So Englanders whats tje view on Cokanasiga? Looks good ball in hand and males the liles of George North look small but turns like a supertanker being chased by Iranian speedboats. I wouldnt pick him for Wales as we’d struggle to hide his weaknesses but England may be able to hide him…you need to start Ford too dont you? 10.Ford 12 Faz and 13 Tuilagi, May and Nowell/Watson with Daly at 15?

Discussion on Barrits shoulder charge and the sanctions for high tackle / shoulder charge. The suggestion is that the player sent off should be able to be replaced by another after 10 mins ie in this situation Barrit would have been off but the All Blacks could go back to 15 players using a different lock after 10 mins

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/27371497/is-there-better-way-deal-scott-barrett-shoulder-charge

I am not sure what to think about this. No doubt a red card is a huge penalty for the whole team. Its very hard for a team down a player to make a fair game of it. We have seen this many times From The welsh red card a few years ago to this game to Scotlands stuffing of Aus after they had a man red cared to the lions series only leveled after a red card.

On the other hand Barrit and those other incidents were all very dangerous. Player have been put out of the game and in the last couple of years the procedures the Refs follow to give a red card have been refined to remove variables.

One thing I would like is on a yellow to use a system like they do in ice hockey. Once say 10 pts have been scored the yellow card is over even if its only 3 mins.

On the red I do quite like the suggestion of the red carded player being able to be replaced by someone different after 10 mins.

I want the game to be a spectacle and cards often spoil the spectacle making an even contest into an uneven one

Note this is not about whether Barritt should have been red carded just about the severity of the sanction

Red card. I think your down a man. Keeps everyone thinking about their responsibilities to the team. The opportunity to come back to 15 gives the you the chance to break the laws especially out wide.

There would be a lot more deliberate knock ons in the defensive line. Save a definite try with deliberate foul play be replaced in 10mins. Would also really favour the big nations with class benches.

On the red I do quite like the suggestion of the red carded player being able to be replaced by someone different after 10 mins

Red cards are needed to protect players, if you dont like them tackle correctly. Leave as is.

One thing I would like is on a yellow to use a system like they do in ice hockey. Once say 10 pts have been scored the yellow card is over even if its only 3 mins.

Why, yellows are to encourage open play and stop cheating these laws would see the punishment capped and mean the offenders can gamble on conceding 7 and only lose 10 at worst. I dont think these laws need changing…

I would like to see something done with scrums, seems like any team with a weaker scrum just gets pinged and yellowed for being weaker. The stronger team should get the benefit by pushing the others back. It might help reduce the gym monkey massive props and make a faster looser game, gets boring watching a stronger team get a pen everytime they get a nudge on, fair enough if its dropped but just being pushed back is not an automatic pen.

On the red I do quite like the suggestion of the red carded player being able to be replaced by someone different after 10 mins.

I’m not sure, I can see your point, but the way it is at present probably has more effect on long term behaviour. Maybe.

Anyway

On Scrums I would make a lot of the technical offenses free kick not a penalty. Maybe go 10 m forward for the free kick. Feet going from under you,. slipped bind etc. Not for deliberate offense but for the inadvertent ones. Repeat offenses still get a yellow card?

I absolutely loathe the “hold the ball in the scrum to milk a penalty” Ruins the game as a spectacle and also I loathe the “collapse the scrum get a reset to waste time”

Over the summer I have watched a lot of older games – scrums never used to be such a penalty fest.

Red card. I think your down a man. Keeps everyone thinking about their responsibilities to the team.

Agreed. As above,mid you don’t like red cards, don’t do anything that would get you one, like a deliberate shoulder to the head for example…

Also, if you don’t like conceding points because you weren’t paying attention to the game, pay attention to the game.

I would think if you go forward say 5m and it collapses its reset 5m forward with the dominant team getting put in. Preventing collapse when going backwards is almost impossible. Collapses at start fair enough ping it but lets try to get the ball in play. The refs need to take responsibility for the mess too. Pinging teams all the team promotes pen milking.

On the red I do quite like the suggestion of the red carded player being able to be replaced by someone different after 10 mins.

I agree.

Rugby is generally unbalanced when one team permanently goes to 14 – with a few notable exceptions – and the match can be ruined.

The American sports get it right. If players get ejected the penalty is served and the offending player is subsequently replaced.

I agree.

Rugby is generally unbalanced when one team permanently goes to 14 – with a few notable exceptions – and the match can be ruined.

The American sports get it right. If players get ejected the penalty is served and the offending player is subsequently replaced.

I dont get it, surely the idea is to prevent foul player especially dangerous play. If the team loses then good you deserved to. With on field replays and video refs I think the balance is right. You could send on Moriarty to take out Dan Carter in the first 5mins of the world cup final and then replace him with another player?

20 mins of 14 players then back to 15?

20 mins of 14 players then back to 15?

But why change it? Yes it spoils the game as a contest, but so what thats the point.

I am not wedded to the idea – just thought it was interesting.

I dont get it, surely the idea is to prevent foul player especially dangerous play. If the team loses then good you deserved to. With on field replays and video refs I think the balance is right. You could send on Moriarty to take out Dan Carter in the first 5mins of the world cup final and then replace him with another player?

Yeah, I know what you mean but you also get situations like Elliott Daly getting sent off against Argentina for takng the player out in the air. Those sendings off seem entirely dependent on whether the player lands on his head or not – which is a complete lottery. Or that Cipriani red card for Gloucester which was total nonsense.

I reckon delberate targeting of key players would have to be dealt with by hefty bans after the event.

Could we go to three levels of sanction? So a deliberate piece of foul play like Hoopers or Baritts shoulder charge to the head gets a red but an accidental piece of dangerous play like Daly gets a lower level of sanction somewhere between the current red or yellow? Or does that just add another layer of subjectivity and make reffing less consistent?

Field hockey has 3 types of card – warning, temp send off, permanent send off. Could rugby go to Yellow – player returns after 10 mins, Orange – player can be replaced after 10 mins. red – rest of the game with 14 players?

The sanctions on tackle in the air has certainly improved things – when was the last time you saw a player attempting to catch a ball being cartwheeled thru the air?

So Englanders whats tje view on Cokanasiga?

England’s obsession with size continues.

Whatever happened to small guys who could play on the wing?

Yeah, I know what you mean but you also get situations like Elliott Daly getting sent off against Argentina for takng the player out in the air.

Well dont, he tackled the man in the air, just dont do it, clear red, clearly dangerous just dont do it.

he tackled the man in the air, just dont do it, clear red, clearly dangerous just dont do it.

I agree but if the guy had landed on his feet it would have been a different scenario so it’s a bit of a lottery isn’t it?

I think 10 minutes with 14 then back to 15 with a different player is a fairer outcome.

Namaste – we have Darcy Graham – 5’9 and under 12 stone. Very young and inexperienced and possibly our best winger. Yesterday he shackled Roka pretty well ( dunno if he missed him for the first try as I didn’t see it)
Edit – Raka is not as big as I thought – 4 inches taller and 2 stone heavier than Graham

AA – did you say that when The welsh forward ( AWJ?) got a red in the WC ( yes I know – the guidance changed and now that would only be a yellow)

I agree but if the guy had landed on his feet it would have been a different scenario so it’s a bit of a lottery isn’t it?

No, because he still would have tackled the man in the air. The act is the offense, not the outcome.

If you want to keep 15 on the pitch, don’t do anything that gets you a red card. It’s pretty simple.

Field hockey has 3 types of card

The three types are Green – go away for two minutes, Yellow – go away for a minimum of 5 minutes and come back when the umpire says so (normally between 5 – 10 minutes). Red – Go away and don’t come back. It works, in my county last year there were 11 red cards. But lot’s of yellows. (And two yellows = red). A red card is an automatic ban from the sport for 16 days, plus any extra applied for dangerous play.

CFH – if the guy had landed on feet it would only have been a pen, on his back a yellow on his head a red.

sadmadallen – thatks for the clarification. Its a while since I played!

I agree but if the guy had landed on his feet it would have been a different scenario so it’s a bit of a lottery isn’t it?

I think 10 minutes with 14 then back to 15 with a different player is a fairer outcome.

I agree with the first point but think the answer is to treat them all the same ie red.

AA – did you say that when The welsh forward ( AWJ?) got a red in the WC

It was Sam Warburton and yes decision was correct, the frustration came from the fact that others hadnt followed the guidance in the same world cup. I was gutted, it was accidental, it ruined the game but you know what Sam never did it again.

Krypton THM getting a ban didn’t lead to a situation vacant, don’t be that guys spiritual successor. Nothing wrong with a quick penalty, the physios weren’t dealing with a head injury and the carded player had been dealt with. The England support team were just slowing play down to allow England to reorganise, any comment on sportsmanship there? As to your other point, North is a 2 times Lion, why wouldn’t he score against a full strength England?

I’m not.  I’m overseas and 5h behind you so yesterday was reliant on what I could see from my FB feed, hence asking for clarity on the quick tap situation.  I’ve read it here and on the media now so fair do’s.   On the North comments I’m just reacting to the fact that he’s being painted as a genius for that play in some places whereas in reality it was a 3 player over lap and a clear run in with no defence in front of him – notwithstanding his skills elsewhere and in this play to catch and finish – therefore not the hardest or most amazing score a player of his calibre has ever scored.

Credit to Wales though.  Reads as though our backs were kept out of the game and were given no opportunity to try to unlock that good Welsh defence.

Reads as though our backs were kept out of the game and were given no opportunity to try to unlock that good Welsh defence.

My take on that is the English backs actually looked decent until Farrell came on when they never got another decent ball. although they looked decent the welsh defence kept them out just and I also thought Enghland blew a few chances

Lol. That explains why it’s important to get several opinions, if you read sky sports player ratings this morning it essentially paints a picture that England were pretty average.  Put that into his threads perspective and that’s doing Wales an injustice.

we have Darcy Graham – 5’9 and under 12 stone. Very young and inexperienced and possibly our best winger

Yeah, I remember him from 7s too -very elusive.

I think Christian Wade couldda been another Shane Williams if he’d been given a fair shot.

England have raided the 7s pantry with McConnochie but only after he’d come back to XVs but they should have thought about bringing Dan Norton back. He was superior to McConnochie in most respects. France brought Vakatawa straight back from 7s with great results.

watched the NZ match….be afraid, be very afraid,they were scarily good.

They were good but not scarily so. Australia were useless – the surprise is that they managed to beat NZ last week. It feels like they can’t put a phase together without a handling error, forward pass or whatever.

And when talking about red cards it might be worth asking why Coles didn’t get one for picking a player up and literally throwing him away. No control, no regard to safety, a deliberately reckless act of foul play designed to intimidate. Of course, if the scrum half had landed on his head… 🙄

TJ , you’re right, was muddling my mind with high tackle laws!

CFH – its the same with the high tackle – accidental / no force – pen. Deliberate or reckless – yellow, with force – red

CFH – its the same with the high tackle – accidental / no force – pen. Deliberate or reckless – yellow, with force – red

How does that relate to the Cipriani red then? BY that reckoning it shouldda been a penalty only.

Look, if a bloke runs into another bloke and takes him out in the air then that’s a penalty – fair enough. But if the different sanctions are based on the outcome then that’s nonsense. That means three blokes could do EXACTLY the same thing and one could be penalised, one could get a yellow and one a red.

Ice hockey has the best system. Player gets ejected but he’s replaced by another after the penalty is served. If a team is short handed and the other team scores on the powerplay then you get your man back again.

So, Jones is whinging again, and Barnes is saying England are nothing but World Cup hopefuls, Ford was shit and Farrell one dimensional.

Business as usual then.

Cips – on a break in NY – has spoken to basically say after he returned home from the fitness camp he never heard from Jones again.  As if we didn’t know it, sounds like that bridge has burned.

Rumours are Curry and Underhill will be in Vs Ireland.

Finally a decent video of the North try, you can see clearly the ref blowing whistle to restart, no England players appear down injured.

Finally a decent video of the North try, you can see clearly the ref blowing whistle to restart, no England players appear down injured.

TBH I can’t see what all the fuss was about.

You need to be ready to play as soon as a penalty is awarded and once the ref signals to restart if you’re not ready it’s your own fault. I think I learned that in Primary 5.

TBH I can’t see what all the fuss was about.

England lost.

😂

Ah but only due to those sneaky welsh not playing the game properly! 😉

Talking of sneaky, Itoje’s attempts to hold down Josh Adams are very amateur, needs some lessons from AWJ.