Royal mail have binned my rear shock!

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  • Royal mail have binned my rear shock!
  • Maybe worth keeping an eye on here: http://www.i-bidder.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues?clientUrlName=wellers-auctioneers

    I assume the catalogue for the bike sale on the 14th Jan will pop up on there sometime in the next week or two… along with your shock possible OP.

    I too wont be risking sending anything with RM again. Horrendous customer practice.

    This.

    Impressed by Mojo, will be giving them work in the future

    And this.

    What are the alternatives to popping down to the post office and asking for them to (try to) send a parcel though?

    Premier Icon AjsMonkey
    Subscriber

    Just tweeted this to Royal Mail as it’s truly beyond belief. Hope you get to the bottom of it and i’ll be avoiding the RM. Also deeming all the incorrectly delivered mail to my house as dangerous, along with the junk mail flyers they have the right to deliver, thus making me move it to the recycling bin on a daily basis.

    This is really not on @royalmail Deeming safe items dangerous, selling cust property & poor T&Cs not disclosed at PoS?http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/royal-mail-have-binned-my-rear-shock/page/10#post-5613028

    rickt
    Member

    I wonder what the RM turnover total for this year is for the re-sold items ??

    holy shit well done mojo

    but seriously WTF if they deem it dangerous etc and dispose of it surely that means its destroyed?!!?!?!?!?

    they are going to flog it on a auction website!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! that is just un-****-believable, thats basically a scam in as many words in my eyes, pick a few thousand things through their network everyday that they think looks valuable, confiscate them, send them the customer the t&c’s from the site telling them its a dangerous item, then with no way of comeback for the customer, simply flog the goods on ebay, no doubt to be posted by RM themselves

    absolute WAkNKSTAINS

    i will not be sending anything package wise via them from now on, robbing scamming barstewards

    seriously im absolutly gobsmacked they are allowed to sell on these ‘dangerous’ items, i despair of this country sometimes 🙁

    plyphon
    Member

    Man this is almost unbelievable.

    Doing my part, have tweeted HERE

    @RoyalMail admits to SELLING customers #mtb shock http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/royal-mail-have-binned-my-rear-shock/page/10 … @bikeradar @BikeBizOnline #custserv #custexp @BBCWatchdog

    And have posted on Reddit:

    Here in /r/mtb

    And here in /r/bicycling

    Wellers have asked me to email their customer services so I have done. Right…now to look up my local MP…

    Someone asked above where i’m located… Edinburgh.

    Premier Icon thv3
    Subscriber

    That cannot be legal?

    Wonder how many Christmas parcels are going to be auctioned off by royal mail?

    Premier Icon rickmeister
    Subscriber

    I wonder what the RM turnover total for this year is for the re-sold items ??

    FOI request… ?

    Premier Icon deadkenny
    Subscriber

    PaulGillespie – Member
    Just spoken to the Police. They seemed to think it was not a case of theft or handling stolen goods but it was regarded as a business transaction and that I should consult legal advice or Ofcom should I wish to pursue it further.

    Have just added Ofcom to my list to contact.
    They probably meant the OFT, Office of Fair Trading. Ofcom deals with communications. Phones, broadband etc.

    Sadly they may be right. It’s a contractual issue. You entered into a contract effectively by handing over the goods. They didn’t deliver on the contract to deliver the goods and have breached it by not informing you that the item was not allowed when posting or checking the item and not stressing that they will “destroy” / auction the item at their leisure. That’s one for the civil courts basically, not criminal. A member of staff stealing the item is criminal but that’s up to them to deal with. The contract was just between you and them to deliver the item and they have failed to do so and failed to return the item. They should therefore be paying up in full or return the item, plus compensation and costs.

    Makes for a lot more hassle as you’ve got to take them to court.

    Still, talk to OFT and see what they say. Citizens Advice could give some help also perhaps.

    edward2000
    Member

    Is the Royal Mail guilty of Embezzlement? They took advantage of your situation for their own financial benefit. I do not believe for 1 second they have the right to sell something which does not belong to them.

    hahahah am i reading this correctly? surely ive missed something?

    they’ve taken your shock as dangerous? they’ve told you its to be disposed of? its then transported by RM themselves to an auctioneer? its then sold for a big profit (easily 250-350 on ebay), and the customer who paid his postage ends up losing out on a shock, his postage and then to boot the RM makes a £250-300 profit from this said item?!?!?

    just absurd, deeming it dangerous is ridiculous, but at least if they genuinely felt this it should be disposed of, not flogged to an auction house and sold on for profit

    i cant see how this is legal in the slightest, morally its absolutly shocking but RM clearly has non of these, but legally too?

    wow im just godsmacked they’d literally steal a £500 piece of equipment off somebody just like that without contacting them first or similar 🙁

    Houns
    Member

    They probably meant the OFT, Office of Fair Trading. Ofcom deals with communications. Phones, broadband etc.

    Blimey, how did we communicate before broadband & phones? 😉

    http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/tell-us/postal-services/

    bigmick25
    Member

    The problem is as mentioned above, by handing over the item and payment you have entered into a contract with RM.

    They discharge all responsibility for checking if the item is prohibited with this statement lifted from their website and states that they will dispose of it as they see fit.

    You are responsible for checking whether or not an item is prohibited or restricted. If you send prohibited goods or restricted goods (and you do not comply with the relevant terms and conditions), we may deal with your items as we see fit, including but not limited to, disposing of the parcels concerned (in whole or in part).

    Its harsh but I think you will have a hard battle in court to prove its theft or anything similar.

    5thElefant
    Member

    If you buy the dangerous contraband shock from the auctioneer how do they post it to you?

    plyphon
    Member

    Blimey, how did we communicate before broadband & phones?

    http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/tell-us/postal-services/

    ha, that’s quite funny.

    Premier Icon H1ghland3r
    Subscriber

    Only peripherally related to the ongoing discussion but my wife just returned from some last minute xmas pressie posting at the local post office, I happened to mention this thread to her and she recounted how she was presented with a laminated list of ‘banned’ substances and asked to provide assurance that none of those items were in the package. The teller went out of her way to highlight the ‘containers that hold compressed gas’ item on the list.
    Secondly the wife happened to mention that she was hoping to get the parcel to it’s destination by a certain date, was told that the only way that would happen was by using Special Delivery by 9am at a cost of £10ish. My wife said that was more than the value of the parcel and that she would take her chances on a lower carriage. The teller refused to allow her to send on anything other than the Special mentioned..
    This is definately a new policy as the local PO staff are very nice, we know them well and they were not at all comfortable forcing excess charges on people.!!
    Got to say I’m loving the benefits of the newly privatised PO.. 🙄

    Premier Icon Twodogs
    Subscriber

    What Bigmick25 said unless the Ts&Cs are deemed unfair by a court

    Premier Icon Onzadog
    Subscriber

    Have you asked them directly if you can have your property back? If they refuse, ask when you can have it back. If they can’t tell you when, isn’t that a clear intent to permenantly deprive you of your property? I’d imagine any danger from this item, actual, implied or assumed has now been neutralized or negated under their duty of care.

    Premier Icon deadkenny
    Subscriber

    Houns – Member
    They probably meant the OFT, Office of Fair Trading. Ofcom deals with communications. Phones, broadband etc.
    Blimey, how did we communicate before broadband & phones?

    http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/tell-us/postal-services/
    😀 … good point. I stand corrected. Sort of. I bet OFT still have a roll to play though. On one side RM are the communication aspect of delivering the goods (does that count as communication, or would that only be for information, i.e. the content of a letter?). On the other side, OFT for a contract for a service.

    Anyway, try them both 😀

    Bigmick, they accepted my parcel without discussing the T&Cs with me, I never signed anything or agreed to anything. If they asked what was in the package, I might have replied that it was a bike component. If that’s the case, they accepted my parcel.

    It is a very grey area and to be honest even if it doesn’t win in court, that fact that it got so far and got so much publicity will hopefully be enough for RM to review their policies and procedures…Victory!

    Hiding behind the premise that it was a dangerous item for air travel (their argument) doesn’t cut it. Airlines accept air suspension on flights. I have personally been asked by check-in staff if i have removed the air from my suspension.

    My complaint is not that my item was identified as dangerous, it’s that they made zero attempt to contact me for me to collect in person, they deemed it safe enough to transport and sell on via an auction, they are profiting from a possession of mine.

    Who else is this going to effect going forward, not just cyclists, all walks of life.

    DanW
    Member

    If this happened in Russia or China a lot of us would shrug our shoulders and say “well the system is corrupt, what do expect?”

    As unfair a sweeping generalisation as that sounds, having family in these areas it is exactly the case! One recent example would be my Wife’s mum posting a necklace to her for her Birthday.

    “Would you like to insure the package?”
    “Yes, please. XXX amount”
    “What is in the package?”
    “A necklace”

    Never to be seen again! It didn’t even make it past the person working in the post office or on to the posting system despite being given a receipt of postage! No way could we get it back either or even get a response. You just have to not be so naive to tell someone there is anything of any value in the package.

    Luckily we have it pretty good in the UK although the Royal Mail have been properly shady and stupid with the handling and information they have divulged in this case. Pretty stupid to admit auctioning it off! Either tell people to get lost and take a small hit on occasionally getting sued (the Ryanair/ Russian post approach) or work for genuinely good customer service but at the expense of greater operating costs to the RM. One or the other, not a bodged attempt at combining customer service with shady operating practices 😀

    If you take this to the small claims court you will most likely win but at the end of the day RM have little to lose and unfortunately don’t give a monkeys about the case. Chances are they wouldn’t even contest it. The problem is also so niche it is highly unlikely to affect their business unfortunately from a PR point of view. Most people don’t consider posting any other way than RM.

    That being said, the OP has dealt with this fantastically and the pursuit of the case is admirable. I’d have given up by now 😳

    I’m no fan of Mojo but good on them for making sure the OP has nothing to lose either!

    Best of luck!

    bigmick25
    Member

    Mate, I feel your pain but as with a lot of transactions in life by entering into the transaction (i.e. by handing over monies and goods to be transported) you are entering into a legally binding contract and the supplier does not have to highlight the T&C’s to you the responsibility is on you to read them.
    As far as their right to dispose of the goods without notifying you I fully agree is wrong (not necessarily illegal) but its stated in their T&C’s so they will argue that point in court.

    I hope you don’t think I’m trying to defend the RM here, I agree they are a bunch of useless f**kwits and I feel for you but this is just another example of how companies operate under the umbrella of complicated and implied T&C’s.I’m not saying it is right but they will defend the case by stating that all their actions are highlighted in their T&C’s.

    I personally speak from experience of this with RM and some motorcycle parts I sent and despite me using full legal advice I was advised it would be money down the drain to pursue the matter further.

    I am wholeheartedly behind you publicising this as the vast majority of people do not realise how exposed they are to this sort of thing when sending items

    Premier Icon fathomer
    Subscriber

    I’m utterly speechless!

    Apart from saying well done Mojo and PaulGillespie for staying so calm. As mentioned by someone else, I’d be ‘flipping my shit’.

    plyphon
    Member

    (i.e. by handing over monies and goods to be transported) you are entering into a legally binding contract and the supplier does not have to highlight the T&C’s to you the responsibility is on you to read them.

    But if a contract is unfair business or unreasonable it can be challenged in court.

    For example, say I own a taxi. Say I pick you up. I have some T&C on the back seat of the car. In the small print it says “On accepting this taxi you agree to give me your first born son”.

    You pay me, I go collect your son.

    You get the idea.

    theflatboy
    Member

    Big mick, that’s not true if they are particularly onerous. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, for the amounts involved I’d be going to the small claims court to require them to defend themselves or more likely settle beforehand.

    jecca
    Member

    It does state on the website:-
    You are responsible for checking whether or not an item is prohibited or restricted

    This line is my problem:
    3. All non-flammable compressed gases are prohibited
    A very clear statement which seems like a very unfair policy statement as it is so vague and could mean many things to different people.

    I gave them a ring to badger them to clarify the policy. I suggest everyone else does the same, will be sending emails too. Don’t just leave it to Paul and others.

    Royalmail have been great in my experience but this is not good!

    If this is part of some ‘transporting dangerous goods act’ will all carriers be tied by the same regs at some point?

    julians
    Member

    Small claims route costs very little , I think it cost us £70 to initiate proceedings a few years back when we had to do it, but is quite labour intensive.

    If you feel strongly enough to spend your time fighting it, then this is probably the correct route to go down. It took us about 1.5 years from initiating proceeding to getting our money back, but it worked for us (this was not against royal mail though).

    I’m no legal eagle , but it sounds like you’d have good shot at winning this.

    plyphon
    Member

    I gave them a ring to badger them to clarify the policy. I suggest everyone else does the same, will be sending emails too. Don’t just leave it to Paul and others.

    Actually tempted to ring them to ask if a football is allowed to be posted.

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    But if a contract is unfair business or unreasonable it can be challenged in court.

    This

    Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

    Regulation 5(1)[n 3] defines the principle of unfair:

    “Causes significant imbalance”. For a term to be deemed unfair, this requires the term to be to the detriment of the consumer and benefit the seller or supplier to an excessive degree.

    I think it would be hard for RM to argue that selling on confiscated goods for profit with no notice, right of appeal or hope of compensation was fair.

    Again hats off to the OP, I think it would be difficult for me to remain calm in the face of such gross intransigence

    And well done Mojo

    wrecker
    Member
    plyphon
    Member

    Today I learned: intransigence

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    Story on the Daily Fail

    Lost Parcels Sold on Ebay

    I think they would love to know about “dangerous” goods being confiscated and sold too.

    will762
    Member

    I’m sending this to my mate who is a sub-ed at the Register. Not sure if it’s their cup of tea, but worth a try.

    ijs445ra
    Member

    Royal Mail are a PLC now buy a share and get along to the AGM with some bombers

    EDIT: Who do the RM then get to deliver the package once sold on since they cant do it themselves?

    I need to return a faulty light switch to the supplier, but my solicitor has broken up for Christmas.

    Shall I just wing it or am I better off using an alternative courier?

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Bitterwallet love this sort of story – I’d contact them.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Paul wrote:

    Someone asked above where i’m located… Edinburgh.

    I’ve checked on Google maps. Edinburgh to Risca, 393 miles – far too dangerous for them to transport it there. Edinburgh to Chertsey, 411 miles – best take it there instead. I’m assuming the dangerous goods don’t magically make their own way to Chertsey. I think you have your first piece of evidence about the contractual terms being unreasonable right there if they’re claiming the reason they have to dispose of the shock is that they can’t transport it.

    I_Am_Sparticus wrote:

    What are the alternatives to popping down to the post office and asking for them to (try to) send a parcel though?

    All sorts – many companies will pick up, several provide drop off locations at least as convenient as the RM – I use MyHermes a lot for ebay sales as they’re significantly cheaper than RM/PF for larger parcels (just sent a Rothan using them – less than half the price of PF with MyHermes).

    http://www.parcel2go.com/ is the standard place offering a variety of different alternative carriers to the general public – compare and contrast.

    BTW it occurred to me that the reason this thread has gone the way it has is that we’re all thinking “could have been me” – presumably pretty much everybody on here owns or has owned some sort of suspension component, and the vast majority of us have sent them off to be serviced (IIRC I’ve used 4 different companies and probably sent shocks or forks for service at least 10 times, all I think using RM or PF).

    That’s watchdog been informed.

    whatnobeer
    Member

    That’s watchdog been informed.

    Excellent. Hope they get they get back to you. At the very least a change in policy by Royal Mail to explicitly state what can and cant be sent at the point of sail is needed, similar to checking in baggage for a flight.

    Bitterwallet informed.

    jekkyl
    Member

    can someone with photoshop skills make up a scumbag royal mail logo.

    ninfan
    Member

    Thats it, I’m so upset at this that I’ve just sold all my Royal Mail Shares

    For a measly £600 profit as well 🙁

    Hmm – might buy myself a new shock 😀

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