You’re not doing it right then

Clearly!

Lead climbing for me is a terrifying race against time to place gear before my arms get pumped and I fall to my death.

I love the actual climbing part, but I spend about 10% of my time climbing and 90% of my time thinking I am going to die.

Your belayer is the most important part of the system, and yes, they can fail.

That’s exactly my point. Any safety system that is useless when the operator isn’t 100% concentrating isn’t much of a safety system in my book.

Fail-safe systems exist, but no-one wants to use them 🙄

I love the “you’re not doing it right” replies when someone says he or she is afraid of lead climbing.

It’s perfectly natural to be afraid when lead climbing, especially on trad rock. I’m sure there’s a statistic to say that going for a drive is more dangerous but when something goes wrong when you’re climbing, the consequences are often very serious.

It takes some people ages to get used to leading in the (relatively) safe environs of a climbing wall. Telling them “you’re doing it wrong” is a surefire way of getting them up those walls like a mountain goat.

If there is only poor gear sitting between you and a death fall then you’re definitely doing something wrong (unless you happen to be climbing at the top end of the sport)

What about poor rock / ice / rockfall? All present in the mountains whatever grade you are climbing.

Clearly!

Lead climbing for me is a terrifying race against time to place gear before my arms get pumped and I fall to my death.

I love the actual climbing part, but I spend about 10% of my time climbing and 90% of my time thinking I am going to die.

I don’t want to sound like an experienced climber here, just as someone who has been through the same sort of feelings quite recently……

drop a few grades – get back down on to really easy Mods and Diffs where you could solo it no problem. You don’t have to worry about getting pumped when placing gear because there will be nice comfortable positions to do so.

Then just keep doing that until you find yourself picking higher grades without even realising it. That’s what I did. The mods and diffs allow me to focus on my head game, practice placing gear in less stressful environments, and allow my partner and I to really get a slick system working between us…all without too much pressure.

You’re spot on about the 90/10 though – lead climbing is almost all in the head. It’s the biggest head game I’ve ever come across.

Fail-safe systems exist, but no-one wants to use them

If you mean gri-gris, they are used, but mostly in sport where falls are more regular. I don’t like them for two reasons – it’s not difficult to thread them incorrectly (bad!), and I’d rather my belayer was stopping the rope, rather than expecting a device to help them. it changes the mindset of the belayer to an extent.

What about poor rock / ice / rockfall? All present in the mountains whatever grade you are climbing.

Point taken, but I’m still at the stage of picking easier routes which are described/known for having good gear. The point I was trying to make, is that if you’re head isn’t allowing you to lead at all, then drop back to a level where it will, which is in the easier and well protected routes. Local knowledge is awesome for that, the first time I seconded The Flying Dutchman at Polldubh, I was bricking it, despite it being (just) within my grade to lead it. Someone knew it well and told me it was a tricky and exposed lead for the grade, so i seconded it.

drop a few grades – get back down on to really easy Mods and Diffs where you could solo it no problem

I used to lead S when I could do 5c or 6a indoors. The problem is that there’s not much choice in the lower grades, and what there is is often polished to hell and busy.

I’d rather do long V Diffs in the mountains but my partners weren’t that interested.

If you mean gri-gris

No, there’s a wild country one that is safe for trad gear and can also take a double rope (afaik). It’s harder to use than an ATC though, but it’s worth practising with imo.

Re gear – yes, I am doing it wrong, but for whatever reason I often think I’ve placed good gear and it falls out. Plus whilst there are plenty of placements at lower grades, one of the things that makes higher trad grades higher is lack of gear. Je n’aime pas.

I love a difficult climbing problem, but I don’t want the problem to be overwhelmed by the safety gear cos for me it destroys the whole experience. I don’t wake up in the morning and think ‘what a lovely morning to struggle to make myself safe’.

The best days I’ve had have been either long mountain easy route like the Cyfry Arete or at places like Stanage where it’s not very high and you can whack in some gear ahead of time and concentrate on the problem.

Molgrips, how about a bit of bouldering?

Bridestones is nice at the mo.

Re gear – yes, I am doing it wrong, but for whatever reason I often think I’ve placed good gear and it falls out. Plus whilst there are plenty of placements at lower grades, one of the things that makes higher trad grades higher is lack of gear. Je n’aime pas.

I love a difficult climbing problem, but I don’t want the problem to be overwhelmed by the safety gear cos for me it destroys the whole experience. I don’t wake up in the morning and think ‘what a lovely morning to struggle to make myself safe’.

Yeah, it’s often a choice of an easy route which is poorly protected, or a tricky route which is well protected – often a lose/lose feeling first thing in the morning! 🙂

To be honest molgrips, I often get the feeling of “I’d just rather not lead today” and second up everything, just enjoying the climbing. I reckon quite a lot of climbers do.

If that happens I tend to just drop waaaay back to a really easy multi pitch route. I’m quite spoiled having big easy routes nearby (Polldubh is just perfect) that are generally quiet and in good condition.

Have you thought about taking out an instructor to work on gear placements, from both a technical perspective and for giving you confidence? Anna and I tend to do a weekend with an instructor every few months – it really helps both of us (especially to give confidence). I can’t imagine not having clocked up those hours of an expert telling me my gear was good, my confidence would be no where near high enough to lead.

Bouldering, yes I’ve done a bit of that. Not as much fun since it’s all fingery tiny holds which I don’t like, but still a good way to spend a day.

Have you thought about taking out an instructor to work on gear placements, from both a technical perspective and for giving you confidence?

Hmm, perhaps. I do know when my gear isn’t good, but I tend not to have much choice. What I need is regular experience and good training, and I never really got that even when was climbing. Just didn’t get out often enough.

The big issue then was lack of a regular partner, and the issue now is family 🙂

Hmm, perhaps. I do know when my gear isn’t good, but I tend not to have much choice. What I need is regular experience and good training, and I never really got that even when was climbing. Just didn’t get out often enough.

The big issue then was lack of a regular partner, and the issue now is family

I just spotted the part in your other post about wanting to do easier big mountain routes…that’s the main reason I got into climbing. Cragging is good fun, but the mountains are where I want to be. I’d happily take the satisfaction of a really long mountain Diff over just having pushed my grade on a roadside crag.

Not having a regular partner would probably destroy my confidence. I can see where you are coming from, I can’t imagine having to worry about my belayer as i’m fumbling with a bit of gear. Not having to think about that allows you to really clear your head and just focus on the rock.

I know this sounds daft, but I tend to practise gear placements at ground level. Just wandering along a bit of rock, placing all my gear and trying to find the sweetspots and checking how they react to different movements/pulls. I’ve probably placed more gear on the ground than I have on routes! 🙂 It’s great for technical practise and means that when you’re on a route there is less time faffing and getting pumped/flaking out because something doesn’t fit and you’ve tried for 5 mins to get the right wire!

In the NE Cap’n ?
YGM
Always looking for new members !
G.

Don’t know if you’ve thought about this, but what gear are you placing? Friends and other cam devices can be easier to fit, but they can also wander out – old-fashioned nuts and hexes don’t do that as long as you set them with a tug.

Definitely practice at ground level a lot until you get confident setting gear.

Going back a bit, I think this is worth picking up on.

Both were at fault.

Couldn’t agree more with this. The belayer made a frankly retarded error, but the climber should’ve checked his second before climbing.

When I first started climbing regularly, this was hammered into me by my (much more experienced) climbing partner. I questioned the folly of *me* checking *his* gear when he’d been doing this for years and I hadn’t, he told me that it didn’t matter, anyone can make mistakes and it’s a good habit to get into from the start.

When I take new people out now, I always impart that same information (and usually get the same reaction back that I gave Rob all those years ago).

Cougar, have a look at the Karabiner Mountaineering Club website, kmc.co.uk, loads of weekday & weekend meets, nice people.

Seemingly http://www.karabiner.org/ . Looks interesting, and they meet in The Briton’s Protection so gets my vote. (-: Ta.

TBH though, when I asked I wasn’t really “looking for a partner” particularly, so much as just idly wondering if anyone here fancied hitting a wall sometime.

Glad to see this thread!

I used to love climbing back about 10yrs ago, always went out with some friends to some rocks in the area, only tried the artificial rocks once. Got out of it when I had to have knee surgery but have been keen on giving it a go again. 😀

hmm, not to be too down – but anyone climb and wonder what all the fuss is about?

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate it. But y’know, rather be out on the bike.

Plus whilst there are plenty of placements at lower grades, one of the things that makes higher trad grades higher is lack of gear

I’m going to have to disagree with this. A harder trad route will not necessarily have a lack of gear. There are so many harder routes that have perfect gear and the difficulty is in the climbing rather than purely being in the head. Look at things like London Wall, Bat Out of Hell,, Right Wall etc.
This is a common misunderstanding of the British grading system, that a high adjectival grade = a dangerous route when it’s not the case. This then helps propagate the myth that trad climbing is all death on a stick. Good for kudos when among euro sport climbers, but not necessarily ideal.

Be off with your London Wall! This is a thread for bumblies. Whilst my mate seemed to get plenty of wires in, I was content to belay on that occasion. Then he sauntered up White Wall. Git. I fell off Tippler later that day. I was tired alright.

But y’know, rather be out on the bike

I climbed more than biked for quite a few years at one point in my life.

A harder trad route will not necessarily have a lack of gear

No, of course, but the E1s with decent gear are far too difficult or scary for me, and the ones I could climb are the ones with little protection. I don’t have the skill, the endurance or the minerals.

Cougar – I’d be up for climbing sometime. I used to go to the wall in Preston a bit though it’s not amazing.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate it. But y’know, rather be out on the bike.

I used to climb a bit but most of the time I’d rather be biking. Doing multi-pitch routes in the mountains feels like a proper adventure though, I’d like to get back into that side of it.

I’ve only lead up to Severe but I found trad leading the most rewarding part of climbing – nothing I’ve ever done is quite as intense/committing as going for a move you’re not sure about high up on a trad lead.

I’m kind of a climber.

Of late, sadly, it’s mostly been cranking plastique at the wall although I did manage a couple of days trad last week. Should have done my first on sight HVS (bouldered out the first couple of moves of what looked liked the crux) but lack of mileage this year put me off…. 😳

I find sport I can climb til I drop but trad mentally I’m done before I’m physically stuffed.

I’m off into the Cairngorms tomorrow for some multi pitching. I paid for a couple of days guiding a couple of years back but the last day was rained off. Tomorrow is that day. Need to brush up my technique, all that stance stuff and route finding is the hardest bits!

Use to love doing it but several injuries put paid to it 🙁

Ah, yes, I got the address wrong.
Not good, seeing as I’m on the committee 😀

Everyone welcome btw, plenty going on, excellent hut in Snowdonia, Alps trips etc.

Grum > might just take you up on that. Need to shake this cold first though.

To the OP: ignore whoever suggested getting a fingerboard. They’re really designed to train existing finger strength and are likely to lead to injuries if you’re just starting out. There really isn’t a shortcut to finger strength so just be patient and it will come. At your stage fo the game, just keep getting mileage in and you are bound to improve and make sure you enjoy it.

If you do progress to successful outdoor leading, you’ll find a feeling quite unlike anything else.

Grum > might just take you up on that. Need to shake this cold first though.

Yeah just give me a shout – I think my email is in my profile.

I warn you though that I’m as bad at climbing as you are at mountain biking. 😛

UKclimbing is a good forum

It was scorchio in the gorms today.

Did fallout corner (it was wet the first half) and savage slit (well apart from the last 10m pitch).

That’s all…

I love to climb but this ^^^ I absolutely hate. I do not like to be in genuine danger of death.

sport climbing then go for the difficulty without the worry of iffy gear.

or decent highball bouldering

or deep water soloing….THAT IS ACE!

I don’t get this genuine danger of death thing. Yeah, you can get seriously freaked out some days, but then again others the same thing won’t even ruffle the mental feathers… You just need to get over that.

Tazzy hits the nail on the head though, go sport climbing and buy a cheat stick. On a good day I’ll climb 6b but that doesn’t stop me having a go on 6c+ or 7a ‘just see how it feels’ if I’m on a roll. I would never think, oh I’ll just see how this E2/E3 feels though…

Lead my first proper route of the year last weekend, amazing terrifying and wierd but slipped right back into it.

As for gear a wise man once told me:
Your first 1000 pieces are utter s**t,
the next thousand aren’t much better.

Climbed up to HVS/E1 on Grit and loved it. Pushed me mentally in ways biking can’t and was always much more flexible when I climbed.
As for people looking for quiet unpolished low grade routes they are there just a little off the main crags. Get the comprehensive guides for an area.

As for belay devices and the belayers, I have no issue with a traditional device so long as I know the belayer. If I don’t know them you wont see me on the pointy end. GriGri’s are spawn of Satan though and should never be let near a novice.

Looking forward to getting back into it.

I warn you though that I’m as bad at climbing as you are at mountain biking.

Thanks for that (-: I used to be a reasonable climber but it’s been at least a year since I’ve been so I’m going to be very rusty I suspect. IIRC West View isn’t particularly taxing though.

if anyone fancies some brutally slopey thug stuff, I’m happy to show folks some great little bouldering spots in the peak and churnet valley. I also have the biggest boulder mat in the world so no worries about taking a screamer from a high ball problem 🙂

The Churnet’s mega. Some great problems there, that are surprisingly though. High Speed Imp Act is probably the best there I reckon. Ina’s Rock is a stunning little crag too.

High Speed Imp Act is probably the best there I reckon.

there’s much much more tucked away!! I always like wrights traverse and there is super bold stuff in the quarry higher up the valley. 😉

Inertia Reel and the traverse in the peak were my old targets

Fair one, I haven’t explored that much. Is the quarry where Soul Survivor (?) is? Always wanted to have a go at that and the Pride.

I made it halfway up a 6b tonight!