I see that, but I also think that this is what racing is for. Strava and sportives are racing without the emotional investment, racing for people who don’t want to put their ego on the line, racing in private so you can take your ball home when you lose.

Get a licence, get racing.
You’ll get a lot more out of it than comparing virtual times on a screen.

Very well put.

I think the best way to encourage new cyclists into “proper” racing is to encourage participation in Sportives and the use of Strava and the like. It makes the transition from casual cyclist to committed and competitive cyclist much smoother. Both give the cyclist a platform whereby they can compare their ability against others and – assuming they’re not the slowest – encourage them to enter an official race. I don’t think the cycling community is doing itself any favours with this disparagement of sportives and Strava.

Strava and sportives are racing without the emotional investment, racing for people who don’t want to put their ego on the line, racing in private so you can take your ball home when you lose.

This is a good thing. Many cyclists want nothing more than this.

You’ll get a lot more out of it

This could be true, but you’ll only get out what you put in and therein lies the rub. I often wonder how good I’d be if I put more time, effort and commitment into cycle racing. Unfortunately I could also say the same about climbing, skiing, tennis, squash, hockey, running, driving, windsurfing and all the other activities I’ve participated in over the years. I’ve long since settled into my “jack of all trades master of none” persona 😀

Last nights 40 miler had myself and former STW wind up merchant GW averaging 20mph for the first hour . The second hour was back into a cross / head wind and we managed the last 20 miles in 1 hr 10mins.
On long rides of up to 100 miles the speed drops down to about 15 – 16 mph.

Strava and sportives are racing without the emotional investment, racing for people who don’t want to put their ego on the line, racing in private so you can take your ball home when you lose.

Not quite – Strava is for when you are not racing.

I tend to road ride sporadically & can’t get a decent comparison @ 30 miles. I do have a 52 miler (with 3,165 ft of climbing) that has been done several times this year – I’m averaging 16mph across different conditions.

In general terms, I find myself mid-table on Strava leaderboards & seem to pass as many other riders as those that pass me. As far as I’m concerned, locally speaking, I’m average.

Hillingdon Crits in the early 2000s. (1 hour + 5 laps). 4th cat race would average around 24mph. The E/1/2/3 would be around 27mph(for the bunch, not the break).

These were big bunches on one of the fastest crit circuits in the country.

At the time my club mates would consider 16/17mph on a solo road ride pretty good going, despite the fact most of us would be hovering at about an hour for a 25mile TT.

I average 17mph on a good day for 16.2 quite hilly miles to work. Proper average, like I start at one end, stop at the other, and I’ve taken 57 minutes total. Counting actual averages rather than ‘riding averages’/’cheating averages’ can make a real difference to people’s speeds too.

On the other hand, if I go up or down the valley rather than the hilly way, I’d be annoyed if I averaged much under 20.

I don’t use Strava right now, but I understand round here all the road routes are ridiculously fast, because we are a big place for road riding (on the A6 to Matlock), so a lot of good club riders set times (not to mention people using Strava on the big Tuesday night chaingang with probably 20 or more riders in the front group).

Drafting speeds can be pretty fun – I did a 5 mile time trial and averaged 22.75mph yesterday, but then wheel-sucked on the way back behind a guy who is faster than me, we didn’t go below 25 mph for much of it, I was just sat on the drops pottering along behind him while he did all the work, the lazy wheelsucker that I am.

Only people I know of who can hold above 20mph for a decent period of time (>2hrs) are typically 1st Cats and Elite.

As for sportives they aren’t a race, plenty of top riders cycle around them but for a nice day out and chat not to be on the rivet the whole time. Racing UK sportives is pretty sad really.

Counting actual averages rather than ‘riding averages’/’cheating averages’ can make a real difference to people’s speeds too.

On sundays 100k ride the in motion average and the overall average were 0.2mph different. We had to stop for a few junctions and traffic lights but otherwise rode the entire time until we got back. Same as every week.

Does everyone else stop for a pub lunch? Sounds like I’m missing out.

Only people I know of who can hold above 20mph for a decent period of time (>2hrs) are typically 1st Cats and Elite.

I certainly wouldn’t say that’s typical. As I said earlier, I’m a 3rd cat and did the Ride London 100 in 4:36, 22mph average speed.

One of my strengths is consistent speed over a long period – big changes in pace/gradient are difficult for me. Unfortunately, my strengths make me a good TTer but not a particularly good racer. I can’t sprint, so my only chance of points in crits is to break the bunch up and try and ride people off my wheel.

Those brutal attacks or bunch sprints that win most races aren’t for me!

100k ride the in motion average and the overall average were 0.2mph different. We had to stop for a few junctions and traffic lights but otherwise rode the entire time until we got back. Same as every week.

Depends where you go – if I head for the Peak District, I can ride like that, pretty much without stopping. If I head towards Nottingham for work, I can lose 3-5 minutes from an hour by stopping.

On a club ride I’d not expect stopping except maybe for a small number of traffic lights, but then they tailor their routes for that purpose.

Only people I know of who can hold above 20mph for a decent period of time (>2hrs) are typically 1st Cats and Elite.

Although obviously anyone who can sit in a bunch can do it while drafting.

The flat 20 mile commute this morning had me at 20.1MPH on the Garmin.

I have done 21+ average but that nearly killed me 🙄

As the year has gone on I have noticed my average increase by a good 2-3 MPH, but that could just be new light bike syndrome.

A couple of us did a 85 miler a few weeks ago and managed 17.5MPH, but we only managed 15MPH on the Stavely Sportive in July.

Thos hills don’t half knock the average. 🙁

These are all rolling average BTW (except the commute ones)

Only people I know of who can hold above 20mph for a decent period of time (>2hrs) are typically 1st Cats and Elite.

I certainly wouldn’t say that’s typical. As I said earlier, I’m a 3rd cat and did the Ride London 100 in 4:36, 22mph average speed.

I think there’s a confusion on here about time trialling versus bunch riding. Anyone can sit in a big group and average 20mph+, but how many of us can realistically do 20mph or more for (say) 5 hours?

Although looking at results, if you did more than 5 hours in a 100 mile time trial, you’d be well into the bottom 25% of the results, so there must be a fair few people out there with that fitness.

As I said earlier, I’m a 3rd cat and did the Ride London 100 in 4:36, 22mph average speed.

That presumably involved drafting at times. I was talking about solo rides.

Probably about 50% of it was in a bunch, and the final 25 miles was pretty much solo as I’d passed all the earlier waves of riders.

My solo ride times tend to be around evens, that’s what I aim for. Below 40 miles I’m generally there or there abouts, over 40 miles I’d be happy with 18/19 and I certainly wouldn’t expect to go lower than that up to the century.

The Ride London course was very flat compared to what I normally ride (Pennines, Trough of Bowland) so I’m quite sure I’d have stayed over 20mph riding it solo.

A lot of our club rides are in the hills and – since there is a wide range of climbing ability – they involve quite a few stops to let others catch up. I gather there are clubs out there who aren’t so caring and considerate; if you can’t stay on the back, tough 😯

No doubt this makes a difference to average speed; how can it not?

dragon – Member
Only people I know of who can hold above 20mph for a decent period of time (>2hrs) are typically 1st Cats and Elite.

As for sportives they aren’t a race, plenty of top riders cycle around them but for a nice day out and chat not to be on the rivet the whole time. Racing UK sportives is pretty sad really.

I’d disagree with both of these points really 😉

I’ve got a good 60 mile loop with 3,200ft of climbing and fastest i’ve done that in is just under 3 hours at 2:55.

My Ride London time was 4:09 (24mph av) and whilst that obviously involved group riding, myself and another club member managed to work together for the whole ride (towing a big group) hence the high speed. Conditions were also perfect and I think everybody did that ride quicker than expected. That was a sportive and people were not our for a jolly but racing it.

Obviously a sportive isn’t a race, but it’s against a clock so more like a time trail, whatever you say most people people will be out to ride as quick as they can.

I think a lot of people here would enjoy doing club TTs. They dont have to be up and down DCs if that is not your thing.
It is what got me into riding fast (well not fast just ok given my very average physiology)
You get to ride the same road on the same night as others with no help and you get a good idea of how you stack up. Someone times it properly too unlike strava. Plus you try much harder than normal with a number on your back.
Our local course is mostly small roads and its dead friendly. Loads of peole on normal road bikes, just turn up and ride. The only downside is that most will be beaten by a young girl who rides most weeks.

The only downside is that most will be beaten by a young girl who rides most weeks time trialling is shit

FTFY

I cannot think of a grimmer way to spend time on a bike. I’d rather commute through London – seriously.

Anyway, just planned a 20 mile route from my house, but it unfortunately has to involve some country lanes, one set of traffic lights, two motorway junctions four or five roundabouts and one hill in addition to some undulating terrain. About 9 or so miles is pancake flat though so that might help. I’m off to do it now, before lunch, I’ll let you know how I get on 🙂

Hmmm. I’d quite fancy a go at a TT and ironically, Reading Cycling Cub are running one which covers several of my local training routes tonight and comes through the next village! Will have to wait until I have a road bike though!!!!!!!

I do have the urge to try TTing again… My goal is to get 2nd Cat next season, and then will probably be a good time to make the switch – save me getting my head kicked in twice a week by E/1/2s! 😀

I can’t see how a TT is enjoyable either, but plenty of people like them and if you are Strava junkie then they are right up your street.

I can’t see how a TT is enjoyable either, but plenty of people like them and if you are Strava junkie then they are right up your street.

TT’s are not meant to be enjoyable, it’s not a sportive… but they are very addictive 🙂

I don’t see the correlation with Strava use though.

Each to their own, but the enjoyment comes from testing yourself and improving, also it can get competitive between guys of similar abilities, which a lot of people seem to like., but yeah it is not for everyone.
I like the people too. A lot of old school roadies chatting about bikes and eating cake.

I’m in Berkshire and I could go out from my front door and plot myself a pretty flat 20-30 miles avoiding the worst roads for headwinds, we have a few long flat drags where you can churn out a fair few miles at ~23mph to drag your rides Avg up and I reckon I could bump my Avg into the 19-20mph range by doing just that, but then I don’t think that ride would have much positive effect on my fitness, you need to stress your body regularly to feel any long term benefit IMO, this means climbing.

TT and Crit riders can’t train by simply doing endless flat loops can they?

TBH round my way the hills are not giant and a 30 miler might yield maybe 1000ft of climbing if you go looking for it, I’ve been tending to extend my routes to take in more ascents and I reckon that will probably reduce my average speeds in the short term, you do claw a bit back by tucking in and flying down a descent but then that’s just equilibrium.
longer term i’m hoping more climbing will help me build my strength, stamina and ability to recover and increase my overall Avg by a couple of Mph… maybe…

If your using Strava as a training tool rather than a virtual racing site there is more useful data than just average speed gathered from your rides. it has make me wonder about power meters, well at least it did until I saw the cost of one…

crosshair – Member
Hmmm. I’d quite fancy a go at a TT and ironically, Reading Cycling Cub are running one which covers several of my local training routes tonight and comes through the next village! Will have to wait until I have a road bike though!!!!!!!

Funny you should mention that I find a lot of the local TT segments pop up on on my rides, me and a mate rode past a TT being run in Mortimer a couple of weeks ago, looked like a mixed bag of posh TT bikes and aero helmets and folks on normal road bikes, Swallowfield Velo apparently run a club TT now and then as well (my mate is a member)…

Basically there’s loads of TTing around Reading / West Berks.
I’m Just not sure I fancy entering one right now, maybe next year… would they let me do it on my fixie? Hmmmm.

People commenting on The RideLondon: closed roads, good weather and a surprisingly high standard of riding contributed to some very high speeds. A mate did it in just under 4.5hrs and I think the fastest time was about 4.10.

I usually reckon on an average of between 16-18mph on solo road rides. Generally anyone claiming averages of over 20mph is either doing a one-way ride with a tailwind, on an extremely short ride, or lying. 😉

Racing is a whole different set of figures – even a 3rd & 4th Cat bunch can average 24mph, I’ve done E/1/2 races in the past which have averaged 27mph.

Quoting averages though is pretty meaningless, there are too many variables for it to cross reference easily – weather, road surface, group/solo, closed/open roads, terrain, even things like bike/gearing/tyres.

I usually reckon on an average of between 16-18mph on solo road rides. Generally anyone claiming averages of over 20mph is either doing a one-way ride with a tailwind, on an extremely short ride, or lying.

I know you’re joking, but seriously, there are thousands of people out there who can do 20mph and barely break a sweat, at least for an hour or two. Any rider with half-decent fitness can, you don’t need to be near Elite level.

Interesting.

So, apart from the obvious ‘pedal faster, use a higher gear’ policy, what’s the best way to up your speed?

Longer rides, tougher climbs, some special Lance ‘medicine’?

Slightly off topic, rigid mtb with semi slick tyres (Conti Double Fighters), 50psi – 20 miles/15.3mph/1.21.46/783ft. Not sure I’d be much faster on a road bike?

Quoting averages though is pretty meaningless, there are too many variables for it to cross reference easily

I think – and correct me if I’m wrong – this is why people have supported their figures with information about the profile, weather, type of bike, whether they were solo etc. 🙄

So, apart from the obvious ‘pedal faster, use a higher gear’ policy, what’s the best way to up your speed?

I find a combination of sweet sport riding (just below threshold) mixed with over/under drills makes the biggest difference. Racing is a good substitute for over/unders during the summer months.

[caveat]it does largely depend on what you want to achieve though, and what sort of distances you want to see the improvements at.[/caveat]

Crazy, just because you average 16-18 doesn’t make everybody else a liar, smiley or not. And as Shibboleth says most of us are qualifying our posts. I’m a recreational recent convert and not part of a club so its interesting to read. All my riding is solo or 2-up so nobody to compare too, and less drafting than a club/pack, having hooked up with a group on a recent sportif I was amazed how quickly you can go for so long with so little effort.

The last time I solo rode my local 30 mile loop (rolling but no big hills, wind but not a gale, mainly on hedge lined lanes and through villages) averaged 19.5, I do no structured training, and have no specific goals other than I enjoy coming home tired. I’d expect fast club guys to easily average 20+.

Sweetspot is def a winner. But a lot of things work for some but not others. It depends on your training history genetics and mental factors too. Once you get to a reasonable level you just have to try a few things to see what works. I think it is safe to say that you should be consistent and build up, but take adequate rest.
I have improved this year using a lot of threshold work for 45 mins, mixed with sweet spot and a few long hard rides. But I have a good base and a lot of people would want less threshold. Hard 5 min stuff works for some and can benefit longer rides but I don’t respond well it just hurts me. This is mainly for 25 mile tts although I have done 100 mile in less than 4 hours when I was weaker tha. I am now so you don’t always need loads of miles

I find sweetspot better for building base fitness – helps for bigger distances, but can be counterproductive for racing. I can see why it’s popular with TTers.

For racing there’s a need to really stretch that zone over threshold. This is what I’m working on at the moment as it’s essential in races to be able to stay longer at over-threshold pace. Horrible.

Yeah I just meant to improve av speed. All that surging and sprinting road racers do is totally beyond me.

And me! Hence why I’ll be forever a Cat 3… The lads I’m racing against are half my edge and 20kg lighter! Trying to hang on to their accelerations is pretty tough!

This is what I’m working on at the moment as it’s essential in races to be able to stay longer at over-threshold pace. Horrible.

Long-ish intervals at a decent percentage over threshold? Savage 🙂

the enjoyment comes from testing yourself and improving

Yes, but I can do the same on an MTB ride. My personal time trial is a lap of Cwmcarn. It’s a proper physical test on the way up and a white knuckle ride on the way down as I try to shave off the seconds. I know it so well I know my splits and the lines to take. I enjoy that far more than up and down the A48.

I reckon I could bump my Avg into the 19-20mph range by doing just that, but then I don’t think that ride would have much positive effect on my fitness

It would on your endurance at speed. Flat roads or steady climbs are great for threshold training. Of course you do need to go over that threshold for other sessions, as Shibboleth says – steep hills are good for this I find.

there are thousands of people out there who can do 20mph and barely break a sweat, at least for an hour or two

On the flat 20mph is indeed a pretty easy pace. However as mentioned above, an AVERAGE speed of 20mph is a totally different ball game. It only takes one long set of lights and a couple of right turns to completely knacker your average speed even on a flat ride.

Speaking of which, just got back from my 20 mile loop which came in slightly under due to me not starting in the right place, and I only managed 30.8kph. I was doing pretty well on the outbound leg but the return leg which is the flat bit is also down by the coast and not well protected so the headwind ruined my pace. And the last little hill which I always forget about. Also there’s more like 12 sets of lights counting the signal controlled motorway junctions and I hit most of them.

On the flat 20mph is indeed a pretty easy pace. However as mentioned above, an AVERAGE speed of 20mph is a totally different ball game. It only takes one long set of lights and a couple of right turns to completely knacker your average speed even on a flat ride.

To put it into perspective, and again referring to the Ride London Century, on the flats, I tried not to drop below 27mph. The average speed was dragged down by having to slow to a walking pace up Leith Hill and Box Hill due to the amount of traffic and people that were actually walking!

Christ knows how these southerners would cope in the Pennines! 😉

I don’t disagree cwmcarn is a great example. I think it would be cool to do off road tts. But obviously they are different and road tts are enjoyed by a lot of people so there must be something in it.

http://www.strava.com/activities/76123361

That’s my effort for today. 31.2km/h according to Strava derived from my Garmin, which itself recorded 30.8km/h…