What was the reason for the low score? Lack of ambition or just defences on top?

Defences were on top, Aus tried to run it but Wales defended very well, wales were always leading really so didnt need to push it. The ref was quick to ping for holding on which never helps and he didnt expect the tackler to release before going for the ball. Wales played the welsh way, give the opposition the ball and then defend…

Wales played the welsh way, give the opposition the ball and then defend.

I think you stole that idea from England.

Well, was happily surprised on Saturday but also, sadly, was correct in some of my predictions 🙁

Positives first, for the first 35 England looked ferocious. I don’t believe it was an under-strength/jet-lagged/whatever ABs (just look at the second half), they were simply outplayed and pressurised.

This was in no small part down to Youngs and Farrell. The forwards made the yards and big the hard work with Youngs being the best I’ve seem from him in a while. Really fast to/from rucks and lightning fast delivery to runners at pace. Gave Farrell time to make the right calls and passes. Great box kicking.

Ashton got a nice try for his first game back.

Underhill is the new Mad-Dog.

Moon impressed.

Pack were animals.

Negatives,

Youngs reverted to type after the first 35. Massively slow, let the pressure off the ABs, box kicks became a bit aimless, no runners at pace.

Subbing of Hartley really damaged the lineout (although due to injury). Not all Georges fault as the ABs piled on the pressure at lineout time but does make you wonder what might have been if the sub had been later…

Barely heard from Ashton and Teo after the first 10.

Daly, while doing not a lot wrong, is wasted at fullback.

Lineout calls not changed enough when it started to creak.

Second half ABs did school us, they looked dangerous as hell, when the pressure wasn’t put on them like the first half.

All in all, a good shift and an impressive game from the men in white.

Men in black showed their class as the didn’t crumble. Fantastic game if you happen to be a neutral!

Barely heard from Ashton and Teo after the first 10.

Teo messed up his man marking which, had he not done, may have prevented the McKensie try. He bought their play big time. I hope it is a mistake and not a permanent flaw as some of his carries and midfield defence were good.

Edit – I might be thinking of Slade actually, I am having a hard time trying to find decent footage.

edit 2  defo slade.. tackled Barrett when he should have been marking McKensie and I think Farrell was on to Barrett.Slade got in his way.

I think you stole that idea from England.

England like to keep the ball as they have lots of carriers for heavy traffic, Wales dont. Both teams are pretty dull though, much like Ireland.

Underhill is the new Mad-Dog.

You know, Moody was in the ground.  I did wonder whether Jones has used him in training to work with Simmonds or had him in the changing room pre-match when I saw Simmons performance.

Simmons hard earned that shirt though, I can’t wait to see Simmons V Hooper.

You know, Moody was in the ground.  I did wonder whether Jones has used him in training to work with Simmonds or had him in the changing room pre-match when I saw Simmons performance.

Simmons hard earned that shirt though, I can’t wait to see Simmons V Hooper.

Simmons was not on the pitch. do you mean Underhill?

Just seen that Gary Graham has decided that he’s Scottish again having declared for England previously despite being ‘Scottish through and through’…

Mindmap, has he played a proper test match for England? seems a weird one that, especially as the one thing we have is plenty back row forwards.

 for the first 35 England looked ferocious. I don’t believe it was an under-strength/jet-lagged/whatever ABs (just look at the second half), they were simply outplayed and pressurised.

If I had NZ$5 for every time Wales had started well against the All Blacks only for them to roll up their sleeves and show us who’s boss in the second half, I’d have enough for a decent meal out.

show us who’s boss

That wasn’t the case with England though.

So which of the home nations is happiest so far from the AIs

I’m pleased with Wales’ performance mentally, because so often they seem to lack the concentration and mental stamina to close a game out.  The fans start getting panicky at 70 mins with a slim lead, and I think the players do too.  Except that match was the first time I’ve seen them look like they could carry it through.  As an armchair fan I thought the Welsh defence was outstanding – but then I fully accept that some other team might find a different attacking option and run straight through.

show us who’s boss

That wasn’t the case with England though.

Agreed in terms of score, and that was the surprise.  Still lost tho 🙂

Youngs had a better game but even in that first 35 was hit or miss. Some great box kicks, some great delivery, great pass, but a lot of indifferent stuff. There’s nothing scary about seeing Youngs in the lineup. He’s neither a commander nor a live wire like he was when he first broke in to the team. Doesn’t matter though when the pack are immense and Farrell kicks his penalties (when not going for the corner).

Te’o has always been a liability in defense. There was a great video showing his and Slade’s instincts in defense and they aren’t singing from the same hymn sheet.

The backs are always going to be pretty irrelevant to an English side so it is hard to criticise the others involvement. The free flowing rugby in Argentina seems like an age away when going back in the old direction

Pack was devastating at the start. You feel that any team needs to put about 30 points on the AB’s when they have a surge on top and they would have easily done that against any other side. You can only applaud NZ for that. Underhill was an animal but will he receive an honourary 6.5 short like so many before him?

I’m pleased with Wales’ performance mentally, because so often they seem to lack the concentration and mental stamina to close a game out.

I think that aspect has been overrated compared to weak bench options compared to the teams we are trying to beat. Saturday we had a number of options off the bench who we arguably stronger than the starters.

@DanW – The Youngs of the first half, while not perfect, was a damn sight better than I’ve seem him for a while. And I’ve never been Te’o’s biggest fan, but when he plays well puts big dents in the gain line, just doesn’t seem to be happening at the moment, maybe due to not enough game time!

While glad Ashton got his score, I cant help but think Jones played him too soon. Having Nowell and May on from the start (1 <span style=”font-size: 12.8px;”>strength 1 </span><span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>speed) then bringing Ashton on when the legs started to get heavy would have been a better tactic IMO (although with hindsight he wouldn’t have got the ball much due to momentum shift to the ABs)</span>

The Youngs of the first half

Had front foot ball, second half he didnt, simple really

Had front foot ball, second half he didnt, simple really

Does this mean the forwards were on the front foot so he had ball time whilst the AB’s were reorganising their defensive line?

FYI my comment about England giving the ball away and then defended was meant to be ironic, I am sure they like to keep it, but against SA we had naff all possession, and I don’t think that was the game plan.
Are you saying wales game plan is to give up possession and defend? Or were you being ironic too? I think Wales always look **** dangerous ball in hand.

I think Wales always look **** dangerous ball in hand

You’ve been to Specsavers in Cardiff high st, obviously.

Some teams like to kick away everything in their own half and defend, some like to holfd the ball.  I thought ( from the bits I saw) england kicked far too much ball away.  However its the ABs who actually do this most.  ~Wales also play like that.  You can guarantee if you kick deep from a kickoff to wales they will kick it back.  safety first.

Scotland always look to attack first everytime they get the ball and only kick if the attack is not on.  High risk high reward.  sometimes it works and sometimes they get turned over near their own line.and look foolish.

Murray and Henshaw confirmed as out for the rest of the AI’s. Can’t help feeling that Ireland’s task has just got lot a harder on Saturday without Murray.

Are you saying wales game plan is to give up possession and defend?

Pretty much yes, they kick long avoiding touch and pressure the opposition. Often you see a fair bit of kick tennis in welsh games as the opposition kick it back trying to force an error, Wales usually just boot it back long again. In previous years Biggar would chase a high ball which he is excellent at, without him its just more long balls down the middle and trust the defence. Wales only try and play once they have possession inside the opponents 10m line.

Does this mean the forwards were on the front foot so he had ball time whilst the AB’s were reorganising their defensive line?

Pretty much, nines and tens always look better when the pack is getting over the gainline. This is why many people used to think Dawson was a better 9 than Howley as Dawson played in a better team with a brutal pack in front of him.

You’ve been to Specsavers in Cardiff high st, obviously.

Well they have stomped us plenty of times by playing scary attacking rugby.

I am just hoping for more scenes like this this season!
Edit

that was supposed to be the clip of laidlaw pished singing flower of scotland!  shonky forum !

try again

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/rugby-union/11551424/ref-wrong-to-overturn-underhill-try

What is Greenwood on? Explains why it was offside but thinks it was too marginal to be given???

What is Greenwood on?

the payroll of Skyspurts, say no more.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-46193609

yay, new helmet debate!!

TJ to the forum please!!!!!

Hogg confirmed as off south to Exeter. Big signing for them and hoped he’ll fit in well with their backs.

Kruis is broken and out of the AI’s. Will Jone s start with Itoje and Lawes? Or will he look to add some grunt via the likes of Atwood I wonder?

The press are really dining out on Lawes’ offside. Let it go, the ref said no try, end of. ThTs not why we lost the match; we lost because we didn’t take the point of offer and build the score and pressure.

Eddie Jones in the paper today saying England do a public service to the other home nations by providing them with players….then he went off to coach Brad Shields.

Just listened to Matt Dawson & Shane Horgan on the 5Live podcast. I really like Horgan as a pundit – talks a lot of sense.

Eddie Jones in the paper today saying England do a public service to the other home nations by providing them with players….

(Not ‘shopped!)

The news feed on my phone seems to be full of Trump antics, drunk people ranting on planes and Eddie Jones quotes… and I’m struggling to tell the difference between them to be honest

Eddie Jones is, and always has been, a tit.

us englanders are unpopular enough without that penarse adding to it!

Scotland team for SA

15. Stuart Hogg VICE CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors) – 63 caps

14. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 45 caps
13. Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps
12. Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 37 caps
11. Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 35 caps

10. Finn Russell (Racing 92) – 38 caps
9. Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Clermont Auvergne) – 64 caps

1. Gordon Reid (London Irish) – 32 caps
2. Stuart McInally VICE CAPTAIN (Edinburgh) – 20 caps
3. Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 24 caps
4. Ben Toolis (Edinburgh) – 13 caps
5. Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 45 caps
6. Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 1 cap
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 21 caps
8. Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 39 caps

Substitutes:
16. Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 36 caps
17. Allan Dell (Edinburgh) – 15 caps
18. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh) – 12 caps
19. Josh Strauss (Sales Sharks) – 15 caps
20. Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh) – 4 caps
21. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps
22. Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
23. Chris Harris (Newcastle Falcons) – 5 caps

Shrek  ( Reid) gets a start – no one saw that coming!  The toonbola turns again!

Will be an interesting game. SA are a big physical team which is often the Scottish undoing, but they are certainly beatable. Thedays of easy wins for SH teams in Nov seem gone. The gap has closed and the SH players look knackered.

Aye – and Toonie is clearly using these 4 games to try out combinations and to blood players so not playing his strongest team every game.  Its all about building for the world cup.  I think we will see Hastings at 12 at some point and Skinner will go to lock in place of toolis with Bluto ( strauss) coming on at 50 mins to run hard at the SA midfield

I do like the way you get in SA look knackered – just getting your excuses in first in case Scotland win?  😉  After all we know despite Scotlands decent record against SH sides they only beat knackered and weakened SH sides 😉  After all there must be some reason why Scotland can beat SA and Aus but Wales cannot

I suspect that scots midfield is too lightweight and so is the back row.  speed V power again!

We have this fast and loose gameplan which suits the players and gets wins but against SA we decide to go toe to toe.

We should run them ragged for 60mins then apply the pressure.

I think that is the plan as its a light and pacy scots team.  I suspect the game plan is pretty much that – Bluto to add the beef in the last 25 mins and a very powerful front row on the bench

But who knows given its townsend selecting.  He seems to find it irresistible to throw in a few oddities here and there.

Jeepers – just realised its 8 years since we beat SA.  Gawd I am getting old mutter mumble years fly by mutter mumble