to keep them there ended with their death. Everyone knew about it.
A lock was put on the gate once the sheep were removed.
Lock was broken and sheep put in the field without permission.
I think they still fall under the definition of stray as they are in a private place where they’re not allowed, even if they were placed there.

I’m hoping the good and the great on here will know facts and not speculation

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

@bikesandboots DEFRA prointed us to Trading Standards Animal Welfare who told us about section 7. They also said that ear tags can be well out of date due to sale, but if we found what they said they could pass the info on to the tagging information people.

It sounds like you do in fact know who owns these sheep. You should speak to them

@tabletop2, yep pretty sure we do, and they are being contacted tomorrow. No idea why the solicitor hasn’t already done so (but that’s awhile other story).

There are concerns the owner is trying to block the sale of the property as he has a friend who wants it, but not for what it’s being sold at. Which is why I want to know if I’ve understood section 7 correctly, and the sheep can be detained asap as long as we let relevant people know.

@ads678 I know, but I’m an optimist!

Open the gate and let them out you’ll find out who’s sheep they are soon enough.

@TheBrick alas that is not an option as it is illegal to do so.

Bookmarked. Sorry I cant help OP but I need resolution.

Is there “aggravated ovine trespass”?

JoB may know…

I’m guessing there no CCTV on the gate and those pesky walkers are always leaving gates open.

Any local Facebook pages? Quick post on there usually results in the farmer being found when they’re any problems around my way. It phone a local farmer or two, they’re likely to know whose using the field.

If they got in illegally then it would be terrible if they got out illegally too, in fact it was probably the same person that broke the lock who also damaged the section of fence that they escaped through…

@scuttler you and me both! But as this is a 30 odd year story in the making I fear none will be forthcoming in the required timeframe.

But hey, I’ll update when I do know what happens.

Hi OP what you possibly want is a law firm that deals with things like agriculture/landed estates/old money amongst their expertise as I could imagine that’s the kind of client base where this stuff would arises more commonly.

There would be firms in places like Salisbury that have that kind of expertise or you might find some sole practitioner farming lawyer local to you.

@garage-dweller yep, we have the details of one. But as we only found out this needed sorting asap this evening, I thought I’d call on the collective to see if they have experience of this kind of thing.

Mainly to give me something to do when I can do nothing else!

Yes it would be a terrible shame if the sheep you have no responsibility for were to ‘escape’ your property and a fence got magically built at the same time.

they should be dropping round to check on them every few days, or at least once a week. Put a printed laminated note on every road gate sheep.

To be sure.

Won’t reach the OP any new tricks but for the readers of this thread youay find this interesting – https://www.torfaen.gov.uk/cy/Related-Documents/Animal-and-Pest-Control/Animals-Stray/Your-rights-as-a-landowner.pdf

Count them but don’t round them up. Rounding them down will make the numbers more acceptable

The flock has taken over your land? That’s a dictatorsheep

Hmmm…. A long time ago but as a local authority with some one keeping goats and sheep on a bit if our land without permission we had to go through the process of serving notice to remove them after the person who has them there was refusing to do so, and then trying to find a suitable contractor who was willing and able to remove them. As you can imagine it as a lengthy process.

As a member of the public I’m sure, as above, gates or fences get damaged all the time in the countryside allowing pesky sheep to escape the field. Best make it very secure once they have!

As a member of the public I’m sure, as above, gates or fences get damaged all the time in the countryside allowing pesky sheep to escape the field

Yeah good idea. I wouldn’t worry about any motorcyclists or anything coming round a corner into a load of loose sheep 👍

Fields don’t always lead only on to a road…

Sheep, even ponies and cattle are often on roads in the countryside too…

Anyway, seems he knows who he needs to speak to.

Your land, your sheep, you kebabs?

If you have to detain the flock, you’ll need to feed and water it. Concentrates (the very best) and sparkling Evian as you can reclaim these costs from the owner.

Anyone know of a good sheep masseur and spa place to house them in?

How far from mid-Wales? There is a farmer around my way* with low moral standards and a lorry. Quiet location, no neighbours and lorry access? 😉😂

* Not welshfarmer

Don’t take advice from anyone who hasn’t passes the bah exam.

I need to know how this one plays out.

They will have a unigue eartag number in their ear. If they all have the same number they will all have come from the same place so should be pretty easy to inform the owner. If not then get the number(s) and some pictures and place an advert in the local paper with the pictures and say the owner has 1 month to collect or else they will be sold in the local auction house with proceeds to go to charity (after appropriate rental money has been claimed by yourself). That is what happens here when the mountains are gathered and unclaimed sheep are left over at the end (after the various commoners ahve identified and removed their own sheep).

kayak23
Full Member
they should be dropping round to check on them every few days, or at least once a week. Put a printed lambinated note on every road gate sheep

I think ewe should employ a special lawyer as some of the thinking on here is quite woolly.

Sorry, no direct advice, but it might be worth ringing the local nfu branch and asking for the group secretary. They tend to know the laws around these things – whether they’ll talk to you about it is another matter. But it might be worth a try because it’s free. Lawyers will just fleece you.

Lawyers will just fleece you.

Golden 👍

I’m getting the impression from what’s been said on the thread so far it’s unlikely that the movement has been reported but it should have been:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/sheep-and-goat-keepers-how-to-report-animal-movements

I’m guessing the land has its own CPH?

Don’t take advice from anyone who hasn’t passes the bah exam.

🤣🤣

I knew there’d be done golden (fleece) humour here. Thanks for making me smile.

So, @timber the area where the sheep are is a quiet village, one road in, one out. There are houses nearby and everyone knows everyone (which is why we are confident who the owner is, although they have allegedly denied ownership -this is being checked today hopefully via phonecall). We need to make sure that any movement of the sheep is done properly as it will be witnessed I’m sure.

The land opens onto this main village road. It would be silly and dangerous (as well as illegal) to even think about letting them loose. Plus cruelty to animals never plays well in court!

Someone is feeding the sheep “out of the goodness of their heart” but has denied being the owner or knowing who that is.

@nuke, we are unable to find out the CPH number on the land due to GDPR as the CPH number is linked to the flock owner. They won’t even search for us to see if there is one.

@welshfarmer that’s pretty much what we’re hoping to do under Sec 7. Good to know, thanks.

@longdog, that’s the route the estate solicitors want to go down, quoting 2-25k depending how far it goes in court!

On it trundles, hope for a positive phone call today!

Also @benpinnick, thanks, I found exactly that document online the other day which is what has made us think this could be done fairly easily.