Road discs. Wadaya reckon?

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  • Road discs. Wadaya reckon?
  • Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    I’d wait for the new wheelsize to be confirmed, tbh.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    I’d say hang fire on the whole road disc thing for another year or two, its clearly not an option yet for your race bike, as for winter trainer/commuter/sportive type bikes? Well they are here, and here to stay, but that simply means there’s some real bargains to be had for “traditional” rim braked road bikes.

    And how many choices are there really at the minute for road discs? SRAM sorted their hydraulic ones yet? Shimano have just got their first hydraulic road specific brake out, there’s always the BB7 but, isn’t that almost as “old hat” as carrying on with rim calipers?

    MrSalmon
    Member

    I think Specialized are doing a disc Tarmac, but otherwise the division seems to be pretty much as the OP said. UCI due to make a decision for 2016 (think I read that somewhere!) which might change things?

    Also the QR/thru-axle thing hasn’t really settled down yet.

    oldgit
    Member

    I’m at that point where I need a new race bike. I’m a big Giant fan and was going to buy a Defy SL ISP frame and use all my SRAM on it. However the new Defys are disc only. And looking at ranges it looks like the brands will build aero road bikes, classic rim braked road race bikes and slightly relax geo disc braked race bikes. Do you think the same? So I’m going for a TCR SL ISP, for pure racing and trips to the mountains.
    Not really sure what I’m asking here, perhaps folk know better as to what’s due out for 2015. I don’t have a race bike for 2015, so I’ll need to get a wiggle on in a few months before everything goes.

    discoduck
    Member

    I’m lurking around trying to find out what I can on this also,

    I think 2015 will see several different variations on a theme from several manufacturers before anything is standardised I.S. Wise, what you need to be careful of is getting caught out and becoming obsolete before the standards are adhered to.

    I quite liked the look of the GT Gravel bike that was on here recently.

    There will be some changes brought along with Road specific disks, bolt through hubs maybe and as mentioned wheel size.

    monkeyfudger
    Member

    Hang fire even if it’s just this winter. I’ve got major new bike envy but can’t even bring myself to buy new wheels (which I desperately need) until this mess is sorted. If I remember correctly it was about 6 months ago the UCI announced that they’d be making a decision ref discs (designer of the UK sport track stuff was looking into it all) in 6 months…

    As I see it everything will either change or just stay the same! Nightmare! For sure there’s going to be a cluster **** of new standards (as we’re already seeing!) unless the UCI gets a grip on it. (lulz, piss up/brewery etc)

    Mr Woppit
    Member

    In terms of stopping power, discs are complete overkill on a road bike IMO.

    However, what you WON’T have to do is change all the bloody brake blocks every five minutes in the winter…

    discoduck
    Member

    I agree, I too think its massive overkill on a road bike, it will make tyre choice in wet conditions interesting.

    oldgit
    Member

    Whilst I don’t really want road discs yet, if UCI say yes it’s inevitable that better kit will come out. If so I’d probably fancy them.
    One thing that would change for me, and that is I would buy better/lighter rims, now I build in the ‘wear out’ factor so go mid range.
    As I don’t have a frame to go racing on, but have groupset, wheels and finishing kit I might buy an aluminium race frame cheap to keep me going in 2015.

    Conqueror
    Member

    finding the Hayes CX disc brakes pretty sweet on my Cotic Escapade

    Setup with Tiagra STI levers and the wheels are Mavic Open Pro on XT hubs

    For a slightly heavier road/cx/utility build it means you can be confident about stopping if a nutcase in a car cuts you up

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    It’s not really about all out power though is it, as said, the limit of grip is easy to find. It’s about consistent, dependable power in all conditions without muching through rims.

    I must say I was swayed a little recently when my (normally superb) Dura Ace brakes decided in a recent torrential down pour that they’d just had enough, and were ceasing to work with immediate effect.

    I’d probably hold off buying a race bike right now – you’re not really gonna use it until next season anyway, and things will likely be clearer by then, one way or t’other.

    hoopyfrood
    Member

    I think Specialized are doing a disc Tarmac, but otherwise the division seems to be pretty much as the OP said.

    There’s a CAAD 10 disc coming too.

    monkeyfudger
    Member

    Ref rims, I feel the same. If I don’t have to worry about ’em wearing out I’d love some high end tubs.

    How about an Alu TCR? Always some for sale on eBay, from Hong Kong though if that bothers you? Or an Aethein, lovely looking bike.

    reggiegasket
    Member

    I run discs on both my roadies and they aren’t overkill. They are just better brakes. But I don’t race, just ride. I suspect that many of those saying they are overkill haven’t actually tried them on the road. But for racing there is clearly a lot more choice in rim brakes bikes/frames, and less demand for powerful braking due to the terrain (unless you are doing the TdF…) so that would still be my suggestion.

    now if Giant bring out a stealthy TCR disc…..

    bikebouy
    Member

    Can you get a good deal on a Propel frame ??

    Buy that 😀

    oldgit
    Member

    Bike out….yes I can, not sure about living with one? Good for my vets racing. Wouldn’t fancy one in the high mountains or perhaps I’m wrong.
    There also very cheap anyway,well cheaper than the TCR and Defy frames.
    Probably worth a visit though.

    bikebouy
    Member

    Think you might be surprised, I borrowed one for two weeks and it’s was ace.

    Can’t you borrow a shop bike for a ride, it may not be for you in the end but it’s well worth trying.

    Discs? I’d leave it for another two/three years when they’re much lighter and the UCI have tested them out. What’s wrong with swissstops?

    damascus
    Member

    I read this the other day and I want one. Disc road frame 800g. Disc forks sub 400g and kysyrium disc wheels? Why wait?

    http://road.cc/content/news/125253-rose-2015-x-lite-team-800g-carbon-frame-and-new-disc-equipped-xeon-launched

    Frankenstein
    Member

    Ruins the traditions and lines = fugly.

    Although I like the idea of brakes working well in the wet.

    I could lock up wheels in the rain with double pivot road brakes!

    Rather use a CX bike with 32mm tyres and disc brakes in winter.

    I honestly hope the fad fails. Sorry but it’s naff.

    Guess I’ll copy the rest of the sheep eventually 😳

    I like this CX (disc brake) bike:

    vs.

    Tradition 🙂

    oldgit
    Member

    Damascus the Giant disc frame is lighter than the race frame. Race being beefed up for race duties. A good example of why weight isn’t the be all and end all.

    corroded
    Member

    I’ve got cable discs on my road / gravel / touring / CX bike. For the riding I do (admittedly no road racing – yet) there is no downside. I’ve got more power, more dependability in all conditions, less wear and tear on rims (if I want sexy carbon rims, that’s now an option), I’m definitely carrying more speed into corners, braking later, and generally riding more exuberantly.
    When Shimano’s current Ultegra hydraulic / electronic groupset tech trickles down to 105 in a couple, I’ll be the market for an out-and-out racer with discs.

    Solo
    Member

    Haven’t read the entire thread. However, I’ve been riding an Uncle John with disc forks for a couple of years, as a commuter, when the opportunity presents itself.
    But, I am still waiting for real road frames for disc, to become available 😕
    So far all I find are CX frames, with typical CX geometry.
    I’ve nothing against CX, but I want a road frame with road geometry, for disc.
    So, now that shimano are on the verge of releasing a hydraulic brake STi lever, with cable operation for the mechs as apposed to Di2, IIRC.
    I’m hoping road frames for disc will become more widely available.
    So far, the best I think I’ve found is the Genesis.

    rj
    Member

    I’ve just bought my first road bike; Fuji Sportif 1.3. Clearly, not a race bike, more of a commuter/winter trainer. The disc brakes don’t lock up the wheels unless you want them to. Same as on the mountain bike, they just work consistently in all conditions.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    It’s getting harder to argue against discs TBH. For winter riding and dependable power every time regardless of the conditions, as long as the bike’s the right geometry then get the version with discs seems like a no brainer now.

    oldgit
    Member

    Just had a massive moment, can I a mere moral even race on discs yet….i don’t think I can? Another argument for a temporary frame.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    You’d have to ask, most races are run under BC regs, which are basically UCI regs, so technically not, however all sorts of stuff gets used in local races which isn’t UCI approved, so I dunno…

    monkeyfudger
    Member

    No. Old boy I ride with wanted to start racing again, he had to buy another frame even for a local one time 3/4.

    mattsccm
    Member

    Have no intention of going back. Noticeably stronger and that’s just the dry.
    Idea of them being overkill or not sensitive enough is from those who don’t use them. I first went disc on the rough stuff bike 6 yers ago and it soon became my road bike. Both are now disc. The idea of locking up is flawed. I do about 100 miles a week on gravel and have yet, in 6 years, to have problems with the front wheel doing that. The back can if you try hard.
    As for looks. Bikes have looked nasty for years. First the went all thick tubed when alloy was invented then they went black when carbon came in. Still bloody black. Now they are all red and black with tubes like something a 5 year old drew.
    You could hang on until things settle. Are you to wait 3 or 4 years though. Mine both have BB7’s. Fine. In a year or 2 they will be replaced by hydros though. Its called up grading just as people do with their MTB’s.

    esher shore
    Member

    rode this recently:

    then rode this:

    when I say rode, I mean a road ride about 14 mile loop with climbs and descents, and rough surfaces

    found the first bike with the mechanical discs much more controllable in terms of brake modulation, the TRP Spyre brakes were the most impressive mech. disc I’ve ridden yet and I’ve ridden all of them.

    found the second bike with the Shimano hydraulic discs actually a bit scary in terms of brake modulation:- on/off and lock up within a small amount of lever travel

    would have liked to spent more time looking at the brakes to see if the setup could be altered to soften the bite. bike only had 140mm rotors front and rear, so no chance of reducing rotor size to reduce leverage and improve modulation that way

    on both bikes, you could feel the effect of the disc brakes through the frame and fork, especially when braking hard

    in comparison, I run Ultegra calipers on my road bike and prefer to setup the brakes with lots of throw so I can have a wide modulation

    I’ve also owned many mountain bikes with hayes, shimano, avid, hope disc brakes 203mm down to 140mm rotors so lots of experience with different brake systems

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    there’s always the BB7 but, isn’t that almost as “old hat” as carrying on with rim calipers?

    old hat or tried and tested with (seemingly) a massive following of avid 🙂 fans?
    I like em, they are nice, I’m in no rush to move to hydro on my cx despite all my MTBs being hydro.

    I could lock up wheels in the rain with double pivot road brakes!

    after a second or so of getting nothing from your rain soaked rims/brakes.

    Frankenstein you appear to be comparing a £800 bike vs a well not sure can’t find a UK shop selling one but it’s $3,800 here hardly fair.

    but yeah if you wanna race looks like discs are out for the moment.

    velomanic
    Member

    I’m another road-disk convert. Like others have said above, it’s not about outright power but dependable, controllable and predictable braking in all conditions.

    I’ve also found that most road-disks critics I’ve spoked to have never actually used them!

    Solo
    Member

    Those giant bikes ^^ are proper ugly, regardless of which brakes are fitted to them. I agree with the comments about carbon frames too, ridiculous tubes and joints. The BB being just one huge carbon blob, nowadays.

    Premier Icon nemesis
    Subscriber

    oldgit – as much as I won’t be going back to rim brakes, given that you’re a roadie who actually races, I’d just hold onto your current race bike for now to see when the rules actually allow them (because it’d be quite annoying to turn up to a race to be told you can’t race because a blazer wants to show off how important he is) officially. You may also get a clearer picture of standards (eg will Shimano’s or some other standard take hold for road over PM?) though given that IS isn’t really a major issue to use on mtbs even now, I wouldn’t be too concerned about it.

    And as above, those who keep going on about caliper power as usual fail to understand. Power isn’t the benefit, it’s control and not having to wait a couple of wheel revolutions before getting that power when it’s properly wet.

    plus one
    Member

    Those giants look to have super slack head angles and huge head tubes ??

    Mountain bikes ?

    reggiegasket
    Member

    I’ve nothing against CX, but I want a road frame with road geometry, for disc.

    HongFu do one.

    I was entirely against the idea untill last month when I went out for a ride and it was propperly biblical rain not just the usual drizzle and wet roads. I can live with the split second of no braking untill the rims dry, but it was taking ages (if ever) to get any power because pretty much every road was under enough water to reach the rim constantly!

    Now seriously eyeing up a CAAD10 disk, although I’d rather buy a frame and build it up and there aren’t many (hong fu excepted) options yet.

    Having said that, I still think there’ll be a place for rim brakes on nice sunday club run bikes, just like a lot or racers counterintuatively have a nice bike for sundays and something more disposable for racing.

    Shimano have just got their first hydraulic road specific brake out,

    2nd? Isn’t there a Di2 ultegra (or CX700 or whatever they call it) hydraulic lever and now a 105 mechanical?

    found the second bike with the Shimano hydraulic discs actually a bit scary in terms of brake modulation:- on/off and lock up within a small amount of lever travel

    Idealy the lever shouldn’t move at all, the brake system (either cable or hydraulic) is just a force multiplier (you put in 1N of force, the rim calliper puts out 100N, or the disk calliper 500N), any distance traveled is just parts fo the system distorting and leads to arm fatigue. The advantage of hydraulic systems is that ratio is much more controllable, you can put in 1, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3N of force and the system will apply that exact ammount of braking, traditional brakes with squidgy rubber blocks, stretchy cables, deforming hoses and friction everywhere aren’t so good at that. Like MTB’s it’ll take some time to get used to not correlating leve movement with braking power, on my MTB the bite point is mm’s from the grip, on the Road currently it’s about 1″ and I can use all of that throw to lock it up.

    I reckon we’ll see aftermarket levers soon with much more bent levers to give room under the hood, but position the tip very close to the bars. Either that or the lever will dissapere to be left with a little stubby one. A bit like MTB’s did 10 years ago when every man and his dog was replacing these (which were exactly the same shape as the preceeding V-brake levers)

    with stuff like this

    Road levers are pretty much unchanged since the days when it took all 4 fingers to stop!

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    old hat or tried and tested with (seemingly) a massive following of avid fans?

    Well yes, tried and tested really, but this is really a “New Shiny toys” debate isn’t it, and given that we’re looking at Di2 with hydraulically actuated discs being a bit of a flagship product pitched at the new golfers, if you don’t already happen to have a disc-braked Road/CX/Touring bike I’d suggest holding off while new kit settles down…

    I get the impression that the big “Industry Conversation” hasn’t actually happened yet for Road bikes with discs, you know where delegates from Specialized, Trek, Giant, SRAM, Shimano, and a few others with enough turnover all sit down, agree the roadmap for the next five years and then inform the world that 650b is what they’ll be having from now on…

    It’s the odd little thing popping up from time to time, SRAM rushed their hydraulic road disc to market, Shimano announcing a new mounting standard the other week, their staggered release of Di2/Hydraulic disc and now 105 getting a Mechanical/hydraulic STi, Some manufacturers putting through axles on their frame/forks others sticking with QR… And the UCI haven’t yet gotten onboard (probably need further inducement?). it doesn’t feel quite coordinated yet, like there’s going to be a bit of a shake out ~2016ish and then we’ll be told exactly what the new collection of “Standards” and Competition rules will apply… Up to now it’s effectively been the porting of MTB standards to Road/CX bikes, I wouldn’t be shocked at them throwing a few new, “compatibility limiting” designs on the market in a year or two, Axle sizes being the obvious potential starting point… Betcha.

    Premier Icon nemesis
    Subscriber

    Thing is the shape of road levers needs to allow holding and braking from the hoods to be comfortable (as well as from the drops of course) to I’m not so sure that they will change much – at least not in the same way as on mtbs.

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