Talk to me about the pros and cons please?

The background is that I recently bought a new skool LLS 29er gnarpoon. Its bloody fast. I ride in the Peak, so lots of rocks (although what I tend to think of as “friendly” ones – rounded boulders, not razor sharp like Welsh slate or jagged square edges like Lakes chunk). The 30mm wheelset I bought from a well known UK brand are not holding up very well, despite me using some massively heavy tyres (the rear is a 2.4 WTB Judge tough casing at 1.4+kg run at 25psi!), and being lighter (sub 63kg at the mo) than I’ve been in a long time, every ride I’m picking up dings. I’m not a slow rider by any means, but I do try to go fast by being smooth and active on the bike, not just point and pray.

The brand are sorting me out a rebuild, which is nice – as rim dinks can’t really be classed as anything other than rider error, so I’m not going to name and shame. Although you can probably guess…

They’ve suggested I use a rim protector (Rimpact/Cushcore/Huck Norris etc). Now I’m thinking this is treating the symptoms, not the problem. I ride the same trails on my 650b hardtail, a bit slower obviously, but at the same level of intensity, and without any rear suspension taking the edge off the hits. I feel the back rim fairly often, but its very rare I flat <<crosses fingers>> and I’ve not marked either rim (25mm DT XM421s) in the year I’ve been using them. That’s with standard 2.3 Maxxis Exo at 25F/28R psi.

So I’m asking what benefit does using a bit of pipe lagging bring? I’m already finding the 29er hard work to pedal – its blindingly good when the gradient steepens up, but it’s such hard work to wind up on flatter trails, so the last thing I want is to add more rotating weight. And if I’m going to add rotating weight, why not just rebuild with say a proven-to-be-bombproof EX511? Allowing for cost as well, there’s very little difference in price between all but the cheapest rim inserts and a DT rim. A few of the systems I could be quids in even if I paid someone else to do the rebuild for me!

Then there’s the changes to tyre behaviour from the reduced air volume – I’m not looking to be running lower pressure. I have to ride up before I can ride down and I have no desire to do that on draggy semi flat tyres. It’s not as if I’m pinch flatting much either. Or am I missing something?

If I could switch to MUCH lighter tyres to offset the weight gain of the insert, that would be a benefit – I’m looking at Maxxis DHF & DHR WTs as being around the kilo mark, which would take 400g off the back and 200g off the front in tyres, then add say 200g in inserts. Net gain of 400g which would be nice. (Although £50-60 a tyre is a bit steep!) Will they hold up or am I going to be in a world of puncture pain…?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

I ride in the Peak a lot and ride a FlareMAX (think your on a RocketMAX?). I consider myself to be averagely quick and reasonably aggressive. I weight 73kg in the buff and used to pinch Maxxis EXO’s on a regular basis with 30psi in them.

I like the DHR2 I’m using and couldn’t get them in EXO+ or DD without going to a gripper/draggier compound so chucked a RimPact in in September. I haven’t flatted since touch wood and I’m running slightly less pressure, 28psi, which feels better as well.

i recently did a new exo front, slashed a sidewall and had instant deflation.. at around 22 psi
at ~£50 a tyre this wasn’t the best day
at the same time i looked around and opted for ratbite, combination of cheap, light ish, easy to fit and offering the reduced volume features of cushcore etc..
not sure why.. but i have also started on higher pressures.. circa 27/30 front rear.. seems counterintuitive.. maybe i was just too low to start with…
anyway, having the inserts in and not noticing them is ok for me, if.. i lose a tyre im not going to be thrown off into a tree… that’s enough for me

i’ve always viewed rims as consumable items on a bike. which is why carbon rims confuse me somewhat

some last longer than others and i tend to buy those rims. or run a DH tyre, or both. and i dont even ride anywhere that rocky that much – lol! if i run a lighter tyre i find it squirms too much for my liking and i end up pumping it up harder to compensate. i suppose an insert may help but whats the point? it ends up teh same as a DH tyre.

I try and run about 30 ish psi in the rear in a dh tyre at 85KG in pants. unless i`m in wales.

I have 29mm id rims on an AM9. Not a particularly fast rider but not talented either, so I tend to ding rims on drainage bars. Fitted Rimpact inserts last year and using Spesh Hillbilly Grid front and Butcher Black Diamond rear, both 2.6 (i.e. 2.4-2.5 of anyone else’s tyres) and have had no problems since fitting despite running mid-low 20s pressure. Not really noticed any weight effects and they really support the tyres at the lower pressures. Very pleased with the combo. 72kg without kit (euww…).

I’ve had Cushcore and Rimpacts but now ride with neither. My Rimpacts seperated at the joint and when fed back to the manufacturer was told although they might have been faulty, they should be replaced every “season” anyway. They also did nothing against a square edged rock and were a massive pain in the ass when I split a bead and had to remove trailside and stuff in my rucksack covered in sealant.

Cushcore are a much more refined product and really lock your tyre in but I’d like to see anyone do a trailside repair with them in as they are tight ! and they still aren’t going to save a rim from a square edge i.m.h.o. I’m with Van Halen, swapping a rim if it gets damaged is the way to go.

To provide some context, I’m 92kg geared up and ride an AM9 relatively fast and aggressively.

I’ve had a rear Hucknorris and now run Rimpact front and back.
The Hucknorris helps a little bit with pinch flats and that’s it, while not even being great at it. The Rimpact on the other hand protects you tyre, your rim, makes the bike corner better and generally calms down the tyre behaviour. All this without much weight or cost.

I also used to waste time counting grams of tyres and rims until I got fed up with buying new tyres every 2 months and countless ruined rides. Now I run DD tyres with inserts. Uphill I needed 1 or 2 months to adjust my fitness, and that was it. I now use them on rides with 1000-1500m vertical no problem. Downhill, not only reliability improved exponentially, but the bike behaves a lot better, more stable, more traction and less fatigue.

Also, don’t forget an insert only protects the tyre from pinch flats, you’ll have punctures and slashes just as easily, so going for a lighter tyre might be a trap

I use the rimpacts. The original ones. I’m not one to dent rims and consider myself as a light rider, but I was doing a 3 day enduro on my HT on some rocky trails last year, so thought some comfort and protection required. This was on XM481 rims and I only used it on rear. Anyway, all good and no noticeable difference (although I’m crap at noticing minor changes!).
I’ve since put one in my fs rear and am using a light tyre. Michelin force AM comp. It’s only 790g. Has been fine, so that’s a bonus weight saving (insert is 100g). Although I wouldn’t risk it for Alpine holidays!

Eldest_oab destroyed three rear rims in quick succession, two on his new 170mm GnarduroExtreme bike. Additionally he was loosing places when racing – going from top 5 on stages to last not near last with punctures and worse.

We moved to tougher and DH tyres – still dented rims and had a few issues.

We got some Nukeproof inserts and it’s allowed a move back to slightly lighter tyres with no pinch punctures or issues since installation. He’s ridden Alps and Highlands at warp speed 9 for over a year without issue.

I’ve just helped him swap rear tyre from HansDamph Snakeskin to Butcher BlkDmd – the insert is a bit slack after a year so I’ve swapped for new one. The rim has a few minor dints and marks, insert more than a few fold marks. His tyres get worn edges, pulled knobs and all sorts of abuse marks – but between sealant, beefier tyres and inserts we don’t get flats.

He doesn’t run insert in the front, just a beefier tyre.

rim dinks can’t really be classed as anything other than rider error,

When you have a 1.4kg tyre and weigh 63kg (is that you Nairo?), I’d say the rim’s got to take some of the blame. Assuming you ride with even a hint of subtlety.

Are they Hunt wheels? A couple of friends found their “enduro” rims not really worthy of the name.

Anyway, yes I weigh 76kg and use a Rimpact in the rear, riding similar trails. It really does take the edge off nicely and noticeably reduces the occurrence of rim dingage.

HTH

The Rimpact inserts are pretty cheap, light, add some tyre stability, reduce the air volume in the tyre so add progression and act as a foam bump-stop.

If it’s cheap swapping to stronger rims then I’d probably do that anyway. But I have Rimpacts on both bikes, front and back, and can’t see a downside.

Sounds like you’ve had a very similar (identical?) experience to me. I too bought a new fast bike (Rocket Max….I’m guessing yours is too) and had an issue with the original, well known brand of wheels, put a couple of big old dents in the rims (how do you ding a front wheel?!) within a week, riding pretty mellow stuff. I was a bit surprised as being a long-term hardtail rider I’m pretty floaty, and the Flow ZTR rim on my BFe is getting on for 8 years old without issue.

Anyway, they sorted me out with a new set, which was really good of them actually, and I fitted Rimpact inserts into them. Had them about a year now and all seems good, done a few uplifts, a couple of weeks in BC and Whistler, plenty of typical miles. No dings, no problems. Wheels are a bit heavy, and I’ll probably stick some Flows on there at some point as they were so good on my other bike. For reference I’m about 80kg and run high 20s psi in the tyres.

Edit: Oh, and a mate of mine bought the same bike, at the same time, with the same wheels, and had a very similar experience.

I’d probably run a proper casing tyre before an insert to be honest, unless you’re burping in corners a lot. Dual ply casings (DD or DH) ride hugely better over an EXO Maxxis IMO too, and you get more compound choices.

Always seems a little silly to me to carry all that weight of an insert but still have fragile sidewalls to slice open, or to run silly low pressures in search of grip when you’ve not got sticky rubber or have a pingy-feeling exo casing…

I’d probably run a proper casing tyre before an insert to be honest

Read the OP again mate.

i’m on a LT 29er, DT Swiss XM481 rim, EXO+ Maxxis DHR2 tyre and Nukeproof ARD insert, 22/23 psi or so. I weigh about 80kg kitted up. don’t ride lots of super rocky stuff. i have no issues smashing rims, though i’m not known for it. i have always said i’ll go to an EX511 rim when I break an XM481. still hasn’t happened.

i haven’t tried the rims you have been using, but it sounds like they might be the problem here.

I use it on my gravel bike’s rear rim, a 30mm backing rod in a 35mm tyre.

Not sure how much use it is, I suspect it does more for the tyre, blunting the rim a bit so it doesn’t pinch flat the sidewalls.

If you want to protect the rim you’d need something like procore which adds a ~25mm roadie tubular to the rim so you’d really struggle to hit it hard enough.

I don’t have it in my 29er hardtail, but then I don’t live anywhere really rocky. Used top live in Sheffield and just sort of had to accept that rear rims got dinked. Perhapse rebuild the rear wheel with a DT rim if you’ve had better luck with those.

how do you ding a front wheel?!

I’m not sure, but I’ve done it, with a Rockstop in there.

Was descending in the North Downs (flinty) got a slash in the Thunderburt and deflated immediately. There’s a ding in my rim now. It’s an on-one big dog, with the wheels they got cheap off superstar, so I’m not massively upset about it.

For reference, I’m heavy, and a hooligan, so it’s probably my fault for riding a gravel-ish tyre a bit too hard… Was fun while it lasted.

It was a really weird ding, actually. A huge dint on the top of the rim, next to the spokes. Cheese rims.

I’d probably run a proper casing tyre before an insert to be honest

Read the OP again mate.

Sorry for not reading all 7 paragraphs, I went off the question posed in the first line;

Talk to me about the pros and cons please?

Having now read it all I would say it’s sh*t rims.

The 30mm wheelset I bought from a well known UK brand are not holding up very well

Hope? Kinda known for soft rims.

I’d save the cash on inserts and get a better rim built up.

Tried the Planet X one in the rear wheel of my full suss, Hunt Trail Wide rims and SE4 tyre. Didn’t really like the reduced air volume, despite lower air pressure it seemed to make the rear end feel more sensitive to small bumps, like the tyre pressure was ramping up too quickly, hard to describe but for where I ride it didn’t feel great. Also tried one cut in half and preferred that. Recently took it out and unless I go to the Alps or maybe BPW I don’t think I’ll bother again. Still have an unused one and a valve if anyone wants to experiment.

I’m running Rimpacts on the rear of both bikes, using EXO+ casing DHR2’s, front and back.
As a 115kgs monster, i thought it prudent to try them at least.

Ive felt them working on a number of occasions, saving the rims from possible damage. I’m not running very low pressures, 30mm carbon rims at about 25psi F+B.

I have also had a small hole in the sidewall of the tyre (front a flint) and the fact that the Rimpact was in there meant it did not seal with sealant. As i was fairly close to home, i just rode slowly back on the rimpact and tyre alone, as a trail side fix would involve a slime covered foam ring and alot of faff, as they were tricky to get into the tyre in the first place.

So, in all, worth the (small) cost and negligable weight gain to protect my rims, and they def help the tyre to be less squirmy at 25psi.

I use ratbites. The new design is so easy to fit

Now I run DD tyres with inserts.

Only needed on the rear, but anyone riding harder than light trail stuff should have this setup by default.

Anyone run Cushcore and Rimpact for comparison? Interested to know if the latter is as good for damping, ta.

“Anyone run Cushcore and Rimpact for comparison? Interested to know if the latter is as good for damping, ta.“

I haven’t tried Cushcore but I doubt my Rimpact inserts have anywhere near as much damping – they’re a fairly hard but low density foam. From what I’ve seen of Cushcore it’s higher density and softer with slower rebound.

I’m running Panzer rim protection

Recommendation from my mate in Spain who has a fleet of bikes hire bikes and his own bikes too. He has tried most and has settled on these.