I can stick around the 7.30 pace for runs up to about 15 miles but after that my leg strength just dies, I really don’t see how I’m going to get any faster and keep running for longer distances atm. I do fartleks and speed work, but I can’t be doing that on huge runs, I’ll die!! I really really want to do a marathon next year, did 20 miles today but was doing 9.30 min/mile at the end

Bleurgh. I’m going to eat cake. 🙁

You say you do fartleks; what pace and for how long?

Try 6-8 reps of 800m at sub 6 min/miles once a week. I’ve found this to work the best for me, oh and plenty of slow stuff.

Do your speed work on long runs as well; you’ll die but a mile or so at 9’ish min/miles and you’ll be alright. It’s probably good to change whereabouts in the long run that you choose to throw in your speed work.

I know nothing by the way; so this could all be bollocks.

Oh yeah. Join a running club….definately the best way to see how fast you could be and a good opportunity to have your legs torn off.

hill reps and burpees?

perhaps join BMF

http://www.britmilfit.com/?src=adwords&gclid=CMHRps-U7q8CFcohfAod31wt0A

Kev

I can second Keva BMF for getting and staying fit, some parks have a running club.

Oh, just noticed that your already very quick with a 7.30 15 mile pace…..running club is definately what you need. Not advice from middle age IT monkeys.

slow down the long runs speed up the fast short ones.

emsz – It’s got to be about doing structured intervals, possibly at a track? Like Seanoc says, or possibly faster speeds but shorter distances.

Also on a long run finish the last half a mile at a pace faster than you want your marathon time to be… tell those legs to ‘shut up’.

You can do it. You just have to believe you can.

I’m told intervals are the answer, as you’re already pretty fit I’d join a club or look online for schedules.

FWIW I died on my 20m run but finished my marathon ok, albeit not as fast as I wanted, but I’d overtrained.

Emsz, try John L Parker’s approach which is similar to comments above. Alternate you runs between fast, shiort stuff at 85% working HR (karvonen) and long slow stuff at 70%. The endurance will come more easily than the ability to keep going at 85% since his will get harder and harder as you get fitter.

As others have said, run your long runs slower and your shorter runs faster. Your body wil do the rest. Stay out of zone 3!!!!!

85% working HR (karvonen) and long slow stuff at 70%

What do you mean by ‘working heart rate’? Max HR?

So more sprint training? even for long distance as well?

how does that work?

So long runs at what speed? 8.5 mins/mile, that sort of speed? Endurance isn’t the problem, it’s keeping the pace up, anyone can run slowly LOL

just do more running with people faster than you; in a running club, or at races.

You’ll never get faster by not running fast.

it’s keeping the pace up

So, more intervals then.

Also second the thing of joining a running club and going out with the speedsters.

It’s all in the training and with all training, you build it up bit by bit. Essentially you need to runat the pace you want to achieve over a short distance and keep increasing the distance until you’re where you want to be.

Simple? Well yes it is , but there is a lot of hard work and pain involved unfortunately!

No beer, sorry I have been out. WHR uses your rating HR in the calculation rather than just a simple % of max. It’s other name is often the karvonen method. I find it a better method.

Emsz, you can use HR zones or pacing. Well used RoT for long run training is in the region of 1m per mile slower than target race. I used this but built in race pace for the last few miles in training in addition to basic HR benchmarks

We (me and her) ran approx 1 mile on sat night sun morning after the bus dropped us off miles from home, I’d had circa “several pints” of Stella! Running 15 miles would have been interesting from that point onwards! How’d you get past 3 would be my question!!!!

I may have found something that can help, meet Princess….

Disclaimer: Other safer methods of learning to run fast may be available elswhere.

Rock ape, that’s an interesting version. Not one that I or my mates have followed mainly due to the fact that we never feel the need to run race pace fully in training. Did you build right up to full distance at race pace?

I do fartleks and speed work, but I can’t be doing that on huge runs

No, you do your intervals in short sessions, and your long sessions are still steady. Less is more.

So more sprint training? even for long distance as well?

how does that work?

Think of it like this. If you can do a mile in say 6m then 7.30 for 15 miles is I dunno.. 60% of top speed. If you train for speed and can do a milein 5m then 7.30 might end up being say 50% of top speed, and you would therefore be able to do it for longer.

Your short sessions should be short really really really gut-pukingly hard, then stop. Don’t be tempted to be like Yeti and do too much 🙂 It’s anathema to the person who loves long rambling runs for fun, but that’s training for you. Treat it like a project.

My best half marathon was off ‘hard runs hard, easy runs easy’. I don’t respond to a structured plan but do think variety is key. Don’t think you should worry about pace on your longer runs (90′ plus?). Very few of these should be time trials. You’ve done 20 already, that last 6 is where a lot of people get into bother. But if you get 5 or 6, 18-20m+ runs in, the marathon’s in the bag.

I’me a plodder rather than having decent top speed, but hill reps are a lot of my diet (for fell racing). Another session that works for me is a club run where I chat with different people and might end up dropping back and then have to work really hard to get back to my group. Sort of a chatty fartlek.

Variety. Next event is 33 miles, last week I was doing track 200s…

To add balance… don’t fall into the trap of being like Molly and do too little, or nothing at all.

If you enjoy it, do it.

Its not necessary to slow down your long runs if you are comfortable at 7:30 miling. Good runners dont run “slow” as such. You need to run within certain thresholds.
If you are doing 15’s regularly at this pace then its probably realistic that you could set interval targets at around 5:30 to 5:45 pace for your mile reps.
Try running 4 x 1 mile with a 2 minute jog between then then add another or even 2 after a few weeks.
Run 6 – 8 x 800m at around 5:15 to 5:30 paces with 90 seconds recovery.
These are only estimates you need to join a club as others have said and determine more acurately what your target interval pace should be and you should also introduce intervals at faster than your target 10km pace as well as doing threshold based training.
You should run at several speeds some faster and some slower than your goal race pace but you do need to introduce some faster paced running to improve your overall speed.

What are you aiming for?

Renato Canova trains lots of the Kenyan marathon big boys. He says that the best way to approach a race is to build it up from the ground.

You shouldn’t be going out at a pace and hoping to hang on – the most important runs during the week are those which simulate your race, and the point of all the other training you do is to get you fit enough to run the simulations.

If you want to run a marathon at 7:10min/ mile, run weekly or fortnightly long runs including big chunks at that pace. All the other runs should be faster for shorter periods or recovering slower.

I’m running Leeds Half next weekend. On Sat I did 3miles@7:30m/m, 4miles@6:10m/m (target race pace), 1mile@7:30, 2miles@5:50, 2mile@7:30. I’m not as fit as I wanted to be after 3 weeks of being ill so it stung a bit at the end, but it was fun.

More here: http://tinyurl.com/4x6obmj

don’t fall into the trap of being like Molly and do too little, or nothing at all.

Hey, we’re all different.

My goal now is to kick Yeti’s arse, due to all the lip he gives me on here.

Entered the Ben Nevis tri yet Yeti?

When’s the Ben Nevis tri? What distance?

http://www.nofussevents.co.uk/event/The-Big-Ben-Nevis-Triathlon/2771/

It needs to be done DD.

I’m running Leeds Half next weekend. On Sat I did 3miles@7:30m/m, 4miles@6:10m/m (target race pace), 1mile@7:30, 2miles@5:50, 2mile@7:30. I’m not as fit as I wanted to be after 3 weeks of being ill so it stung a bit at the end, but it was fun.

Thats an interesting session. I agree with your point that you have to mimick the pace that you want to perform at. Training has to be specific. If you expect to run 5 miles in 25 minutes you wont achieve it if your fastest training is at 5:30 pace.

Yeah, just checked…it’s the swim. The swim. The swim. I swim so badly mrs deadly has given up trying to teach me. It’s because she pulls a muscle laughing so much.

Would you girls be doing the full or half? I’d seriously consider it if I knew others going up for it. 🙂

Also Canova posted a lot on the US site “letsrun” I recall he went into great detail over a long period of time sharing training information.

If you expect to run 5 miles in 25 minutes you wont achieve it if your fastest training is at 5:30 pace.

I’d do well to run one in five. In fact, bollocks, I wouldn’t do it st all. Yeti reckons he can do it.

Please note that the generous cut off time of 45 mins to complete first lap will be strictly
adhered to. Anyone outwith this time will be moved on to the bike section.

Does that mean I can just paddle around or play in the rock-pools for 45 mins then get on my bike?
Sounds like my sort of triathlon then.

Would you girls be doing the full or half?

I’m definitely going and definitely doing the full. I think iDave might be too.

DD you need to work on your swimming. It can be done. Commit!

Sounds like my sort of triathlon then.

🙂

I saw that and wondered too. I guess they’re saying they’ll allow you to complete the event to the best of your abilities but you won’t get a placing?

In the T&C’s they said something about anybody wearing those shoes of yours not being allowed to cross the border Ian. 😀

Commit!

OK, I’ll do it.

I’m not getting into any of you lot’s competitive shit though. 😐

surfer – Member
Also Canova posted a lot on the US site “letsrun” I recall he went into great detail over a long period of time sharing training information.

I think the doc in my link was written by someone on letsrun as a summary of his posts. Could be wrong though.

If they got rid of swimming I might be interested. But a mile of extended drowning, mixed with some fish shit and being kicked in the head doesn’t do it for me.
They should just acknowledge that swimming is fundamentally rubbish and change it to canoeing or pedalos or something.

If they got rid of swimming I might be interested.

Oh come on!

I’m gonna give it a lash and I swear I’m absolutely shit at swimming. I will however be awesome at the biking and running bits.

I’m definitely going and definitely doing the full.

Commit!

Sounds like you’ve entered then Molly? I was thinking more about a half IM in the New Forest tbh.

BTW Do you really think I give you a lot of shit?