riding past trail diversions !

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  • riding past trail diversions !
  • Premier Icon Mr Agreeable
    Subscriber

    Block the trail with logs and brash, as well as taping it?

    Premier Icon steveh
    Subscriber

    Unfortunately I don't think any signs will do it. Could you put lots of branches or something over the trail? I think you've got to make it more hassle to ride than it's worth. I know this isn't how it should be but it's all I think will work.

    Premier Icon Pook
    Subscriber

    Maybe this explanation on a notice on the closed trail.

    Premier Icon mtbfix
    Subscriber

    Nothing will stop the thick heads working their way onto the trail to ride it as they regard it as their 'right'. Most effective, if prohibitively expensive, way to do this that I have seen was at Swinley when they were filming bits for the Potter film. They had secirity guys on access points.

    barca2
    Member

    "STOP RIDING THIS SECTION OF F*****G TRAIL WHILE WE FIX IT!"

    or

    "FISHING WIRE AT NECK HEIGHT BEYOND THIS POINT…..please follow the diversion"

    Premier Icon bangin on
    Subscriber

    Yep I likey…………………I'll pass both of those suggestions to the Rangers 😈

    MtbCol
    Member

    Happens all the time with the trail building in Dalby.
    You'll never ever get a complete closure as some total knob will always ride down the closed route – as has been said before, they think it's their God given right even though they've had sweet **** all to do with the building.

    You even get it on under construction sections which obviously are nowhere near being finished and don't actually go anywhere.

    I used to take great pleasure, when we were building Crosscliffe section in Dalby, when asked where the trail went, answering with "back the way you've come, didn't you see the **** signs!?!" I doubt they'd learn from it though…

    Premier Icon bangin on
    Subscriber

    I'm having a real problem up here at Drumlanrig with riders ignoring the diversion signs and tape put out by the ranger service.

    I've been rebuilding some of the wetter parts of the red and black trails and the trail bed really needs time to settle and dry out before being ridden.

    It's really quite simple, if you dig a big lump of stoney but wet mineral soil out of the ground and lay it on the trail, even once whacked in, it's still very soft. The moisture content needs to seep out and settle all the fine wee dusty stones into a water proof solid mass. Ride across the top with a skinny wheeled vehicle and you sink in and move all the structural bigger stones to the side and create a groove which runs counter to the drain line. This traps water and lengthens the process of drying but will also trap water every time it rains and more importantly because the big stones are moved to the side it will weaken the trail for ever.

    OK so last week I dug two sections of new trail into a piece of the network that everybody moans is wet and a bit muddy. We closed the trail. Over the weekend at least 20 riders have ignored the diversion and I had to spend a couple of hours re shaping and whacking the trail into a good shape, or as said above it'll be weak for ever.

    The ignored sign is pretty clear to me; it says "MTB Trail Diversion " followed by a big directional arrow, under which is written " This section of trail is currently under going re-construction work. Please follow this diversion until further notice." then the rangers service phone number etc.

    There is also red and white tape across the trail.

    OK singletrack massive, I'd like suggestions of what the sign SHOULD say to keep the selfish c0cks off the trail so that I don't have to keep going back time and time again fixing work in the pishing rain that I've already done.

    Honestly, what can we write that will stop riders just riding past diversions and creating more work and hassle for the people who are trying to sort the stuff out that they moan about like wet trail FFS!!!.

    Why do mountain bikers think they can ignore signs any how?

    Why do mountain bikers ignore signs?

    We've been doing it on all ROW for years.

    Premier Icon ChrisL
    Subscriber

    Some people seem to assume that because the start of a trail looks finished to their eyes, then it is finished and the rest of the trail will be finished too. You see it a lot a Glentress. If people see a trail where the hardcore is down they'll assume it's good to ride even if it's blocked off. Perhaps they think it's not open yet merely because the waymarking signs haven't been put up yet or something. They don't understand that they will damage the trail and delay its opening for everyone.

    There seems to be a common assumption that for some reason trail closures only apply to "other people", too. After all, if it's just them who sneaks by and rides the trail, how much damage can one rider/group do?

    Once people have started to ignore trail closure signs it can become a habit so they'll ignore them even if the trails beyond are obviously incomplete. Then they get to feel special because they've ridden something before everyone else has had a chance to.

    Ignoring diversions is possibly compounded because while some trails are closed for matinenance, others are closed due to forestry operations. In the latter case there is often implicit and sometimes explicit guidance from officials that it's OK to ignore the diversions at weekends. Again that could lead to the ignoring of diversion signs being habitual.

    I can't think of what you can do with signage beyond what you're currently doing without being deliberately rude and/or confrontational. Something like "Don't be SELFISH – follow the diversions!", with SELFISH in really big letters? I don't know how well MTBers will respond to moral pressure, though!

    Edit: ScienceOfficer made a good point while I was typing my comment. Lots of MTBers (on here anyway) seem to regard riding on footpaths and the like as something to be proud of. Ignoring signage is a way of sticking it to the man!

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    Caltrops or punji sticks

    2tyred
    Member

    A bluntly-worded sign ("DON'T RIDE THIS OR YOU'LL WRECK IT, YOU DICK") with a log thick enough to catch chainrings on. Anyone going past that isn't going to be deterred by anything.

    Or maybe a more detailed sign with the full explanation like you've given above? Some people are simply ignorant (in the not knowing sense, rather than the rude sense).

    Do you put anything on your trailmaps? Or are the people doing this unlikely to be stumping up for one anyway?

    FWIW I think you do outstanding work Rik, can't wait to get back down there for my first visit of the year!

    ojom
    Member

    Just put:

    'Don't be a d1ckhead, or you will be banned fae Riks Bike Shed.'

    I am registered with PRS so feel free to pay me any royalties that will gush forth from the use of this 'ditty'.

    In all seriousness, just be frank.

    Premier Icon ChrisL
    Subscriber

    I like TJ's punji sticks suggestion. πŸ™‚ How about a hidden pit full of venomous snakes? Any bikes found within it could be sold to help fund the trails…

    Kit
    Member

    Warning: Deep Excavation! Do Not Enter!

    or

    Warning: Furious LBS owner! Do Not Enter!

    +

    Diversions until further notice

    You know, like when you're supposed to shout 'Fire' instead of 'Police' because it gets more attention. Saying that a 'trail' or 'path' is simply closed for maintenance won't put people off, but perhaps suggesting that their lives are in peril by crossing the tape may make them think otherwise…

    What Science officer said.

    "It's really quite simple"

    It took a paragraph for you to explain it, so not simple really.

    Premier Icon bangin on
    Subscriber

    I did put a longer term closure on the maps I put out ( as they get printed in the shop it's easy) but that didn't make much difference. Anybody coming into the the shop gets told straight up not to ride the closed bits (and why) so I'd be suprised if it's them..

    I do think that it's an endimic problem of attitude tho within the mtb community, I know Paul Masson oop north gets just as hacked off as me and Andy and Tally at the Stanes get it too.

    Peer pressure ?? If you see it happening give a shout??

    It really does put us even further down the priority list with land owners and managers; it all gets noticed, just like the freeloaders parking outside the estate and ridding in. Then when I go looking to justify new trail all I get back from the estate is WHY SHOULD WE when it just brings us hassle/expense/no income/extra work etc….

    The estate has to be completely polite and reasonable in all it's signage as you can imagine, so strongly worded is about as far as it'll ever get unfortunately.

    Premier Icon bangin on
    Subscriber

    Aye, a paragraph – it's no' exactly rocket surgery!!

    Diversion ->
    For trail maintenance

    ie you shouldn't ride it

    What could be more simple than following an arrow

    29erKeith
    Member

    I have to admit to riding past one or two signs in the past at different trail centres 😳

    but 9 times out of ten they're there because of forestry operation, which aren't running at Weekends and the trail is 100% ridable and passable
    never ridden on one which was having actual trail maintenance as far as I know.

    If I knew why it was shut as in your example I wouldn't ride it.
    each time I've come across one it's been a sign saying closed. end of. no explanation. often with tape which has already broken.
    Not an excuse I know.

    I think a lot of people would accept it they know it was for actual trail maintenance.

    So a clear sign explaining would do it for me (like you've already done)
    and few logs would stop the majority of what's left

    a lot of people do appreciate the effort that guys like yourself put in

    but sadly you'll never stop everybody

    stumpy01
    Member

    When the red was being made more sustainable, there was an explanation along the lines of:

    "trail closed until XXXX date. This is to allow the new trail to harden & become durable enough for years of mountain biking to come. If the trail is used before XXXX date, the surface will be damaged & will last months, not years, so please don't use.
    There is a diversion in place, please use this instead."

    I don't know if it worked for everyone but it certainly worked for us. If people see a diversion but don't know why it is there, then the chances are they will just ignore it. I assume most people think it's Health & Safety rather than for the good of the trail.
    A brief explanation as to why the diversion is necessary may make more people heed it.

    Premier Icon stevomcd
    Subscriber

    I'd think about putting dates/times on the signs as well. As ChrisL says, a lot of people (sometimes correctly) assume that diversions can be ignored at certain times (e.g. no forestry work at weekends) or they hear some spraff on an internet forum about how the trail work is actually finished and just needs signage/tidying up/etc.

    A little bit of detail on why the trail is shut, at what times/days it's shut and when it will re-open might help.

    EDIT: Looks like stumpy beat me to it!

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    Agree with Mr Agreeable, no matter how many signs you put up, people will ride it, because they think it won't matter if just they ride it this once or it doesn't apply to them. Put some big obsticals down across the trail to make it a pointless ride (NB whilst considering health and safety issues of course πŸ˜‰ ).

    Maybe really mess up the entrance?

    Leave the first 100m looking completely impassible until the whole lot is ready?

    Still leaves the world full of selfish twunts, but at least they not riding the trail?

    Premier Icon Trekster
    Subscriber

    Rik
    Could try a few fence posts, field gates and some barbed wire 😈 at entrance to trail section being worked on, might look a bit more purposefull than red tape. Extra work yes but given the construction rules trailbuilders are having to work under now something along the lines of what builders/construction industry do might have to be adopted.

    BIG board @ trailhead, target cars as they come into car park πŸ˜‰ with a flyer???

    Premier Icon I_did_dab
    Subscriber

    Might work?

    Premier Icon bangin on
    Subscriber

    All good suggestions, keep them coming and I'll pass them all on to the rangers.

    Premier Icon bangin on
    Subscriber

    The Halo Trust who de-mine most of the world are in the next village, I wonder if I could ask some of their experts to knock me up some rim (but not ankle) destroying devices 😈 ! That would work and I might sell a few more wheels πŸ˜€

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    I think stumpy has the best way – folk are seeing what looks like an intact trail and thinking its closed mon / fri 9-5 for the workers not until it settles in.

    Lots of hawthorn trimmings?

    Evil, bot potentially genius as it would rot away before the trail opens?

    Mountain bikers in ignorant ****'s shocker!!

    You rant about them not paying to park, you rant about them wrecking your trails, you rant about everything to do with bikers. Have you not worked this out yet?

    Bikers dont really give two figs about other people or trail users.

    Personally, i think your rant is more than valid and as suggested you should make the entrance a PITA to get through. Maybe a sign saying there is barbed wire laid across the trail even if there isnt. Hopefully, those who would normally ignore you will finally think again.

    Premier Icon bangin on
    Subscriber

    Hey Hobo, all this trail work is just for you my friend; so that you can come here and ride without complaining quite so much about the roots and muddy bits πŸ˜‰ .

    Justified rants only from this quarter, I'm just sick of doing twice what I've already finished. If the entry fee's too much, it's a no brainer, go use a cheaper trail and we'll all be happy.

    coffeeking
    Member

    Things I hate about trail diversions….

    The one time you've driven miles to a trail, it's diverted and your favourite bit is not part of it. The urge to ignore the diversion is high, but I resist. But personally the lack of information is about the most frustrating side of it – it's diverted – why, what's being done? How long will it take? When can I ride that trail again? IS the diversion longer/massively shorter than the original route? Don't treat me like an idiot by just saying "diverted" – give me some info and get me on side.

    Premier Icon bangin on
    Subscriber

    Fair point well made, for the future expect the highest quality diversionary details at Drumlanrig. That's the whole point of this thread….. not ranting (much), just looking for feedback so we can get it right next time. Cheers!

    neninja
    Member

    I don't supposed there's any recently cut hawthorn branches or wild rose lying around that could be placed across the trail?

    That would put off all but the most determined I would imagine.

    A quick sweep on completion and sorted.

    Premier Icon ChrisL
    Subscriber

    Are trail diversions posted on the Drumlanrig web site? The 7Stanes do this, IIRC and at least gives people travelling a long distance for a ride some warning if trails are going to be closed.

    How many of us check such things before heading off to a trail centre is another matter. πŸ™‚ But it's probably the best the trail centres can do.

    Premier Icon Del
    Subscriber

    forestry round our way have put diversion signs in place after trees have come down on a trail, and those diversions, or rather section closures, have stayed in place for months, as have the obstructions. now i know there maybe more to it than just clearing one or two trees, with other around perhaps being unstable, but if only they knew someone with a chainsaw…. πŸ™„

    putting dates on closures and reasons for it would help a lot i think. if you can say 'allowing to settle for 2 weeks/4 weeks/6 weeks and open on the xth' it would make a difference i reckon. just out of interest, how long does the base layer need to settle before the top goes on, and how long does that layer need, roughly?

    Premier Icon bangin on
    Subscriber

    at Drumlanrig we don't put a top layer on, it's pretty much all built with what comes out of the ground, hence the ridden in feel. But to answer your how long question………it depends…..on how wet, what the weather's doing, what kind of material etc. Most of the work I've done here is instantly rideable due to the material being just the dogs for trail building, stoney till.

    The red route detour probably only needs a week to 'go off' hence my reluctance to spend ages pulling brash etc over the trail.

    The black climb is clay and that will never 'go off' it's just nasty and willl need some imported stone from somewhere else on the estate. That hopefully will happen next tuesday as it's the club trail digging night (first tue every month). Bring a wheel barrow if you wan't to come and lend send muscle.

    richc
    Member

    a sign saying what you have just said, plus a load of hawthorn cuttings for 1st 30m or so should do it.

    +1 for a plausible explanation.

    I once ignored a health 'n safety closure on the North Face trail at Grizedale. All they'd done was fell a few nearby trees, no workmen about and no machinery, just a few twigs across the trail.

    OT perhaps but down here in Dorset, a local BW was closed for 18 months because the village was being connected to the mains sewer. Total length of time the BW was dug up for pipe-laying – 2 days.

    simonralli2
    Member

    Could you not lay down a load of barbed wired fencing flat on the trail at regular intervals plus give a warning that it is there. If there were sections of say 10m, every hundred metres or so, it would be the MTB equivalent of speed bumps?

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