RM have never filled me with confidence.
Is it valuable, would you like insurance?
Why?
In case it’s lost or stolen.
Who might do that?
Well, err, us.
Oh.

Would probably go down the Watchdog route. Anne Robinson won’t let them get a word in edgeways if they try to answer back.

That and start small claims.

T+C talk about gases, not empty containers.

Don’t send an innertube by post. The postie might get blown up.

I posted a link on reddit:

Reddit Link

To hopefully raise some awareness. Also hopefully people start tweeting etc.

So this ruling will also cover air forks as well? I would be seriously unhappy if my 36s i sold a few months back had been disposed of. This and price hikes means im not using them out of choice anymore.
How long will they survive trading on brand?

Not sure… don’t think so. Can I prove I wasn’t asked?

If I was to answer that question, i’d have said something like a “bicycle part”.

your response of bicycle part is technically correct and so you should be able to challenge this by stating that if that was not a suitable response they should have been more specific in their questioning of the contents of the package

Another place to raise it is with the papers, I know the Independent and a few others have a Consumer Watchdog section in their weekend supplements.

Twitter and Watchdog fo sho.

The former is likely to be pretty effective I’d say. Think about the wider ramifications of what they’ve said – gotta be other industries/companies who’ll fall foul of their “nothing that can possible contain compressed gases” stupidity.

Not sure… don’t think so. Can I prove I wasn’t asked?

If I was to answer that question, i’d have said something like a “bicycle part”.

Is there not an angle here that for their T&Cs to apply you need to have been notified of them when you handed the goods in for delivery. Can they prove that you were notified of their T&Cs?

Worth tweeting a few bike magazines with @RoyalMail tagged in with the link to this thread, also tweet industry news bods/bloggers etc.

STW
Bike Radar
Bike Biz
etc and so on

“Because the product is charged by filling with compressed air and whether it is full or not it is deemed a prohibited item under the above guidelines.”

Does that mean you can no longer post inner tubes?

Even though “Royal mail” and The “Post office” are part of the bigger “Royal mail group” of companies they are two totally separate companies in reality. I would be going after the post office as they accepted the item from you and didn’t ask relevant questions about the package meeting the terms and conditions. From my experience as a postie a lot of post office counters have absolutely no idea of what royal mail can or can’t carry, or even the max dimension of what we can or can’t take.

I remember being told by a local post office counter that the handle bars I was trying to post were above permitted dimensions, even though that day I had delivered a car bumper and a box from amazon so big I could have fitted in it!
Also nothing to do with privatisation as we have seen absolutely no change to how we work since it happened.

don’t forget that just because you’ve “implied” that you agree to their T&Cs by using their services or some such bollocks, their T&Cs aren’t THE LAW and they can be challenged especially when their practices don’t match up with their policies.
get legal advice from the CAB or a mate who works in legal. throw in some words with legal jargon in along with demands for escalation and see what happens.
perseverance normally gets you somewhere in the end.

Don’t have twitter but might need to setup an account and get a lesson! 😀

I’ve email the Chief Exec so will see what happens. I doubt she monitor’s her own mailbox though.

Thanks for all the support guys! makes me feel a “bit” better.

Crag – Member
“Because the product is charged by filling with compressed air and whether it is full or not it is deemed a prohibited item under the above guidelines.”

Does that mean you can no longer post inner tubes?

Party Balloons? Won’t someone think of the children!?

Shit in a Pringles tube and post them that to dispose of.

thats fooking shocking, surely the MONG who opened the package must have relaised it was of some value??

cant see how its legal to just BIN something on the basis ‘it may be dodgy’

absolutly shocking stuff by RM, i wont be sending anything battery/light/or shock wise via them until they sort this shite out

“Because the product is charged by filling with compressed air and whether it is full or not it is deemed a prohibited item under the above guidelines.”

This is making me slightly nervous about the forks I just sold that are currently in their clutches….

You’d be surprised, no doubt she’ll have people that look at it, but reckon complaints will be flagged.

Does that mean you can no longer post inner tubes?

By their logic yep! And tubeless tyres technically, tubs certainly.

ROFL at Parksie 😆

parkesie – Member
Shit in a Pringles tube and post them that to dispose of.

That would be a prohibited substance to post 😛

no doubt she’ll have people that look at it, but reckon complaints will be flagged.

I expect it will still get fed to the complaints department, possibly with a slightly elevated status on it. slightly higher than the current status of “couldn’t give a shit”.

Personally I’d also be watching Ebay. Bizarre. How did they know? Oh the person clocked that it was going to Mojo. I wonder where these siezed iterms go – they’d have to dispose of them in the same way they were scared over the contents surely.

Its YOUR property. I wouldn’t accept what they say. They should have refused to delivery and return. Unless their terms explicitly say ‘dispose’ or sieze’.

I had a ding dong with RM a few years ago when Fox36’s that I posted went missing in their depot and they wouldn’t pay out- this was after countless letter requests for more info with (if you don’t reply witihn one day we’ll close the case). After something like the 4th such letter I kicked off and asked for the Depot Manager to call me. I asked for the Police to be involved and two days later a cheque arrived.

To recap, if they say the shock has been destroyed ask them for proof of this. i.e a specialist contractor disposed of the dangerous shock- or just go on the attack. Email the Dept and inform them you’ll pursue them for money for the item unless its returned within 7days.

I’d would be absolutely raging.

Were the Royal Mails terms of carriage explained to you when you posted the shock – up to and including disposing of expensive items you have posted with no hope of come back or compensation? No were they f***!

So how can they possibly dispose of something according to T&C’s you not been made aware of?

I think they are covering their arses with the filled or not. That way they don’t have to waste time determining whether something is filled or not if not immediately apparent to someone not qualified to check if so. I am sure they would not be happy about delivering inflated balloons as who knows what they have been filled with.
But any simpleton can differentiate between that and a new empty balloon .

I too would like to know what happened to it as this may help your case.
If (like I would believe it) it was thrown in a bin it would mean they obviously did not consider it that dangerous as it would surely be putting other people in danger. Or do they use these.

Seriously, how the hell is anyone (i.e. a person rather than a company) supposed to post anything other than a letter these days? And what about last mile deliveries? I’m sure if I’d bought something off Amazon that contained liquid or gas it would have got to me ok, but this is just madness.

OP,

Good luck getting satisfaction from them. Do you think small claims would be an option?

ask them which law permits them to dispose of items owned by other legal persons

*awaits postierich’s new shock on his canyon*

Scroll to the bottom of this thread;

LINK

It appears that they auction off some seized goods.

It also appears that there has been some new law brought in regarding what can and cannot be transported in the postal network.

Someone mentioned this a page or two back, but T&Cs that are particularly onerous should be clearly flagged to a customer rather than be deemed to be accepted blindly, as in brought explicitly to attention.

I would say that the possibility that the things you’re sending might be binned without notice or compensation falls within that category. On that basis, anyone accepting packages should be very clearly pointing those T&Cs out to you and very specific in asking you what you’re sending.

This point is well worth flagging up when they try to fob you off with their standard terms.

well… just had a call from a gentleman at RM HQ, my email to the Chief Exec was picked up and is now being dealt with. They will look into it tomorrow and get back to me.

I just hope it’s still there and not been destroyed!

Fingers crossed.

My local PO always ask what’s in my parcels now, which may suppport what flatboy says above.

Good to hear Paul – keep us posted (groan – just realised the pun here) – keen to hear the outcome of this…

I reckon that we’re into the leagues of unfair contract terms and conditions

specifically:

unfairly limiting losses
unclear T&C’s at time of posting & formality
lack of notice of intent to rely on breach of contract by customer
service provider adopting absolute right of final decision on whether something is in breach of T&C with no formal appeal process
service provider taking themselves outside of normal law by disposing of items belonging to customer
service provider retaining payment for services when not fulfilling contract (i.e.. not delivering as contracted to do so)

Etc – so you could consider a complaint to Office Fair Trading or even small claims court relying on unfair contract conditions

this is from the link that Devash posted:

I have sent an enquiry to the Royal Mail, ( http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help- … t-in-touch) asking for clarification on the disposal of confiscated prohibited items such as aftershave and perfume.

I will let you all know what, if any, response I get.

This was the response I recieved:-
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
I would like to explain that the method of disposal for prohibited goods sent in the post is determined by the nature of the item concerned. In some instances, items may be sent to recycle, handed to the relevant authorities including the Police and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC), or sold at auction, with any monies raised used to fund the National Returns Centre’s work.
I hope the above information concludes the matter for you and if you do need to contact us again, please do not hesitate to do so.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So, it would seem that these goods are sold at auction. Nice.

all i can say is WTF?!?!?
OP i really think you should threaten them with police involvement as it has to be classed as theft…

If its siezed as dangerous, then how can they go on to sell the item(s) on Ebay? Considering they’d have to SEND THE ITEM TO THE WINNER.

well… just had a call from a gentleman at RM HQ, my email to the Chief Exec was picked up and is now being dealt with. They will look into it tomorrow and get back to me.

nice one!! keep us informed of what happens next!!

What about people who send entire MTBs via the postal system? Surely that is allowed, afterall, it’s a bike, not a nuclear weapon!

The “compressed gasses” is just a coverall really. A bike shock, even when full of air at 200psi (which, incidentally is at least 10x less than say a scuba cylinder) and only holds a couple of grams of air. I would send a quick email to Fox, and ask for the “COSH” certificate they use to ship there shocks around the world. If that says “non hazardous” you have a good case in a court of law.

Lets be honest, there are tens of millions of bike shocks in use, every day, under far far harder conditions that those encountered in transit (even by the “kick it around” couriers..) and i have never heard of anyone being hurt by one directly?

Is it for example, possible to send a can of coke via the post? The compressed volume and pressures are very similar!

If its siezed as dangerous, then how can they go on to sell the item(s) on Ebay? Considering they’d have to SEND THE ITEM TO THE WINNER.

Check that thread I just posted above. It appears that Royal Mail themselves sell the items at an auction house, then resellers buy them and resell on ebay, using Royal Mail to deliver.

Not every item is being scanned so RM are still delivering ‘prohibited goods’ that aren’t picked up by their systems, which makes it all the more bizarre (and as others have said, liable to an unfair contract challenge in court).

Their disposal method is interesting… it’s not safe to deliver but it’s safe to handle and sell on… 😕

Still amazed by this, as I said earlier, I posted and received back my RP2 via royal mail with no problems. They did ask me what was in it, and I said a shock absorber for a bicycle.

They MUST have realised when they took your shock out of the box that it wasn’t some sort of dodgy canister, and had obvious value. Their Ts&Cs suck, they should contact you to collect it if it’s not suitable for carriage, not bin the bloody thing. Aghh!

Really hope you get a result on this mate.