caused my day rate (and price work rates) to remain static for about 5 years

Wages have also been static for long periods in sectors with a crippling shortage of workers. Makes you think. If only it really was simple.

Anyway, talking about understanding economics…

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/31/bad-economics-bbc-tory-austerity-uk-politics

Independent experts Andrew Dilnot and Michael Blastland state clearly that “too many” BBC journalists lack an understanding of “basic economics”. This particularly affects reporting on the central political issue of government debt, with “some journalists” apparently “instinctively” believing all debt to be inherently bad – and therefore failing to appreciate that the role of government debt is “contested and contestable”.

Economics coverage matters for all of us. A poorly informed public makes for bad government decisions and, as the IMF’s latest forecast reminds us, Britain’s economic underperformance is in no small part due to poor government choices.

The review singles out “household analogies” for the government debt, in particular, as “dangerous territory”. We’ve all seen journalists, not just on the BBC, compare government debt and household debt. The claim from the BBC’s former political editor Laura Kuenssberg, for instance, in a BBC News broadcast of November 2020, that the government’s “credit card” was “maxed out” was a classic of the type – and sparked the complaints by well-known economists that led to the review being commissioned.

Many EU workers came here with the idea of repatriating some of their earnings/benefits so the increased supply of labour didn’t ‘raise of the ship’ so much as the raised income was operating in the context of a foreign multiplier and surplus capacity in the UK. Some business models eg in agriculture have become reliant on cheap/disposable/deregulated labour and they profited from this. Owners of capital have a low MPC and are likely to have a higher marginal propensity to leak. So owners of capital will have benefited much more than Joe Public (unless they wanted a bit of cheap plastering or plumbing). Britain now is one of the most unequal countries in Europe.
One of the consequences of this is that a cheaper labour market reduces the need to invest in productive activities so much capital has gone into assets like the property market. Result? ‘Inefficiencies’ of labour and low pay produced by a failure to invest in new technology and eg inflated house prices.
I’m not opposing migration but rather deregulation.

Britain now is one of the most unequal countries in Europe.

Yes. It is. Shrinking our workforce won’t change this. Keeping the likes of Sunak, Truss, Kwarteng, Javid, Zahawi, Johnson, Osborne, Cameron, Hunt, Hammond, May out of Number 10/11 for a prolonged period of time might.

Oh dear, more tax discrepancies.

Who’d have thought it. A two-tier tax system to benefit rich people, which would have criminal implications for poor people. Nice to see the rule makers showing their hands so it’s beyond doubt.

A society run for the benefit of the richest, corporations and investors with high prices all round for the idiots.

At least we know for certain where we stand and how they would like to further shape the world we live in!

The shrinking labour force is being countered by new legislation to make sacking easier, restrict labour organisation, drive pensioners and the sick back into work, charter cities and keep thereby keep wages low.

Well, that’s partly my point. Restriction in real wages comes about because of the policy of government, economic stagnation, and exploitative employment practices. Reducing the workforce doesn’t prevent any of that. “Keeping out the foreign workers would have made us all better of if it wasn’t for the policy of government” is a bogus thing to imply. The workers were never the problem. Telling them they weren’t welcome has made things worse, not better. Look around you… this is what a shrinking workforce looks like. Just more self imposed stagnation, or in many areas of the UK real decline on top of decline.

It’s not about keeping workers out but rather terms of employment.
Anyone for a cheap carwash?

It’s not about keeping workers out but rather terms of employment.

Absolutely. And that’s another reason for a shrinking workforce. Poor terms of employment. Easier firing. Contracts without hours. People are leaving the workforce, and many are choosing to work elsewhere. Fewer workers is a genuine problem now and for years ahead. It is not to be celebrated.

Oh, you’ve added carwashes to your comment. I’ll leave you and Daz to pick at that peccadillo. He tends to pick that one out as well when talking about workers born elsewhere. But I’ll say this, people working in a car wash are not putting downward pressure on the wages of anyone else, it’s a canard when it comes to discussing who’s to blame for restricting real wage growth. “Sending them home” wouldn’t help other workers one tiny bit. Look to the government and employers for that.

Agreed but the provision of cheap goods and services enables employers to keep wages low. The need is to organise ALL labour.

The need is to organise ALL labour.

Very true for larger employers. For employees of smaller business what is really need is better regulation and higher minimums across the board. I agree with you that “deregulation” of business is the real problem, especially on employment rights, paired with increased and onerous regulations on workers and unions. Shifting the balance of rights and responsibilities in favour of employers rather than employees is at the heart of all this. And we know where Sunak stands on that.

A two-tier tax system to benefit rich people

Let’s not forget this little wheeze…

Updated: Just how much does non-dom tax status cost the Treasury? Estimate is £3bn a year but Labour demands that the PM – whose wife enjoyed it on her Infosys millions until last year – reveals the actual cost. Link here https://t.co/M4pybxGN0r

— Paul Lewis (@paullewismoney) January 31, 2023

To return to simple economics, raise the supply of labour by raising pay.
Higher paying economies are closely correlated to higher rates of investment and therefore growth. What growth has occured in the UK economy in recent times has been more to do with population growth than increases in productivity.

raise the supply of labour by raising pay

Where will the workers come from… and around in a circle we go. But yes, higher pay is needed in many sectors to stop more people leaving the workforce, never mind to fill the gaps. Some places have, and will continue to, close due to key gaps in staffing (a restaurant without a chef isn’t a restaurant no matter how many serving staff are available). Not an even geographic distribution of that problem of course. Higher pay isn’t enough in many areas, they can’t attract staff because the working age people with the right skills simply aren’t there.

What growth has occured in the UK economy in recent times has been more to do with population growth than increases in productivity.

Correct. And…? So…? The Tories think that they can just work fewer people harder and that equals more productivity. They are in for a shock as that approach is going to damage our workforce longer term, not enable it to deliver more.

Hopefully the next government can increase investment in key sectors… but they won’t be able to address all of them. Some of our industries won’t survive in the form we know them in after what has been done to them since 2008, and especially since 2016. They will just keep shrinking and relocating. Would you encourage your kids to work in the UK car industry…?

Let’s not forget this little wheeze

It’s beyond absurdity. If it was, let’s say, benefit fraud. It would be reported thrice, 24hrs, seven days a week. No one would be left in doubt!

It’s always duck season…

Or goat, dirty skunk and pidgeon.

Benefit fraud is a brilliant wheeze, it accounts for almost no wastage/loss in the grand scheme of things, percentage wise.

Should it be clamped down on? oh for sure!
Are there bigger fish to fry? oh for sure – but we’re gonna need a bigger boat!

It certainly riles up the frothers though.

So nice to be able to bandy this about. Corruption at the highest levels of government, tied at the hip to business.

What a shame nothing can ever ever be done about it.

Only set to get worser

The problem is the juxtaposition of the racist red wall Labour voters who voted tory to ‘keep the immigrants out’, and enabled the Tory Hard Brexit.
The next general election will be interesting for sure.

Let’s be honest, whatever you’re political stance is, The UK is paralised until we get a new government.

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-brexit/

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-brexit-did-not-speed-up-uk-vaccine-authorisation

TBH I’m sure I’ve heard Rishi spout the same bollocks,they should put some sort of fact check or not allow the news to broadcast it.

Still the rewards of Brexit are so obvious that old lie has to be regularly trotted out.

Let’s be honest, whatever you’re political stance is, The UK is paralised until we get a new government.

But you have to remember that this is deliberate. What we consider as paralysis is what these Ayn Rand worshipping nutjobs regard as their ‘small state’ dream. Where government doesn’t actually ‘do’ anything more than dish out contracts (usually owned by their mates) to private companies to provide services on its behalf. Once you realise that, then its no surprise that Sunak doesn’t even comment on strikes, let alone get the government actively involved in negotiations. As far as he’s concerned, that isn’t the business of government.

And as has been mentioned before, they don’t actually GAS about the health and education services being in crisis. Again… this is desirable. All ready to offer up privatisation as ‘the only solution’ and they never cared anyway as they all have private healthcare and their kids are all in private schools

Anyone for a cheap carwash?

Good example. When I asked the question on the brexit thread about whether it was better to have an army of cheap foreign workers doing hand washes or have automated car washes which employ engineers, designers, software developers and a whole supply chain of component fabricators lots of people on here thought the cheap foreign labour option was the way to go. And we wonder why this country has terrible productivity figures. 🤷‍♂️

And… of we go. You talk as if automated car washes weren’t already a thing and no more expensive to use than a getting your car washed by hand. Some people prefer one method over another. It’s always someone else’s job that is seen as lacking in value, isn’t it.

Some people prefer one method over another.

Especially when there is an endless supply of cheap labour.

racist red wall Labour voters

We dealt with this yesterday. Do try to keep up.

Especially when there is an endless supply of cheap labour.

Low wages aren’t the fault of the workers that receive them (and there isn’t an endless supply of workers) but of deliberately loose government regulation and poor employer practices. Stop. Blaming. The. Workers.

Stop. Blaming. The. Workers.

LOL! You come out with some little beauties Kelvin!

And you have the nerve to accuse me of trolling 😂

Stop. Blaming. The. Workers.

No one is blaming the workers. That doesn’t mean we should keep these jobs though. It’s a simple question of what is best for our economy and the country? Is it lots of cheap imported labour to wash cars and pick fruit and vegetables? Or is it a highly skilled productive workforce earning good wages?

It’s all about making “home grown” Labour cheaper now, sadly.

We need jobs. We need people doing these jobs to be treated and paid better. It’s not the fault of workers, wherever they were born, if working conditions and real wages are being made worse. This approach of telling workers who were born here that it is foreign born workers who are stealing their biscuits needs to stop. Your fellow workers are not the problem.

We need jobs.

UK unemployment is at its lowest level for 48 years, we need jobs but not ones which involve washing other people’s cars for them. There are plenty of industries and professions with skill shortages, including healthcare which is currently featuring highly in the news. Decent wages is one of the root causes of the problem.

If you want your car washed either take it down to the automated car wash, or bung your neighbour’s son a few quid, or get off your arse and wash it yourself.

Getting grown men to wash your car for you is not a sign of progress.

Is it lots of cheap imported labour to wash cars and pick fruit and vegetables? Or is it a highly skilled productive workforce earning good wages?

Who washes the cars and picks our food while we are all busy earning our good wages in supposedly more highly skilled jobs?

It’s not an either/or situation.

Who washes the cars and picks our food while we are all busy earning our good wages……

Who do you think was picking our food before 2004 and the arrival of cheap Eastern European labour?

The UK didn’t start growing fruit and vegetables post-2004.

The issue is low wages, not a labour shortage. Cough up and pay prices that cover decent wages.

If you want your car washed either take it down to the automated car wash, or bung your neighbour’s son a few quid, or get off your arse and wash it yourself.

Getting grown men to wash your car for you is not a sign of progress.

What about if I want to buy a coffee or a sandwich or some lunch out or what if I want to go to a supermarket and find product on the shelves?

By that logic I should just make my own coffee or lunch, maybe pop the cereals on the shelf myself before I can then buy some?

This is another Tory trick – convincing people that these supposedly “low skilled” jobs are not worth doing or that the people doing them are not worth the time of day or that if said people are on the breadline, they should all miraculously go out and get higher paid jobs – like the shelfstacker at Aldi or the kid down the car wash can “just” walk into a £200k a year job as a hedge fund manager…

They’re not low-skilled at all, they’re low PAID. There’s a big difference.

I mean, did you see Rishi Sunak trying to buy petrol?! He needed that supposedly low-skilled worker to tell him where to tap his **** debit card…

By that logic I should just make my own coffee or lunch, maybe pop the cereals on the shelf myself before I can then buy some?

Yeah that’s exactly the same.

Anyway…. this Rishi Sunak bloke… The one presently apparently PM

Well he doesn’t give a toss about any of this stuff. What he really cares about is clinging onto his position. And if he wasn’t worried about the flytipped sofa yesterday, he will be today

Johnsons ‘campaign’ for getting the keys to number ten back is most definitely underway. He’s been absolutely everywhere over the last couple of days, casting himself as the Saviour of Ukraine

Thank you @LinseyDavis for having me on @ABCNewsLive Prime to talk about the war in Ukraine. #ukrainemustwin pic.twitter.com/PKRdcGt5Sy

— Boris Johnson (@BorisJohnson) February 1, 2023

Thanks to @BretBaier for having me on @FoxNews tonight to talk about Ukraine #ukrainemustwin pic.twitter.com/zxZhdfGVos

— Boris Johnson (@BorisJohnson) January 31, 2023

And hate him or hate him, he’s famously quite good at campaigning, then absolutely rubbish at everything else. He’s definitely got Rishi in his sights, and we know he’s got the requisite support amongst the headbangers on his back benches and the membership

Rishi will be concentrating on this much more than strikes or car washes

Boris Johnson criticises Rishi Sunak decision not to give Ukraine fighter jets https://t.co/GU8dwMhWKl

— Indy Politics (@IndyPolitics) February 1, 2023

Boris Johnson criticises Rishi Sunak decision not to give Ukraine fighter jets

Did Prime Minister Boris Johnson give Ukraine fighter jets? Gold plated opportunist.

Sunak working very hard at PMQs on his plausible deniability about the behaviour of his cabinet members.

He’s on about Jeremy Corbyn again.

FFS! 🙄

It’s okay… two can play that game… question about the government paying disgraced PM Johnson’s legal bills… no answer of course…

Sunak sounds unbelievably weak now.
His only defence is “but labour”

What’s his position on car washes though? If he wants to grow the economy, provide well paid jobs and improve productivity it would be a good place to start.