How many years, roughly, does it take for the quality of bike being used by the pro team to become, say, a typical £1500 bike bought by the likes of you and me?

And I know most of us ten to buy sportive bikes rather than racing ones, but I was meaning in terms of quality of build and of kit.

Sora probably being a £1500 bike. So by time sora was almost equal to what DA is at that time .. maybe 4 years would be my guess.

You’re kidding?! 15 year old Dura Ace is far better than Sora!

It never really does completely, to answer the OPs question. Technology trickles down, but take a £1500 bike you can’t say ‘this is what was raced in the Tour in x year’. closest you’d get IMO would be to go back to the late 90s before carbon was prolific.

Quality of kit doesn’t trickle down. If anything it gets worse!

Sora probably being a £1500 bike

Give over, a £1500 bike is likely to have 105, if not a smattering of Ultegra.

Must admit I’d be expecting 105 on a £1500 bike.

Reason I ask was I was just reading an article on the bikes being used at the Tour this year and wondered when that sort of bike will become “normal”.

There’s very little time for the actual bike to be available, I mean with deep enough pockets you can buy a Pinarello Dogma F8 as only just released to Team Sky.

For that bike (or equivalent) to be available for £1500 though, 5-8 years and even then you’d probably be looking at a couple of groupset tiers down or a cheaper set of wheels.

15 year old Dura Ace is far better than Sora!

Agreed. It’s far better quality. I’d rather buy good condition second hand Dura ace than any new 105 or even Ultegra. Sora is cheap, low quality stuff that is heavy or wears out quickly. Older Dura Ace, is looked after, willlast for ages.

Frames filter down over about five to ten years. Those TCR composites were top level pro carbon frames less than ten years ago. My ALUXX SL was raced as the last generation alloy.

Groupsets: Dura Ace never truly filters down, it is probably uneconomic anyway and ultegra\105 is where the money is. But Dura Ace research keeps improving Ultegra.

As I like to say when I take my race bike to work (and leave it in the office). If this was a car, it would be a F2, not quite F1 (as it has ultegra and clinchers). Professional level equipment has never been so accessible.

At the lower end materials tend to get swapped out so carbon mechs become metal etc. so those benefits take a long time to flow through. With the shift to carbon frames and then carbon becoming cheaper/more common the flow down is catching up.

Di2 was released in 2009 and to date has still only trickled down one step of the ladder to Ultegra.
It will probably make it to 105 at some point, but I can’t see it going to Tiagra or Sora.

Some technology does go right down the ladder, but it tends to be more an idea, rather than actually being the same material, etc.

it tends to be more an idea, rather than actually being the same material, etc.

Which was my point. Frame materials perhaps, but even then, although Rockhoppers are now made from M4 aluminium they sure aren’t the same as a 2001 S-Works frame.

Give over, a £1500 bike is likely to have 105, if not a smattering of Ultegra.

Unless you buy a Specialized. 😆

A sora equipped specialized with a carbon frame started the year at £1200 and was reduced to £1050, the £1500 bike has 105 on it

Sora is cheap, low quality stuff that is heavy or wears out quickly. Older Dura Ace, is looked after, willlast for ages.

You don’t half speak some bobbins.

Any kit lasts for ages if it is looked after. Sora last no less or longer than anything else. It is heavier for sure – no argument. But there is no ‘or wears out quickly’.

No need to ask for my credentials either on this. Save yourself the time.

Frames and forks defintiely trickle down, and quite quickly really, look at the carbon stuff you can pick up as a £1500 full bike now and compare to even 5-7 years ago.

Running gear definitely not though, I just picked up a 1995 steel trek as a runaround/town bike, it’s got a full 1995 spec RSX group on it, kinda Tiagra level back then I guess, definitely under 105 anyway, and its still slicker shifting and nicer than the Sora stuff on my 2012 Trek that cost about 700 quid.

I’d definitely pick older Dura Ace/Ultegra (maybe even 105) over current Sora and Tiagra.

Sora last no less or longer than anything else. It is heavier for sure – no argument. But there is no ‘or wears out quickly’

It really really does, the lower level kit is not as durable, in MTB or road groups, it wears out and gets sloppy a lot quicker.

There’s a lot more high milage top end stuff still going strong than high milage mid range a entry level, whether looked after or not.

As of this morning I have done 10,000 miles on my sora chainset (chainrings havent been changed) and shifters and they are still going strong. I am actually looking for an excuse to shift my 105 down to my commuter and upgrade to ultegra for my nice bike but the sora stuff still seems to be doing a turn.

Not doubting it’s heavy but 10,000 nasty london/surrey year round commuting miles says something about its durability.

t really really does, the lower level kit is not as durable, in MTB or road groups, it wears out and gets sloppy a lot quicker.

It really doesn’t.

thats doing well, my Tiagra rear mech is sloppy and starting to lose tension in the cage spring after ~3000 already 🙁

It really doesn’t.

OK, In my experience with my own kit, and from a lot of other peoples kit coming through the workshop, the stuff that seems to last longest is normally the mid-high end stuff, which leads me to form that opinion.

Your experience and opinion may differ of course.

We’ll agree to disagree. Internet truce.

I have found on both mtb and road, lower end kit like chainrings, chains cassettes etc last longer while bottom brackets and headsets at the lower end wear out quicker.

We’ll agree to disagree. Internet truce

where’s the fun in that?!

What i do find odd is the variation to be honest, I know some people who ride a lot of miles, and have practically no maintenance routine at all and have stuff last forever, and other people who seem to wear stuff out in no time at all despite there being no major difference in where they ride or their weight etc.

Mechanical sympathy comes into play a lot in those cases I think, cross-chaining, poor shifting under load etc.

There’s a notable difference in the quality of some bits, like jockey wheel bearings/bushes, and things like that between the cheaper and higher end stuff, but in other areas very little.

The most important bit that doesn’t filter down is the wheels and tubs – dugast and FMB are hoovered up by the pro teams and the likes of a campag shamal from the 90s would not get to a 1500 quid bike because the cost is achieved by cutting the quality of bearings and heavier rims to last longer, and machine laced vs hand built

The Dura Ace kit on my Madone just goes on and on. The Tiagra/105 on my Allez is shit. Been through 3 sets of brakes, front mechs seize. I’d say top end kit lasts far better.

More plastic parts used on lower end kit, which wears out faster.
Think more along the lines of shifters and mechs. With metal parts, the lower tier parts are just heavier with less complex forging.

Oddly, with road bikes we may soon see the bikes being walked up hills ridden by sportiveasshats being more advanced than those in the pro peloton. Discs, anyone?

You don’t half speak some bobbins.

Any kit lasts for ages if it is looked after. Sora last no less or longer than anything else. It is heavier for sure – no argument. But there is no ‘or wears out quickly’.

No need to ask for my credentials either on this. Save yourself the time.

😆 There are some very touhy people on this forum!

In the 25+ years of messing about with bikes, it’s been the higher end stuff that invariably lasts longer (or used to; some current stuff seems a bit flimsy really). I had someSora sti’s that lasted about 4 months before faling to bits. And Sora mecs wear out and get sloppy a lot more quickly than Dura Ace; my DA RD7700 is about 11 years old now, and showing no signs of sloppiness. show me a Sora (or equivalent) that’s lasted as wel. You’ll find plenty of older DA and Ultegra stuff for sale, for good reason. It lasts.

We’ll agree to disagree. Internet truce.

I think a lot of experienced mechanics etc will disagree with you. And I have no idea why I’d need to ask for your ‘credentials’. But enjoy your sora kit. 😉

“I think a lot of experienced mechanics etc will disagree with you”

around 2007/8 a mechanic reccomended i spend the extra on DA shifters as they have ti/metal internals and last ages. last week another mechanic asked me to come and see him if i ever change my groupset “that DA7800 lasts forever, ill happily take it off you”
it still shifts like it did when new and there is no slop or play

I would say, from a mtb perspective, 9sp xtr shifters are the nicest and most robust, dependable kit I’ve tried – by miles

If dura-ace is that far ahead as well, it’ll probably be worth the cash if you ride a lot and MAY never be matched by the cheaper stuff