I’ll ride footpaths quite happily, but try and avoid obvious confrontation opportunities – the one I ride that can be popular with families I’ll ride really early in the morning.

If random “redsocks” have a go, I’ll dismiss them with a cheery wave.

BUT if the landowner asks me to do one, I’ll take it on the chin and comply.

I must admit to use the line ‘actually I ride where I please and I don’t give a **** about anyone except myself’ when told not to ride bridleways (and in one case a byway)

I used to live in Sheffield and used to ride a few cheeky footpaths around Wyming Brook and still do when I pop up to see family. The last few times I have been stopped by an old chap who told me that I shouldn’t be on the path because it is an area of scientific interest because of wildlife….all while his dog was off the lead, running around through the bushes where said wildlife is likely to live!

I just pretend to turn around and as soon as he is out of sight, go back to what I was doing. I can’t normally be bothered getting into it.

These laws are a symbol of a landed gentry that hasn’t been fully democratised yet. It is time the British government took the rights of English countryside users seriously. I actually think it’s a symbol of democracy which may not change whilst Dave Common Man or anyone like him and his cronies are still in power.

I don’t really agree with this. Most of the ‘hassle’ MTBers get when riding on footpaths comes from other ‘commoners’ using the footpath on foot who feel you are encroaching ‘their’ turf – even though it’s not theirs, it’s the landowners.

That said, I do struggle sometimes to understand the motivation for some landowners to get uppity about people being on a bike rather than on foot. Assuming you are still on a right of way and are not causing any damage (that would not be caused if you were on foot) I can’t really see the problem from their perspective. If I was a land owner with a footpath right of way I’d be tempted to put up a sign along the lines of “mountain capable of manhandling their bikers over this stile welcome”.

I had a very interesting conversation in the Peaks a while back with some slightly angry walkers, I mentioned the kinder trespasses and by the end of it they understood where i was coming from. They didn’t agree with me but saw my point and were happy for me to go on my way.

I was extremely polite, which reduced the confrontation but interesting to meet someone who would debate the point.

I do struggle sometimes to understand the motivation for some landowners to get uppity about people being on a bike rather than on foot.

If they allow bikes across unchallenged for long enough, they might end up with a bridleway designation. I can understand why they might not want that, tbf.

That’s a common misconception – only unchallenged use by horses can result in that.

The only times I’ve ever had an issue when on footpaths I have been challenged by southerners visiting, is the footpath issue bigger down south than up north? got stopped in the peaks, guy from London area visiting. stopped in lakes, guy from Kent.
never get stopped by locals.

got stopped in the peaks, guy from London area visiting. stopped in lakes, guy from Kent.

In that case, just say you have the landowner’s permission – they won’t know any better 🙂

genuine question – if I want to use a small length of footpath while on a ride presumably I can just get off and wheel bike along it? If someone challenged me when riding said footpath I could get off and continue on foot no?

In that case, just say you have the landowner’s permission – they won’t know any better

But so often walkers have the wrong end of the stick on this.

I run a mountain bike activity at school. In the early weeks of the term we do some skills sessions on the school’s land including an introduction to singletrack riding. We do this on a lovely footpath that skirts around the perimeter of the school, but on our land. Despite the kids riding past walkers very steadily (under my supervision) we do still get some comments. It simply does not compute for them that we have the permission of the land owner so we are perfectly entitled to ride on the path. They see it that they are entitled to not have to share it with bikes – i.e. it’s ‘their’ rights not the rights of access and provision. A footpath also being a tractor track used by the land owner for his tractor (as we do on the school grounds too) they can understand but the landowner legitimately using the path for moutain bikes seems to freak them out.

Mega; yes you can.

My own experiences have been largely the same as others, I’ve had maybe 2-3 confrontations in nearly 20 years of biking. Most folk either a) couldn’t give a fig, as they’re just enjoying the countryside like we are. Or b) don’t know the rules and assume you’ve every right to be there

I use the “are you the landlord or his/her agent” approach, when the answer is always “no” I follow with ” then ere done here” and go on my way.

Yes convert, agreed that lots of walkers equate their access rights with some form of exclusivity, and also that they will accept motor vehicles but not bikes despite the former being more obtrusive!

Presumably this is because they are drivers themselves, but not cyclists – it’s the old “I don’t do this so I don’t want anyone else to either” attitude which is at the root of most access issues in England and Wales.

genuine question – if I want to use a small length of footpath while on a ride presumably I can just get off and wheel bike along it? If someone challenged me when riding said footpath I could get off and continue on foot no?

Mega; yes you can.

Technically you can’t actually;

“You have the right to walk along a footpath with a normal accompaniment”

Bikes are not considered a normal accompaniment to walking.

In real life though most people are not going to worry.

Round these parts (Neath, Swansea, Port Talbot) I’ve found walkers very accommodating. My riding acquaintance knocked a lady off her feet on a footpath on Kilvey hill recently and her and her boyfriend found it hilarious. They were pretty stoned though…

we do it lots, usually after 8pm on a weekday evening, often it’s pouring with rain, dark and cold. Strangely, we don’t have any problem with walkers…

Bikes are not considered a normal accompaniment to walking.

I don’t think that’s right. I can’t find the reference right now but I recall reading about this a while back. There was some case law where a judge had ruled that a bike was a normal accompaniment (this was a case where someone was run over on a pedestrian crossing whilst wheeling their bike, but apparently the principle would stand on a footpath too). Additionally, if you shouldered your bike so that it wasn’t even touching the floor then I suspect it would just be considered luggage…

rentachimp – Member

Round these parts (Neath, Swansea, Port Talbot) I’ve found walkers very accommodating. My riding acquaintance knocked a lady off her feet on a footpath on Kilvey hill recently and her and her boyfriend found it hilarious. They were pretty stoned though…

There aren’t many ladies living near Kilvey! 😆 I’d also suspect that unless you were on Morris Lane then you weren’t on a footpath at all?

Kilvey is an interesting example in this discussion. I can ride up there easily for a couple of hours without repeating a track but until two years ago there wasn’t a single RoW. There is now one single footpath, recently designated, that had previously been used by any traffic to access the hill ie it’s an old farm track. A local pressure group decided they needed some FPs up there to protect their rights, but ignored the fact that other users needed access as well.

Basically the walkers want to designate every track up there as FPs thus protecting their rights for the future but ignoring the fact that the hill is very popular with MTBers, not to mention the occasional horse rider and pony and trap type thing.

If MTB access is ever an issue then there are enough MTBers in Swansea to protest successfully, I’d think, but hopefully it will never come to that.

OP, just get off the bike and push it (if/when he complains) – you are perfectly entitled to do that.

I_did_dab – Member

we do it lots, usually after 8pm on a weekday evening, often it’s pouring with rain, dark and cold. Strangely, we don’t have any problem with walkers…

Exactly, it only tends to be a problem during the summer months when the fair-weather walkers dig their boots out. I’ve often wondered how many dogs go without decent walks between autumn an late spring? 🙂

Round these parts (Neath, Swansea, Port Talbot) I’ve found walkers very accommodating.

That will be part of the (very laudable) South Wales attitude to stupid an uptight rules – just ignore them but don’t be an idiot about it. I’ve always loved that part of the world for this.

Most of my local riding is in a very uptight area. It is a ‘nice’ area to live, which puts property prices up and people seem to think that paying a premium to live someone a bit scenic entitles them to some kind of prohibiting of anything that offends their sensibilities. Probably not entirely coincidentally it is an area with a high proportion of UKIP / BNP voters (although more swayed towards UKIP now they have an alternative to the ‘proletarian’ BNP – as they would see it). 95% of my altercations on FPs (both under byelaws and not) have come in this area. It is an area that I would typify as horse-riding, hunting etc.

Compare this with an area at the ‘far end’ of my regular rides. More of an ex-mining, ex-manufacturing, quarrying type area (only 5-6 miles away). Hardly any altercations over that way, more kids on motos in the woods, granted, but basically a lot more accommodating.

We are technically in the wrong whenever we ride on footpaths, but the amount of grief you actually get from people is often much more to do with their hang-ups, petty grievances and general prattishness.

In any case, if it is not covered by a byelaw and they are not the landowner or their appointed agent then they are entitled to an opinion, but can’t do anything about it. So they can be safely ignored, just like all idiots.

No need to wind anyone up unnecessarily unless they really want to go into the nitty gritty, but so long as they know that you know they can’t lift a finger it tends to end there and then.

is the footpath issue bigger down south than up north

I haven’t noticed an issue ‘down south’. I’ve been riding my bike on the footpaths/bridleways/byways of Kent since I was a kid. I don’t think I’ve ever had a cross word from any walkers in all that time.

As others have said, I am extremely polite and happy to give way, if necessary, but the footpaths in Kent aren’t teeming with walkers, which helps.

Never had a problem with walkers. I avoid busy times and paths, and I slow down or stop to give way when necessary. I use a bell, don’t go quicker than I can see to stop, and am annoyingly polite and cheerful.

Once was spoken to by a countryside ranger but being polite and apologetic for not seeing the sign (ahem) kept him happy as well.

That said, I’d join in a nationally organised Kinder style trespass if it helped get the mess that is Englands access laws sorted out.

Once was spoken to by a countryside ranger but being polite and apologetic for not seeing the sign (ahem) kept him happy as well.

🙂

Where abouts in herts legoman? For the first time in 25 years of riding there I was told off either side of one farm (north of knebworth park) by two different people last sunday.

I can make no distinctions between footpaths, bridleways, byways, permissive paths, or well trodden animal tracks? especially when buzzing about on a bike! i just go where i want. that sounds a bit arrogant, but im honestly oblivious. have had a few folk moan at me at times, i just tend to ignore them and plod on in blissful ignorance. whats gonna happen!? (apart from Farmer Palmer!)

The issue is not so much “riding on a footpath”, as riding somewhere without right nor permission.

IMO: On the basis that you are riding discretely and harmlessly, and that it’s easier to apologise than ask permission, do it. If the owner or their representative wants to evict you, or asks you to walk your bike, just do as you’re told.

Anyone else challenges you, completely ignore them.

what buzz-lightyear said +1

http://www.ctc.org.uk/article/campaigns-guide/cycling-on-footpath-trespass

CTC say it might not be illegal. It hasn’t been tested in court…

That said, I do struggle sometimes to understand the motivation for some landowners to get uppity about people being on a bike rather than on foot

Because frankly some landowners would really rather not have anyone on their land – walkers or riders. Its just that they have to grudgingly put up with walkers if there’s a footpath across their land – there’s nothing they can (legally)do about it.
For walkers as well blocked path, diverted paths, angry shouty people etc are sill a major hassle. I was yelled at by a game keeper carrying a large gun because he didn’t want me on the path – which was fairly intimidating when I was only 18

http://www.cheekytrails.co.uk/

Where abouts in herts legoman?

Whipersnapper it was Colney Heath, near St Albans.

Drove past the scene today and noticed that there’s actually an unofficial ‘no bikes’ sign attached to the ‘public footpath’ sign (presumably placed there by the landowner). If the old guy hadn’t been so confrontational about it right from the off I would probably have clocked the sign and taken a different route anyway

Just FYI all a ‘No Cycling’ sign on a footpath means is ‘landowner is intolerant of bikes’. It doesn’t change anything legally.

If you are in doubt I would read the two excellent rights of way articles that someone linked to earlier in the thread.

The other thing is to refer to the rules of cheeky above. An example of the sort of common sense that confounds small minded people so that it would never be adopted(!)

I’m always polite to other trail users, I just seem to attract the hostile walkers.

Just to balance things out the next walker held a gate open for me with a smile.

Just had a pleasant afternoon/evening cycling a portion of the ‘Jurassic Coast’ section of the SW coast path..

The only grief I encountered was on the way to the start of the coast path as we were cycling along a very congenial, wide and popular shared use path that runs the length of Exmouth esplanade..
Four very professional looking wrinkly hikers, in well worn gear and hard earned suntans steadfastly refused to budge an inch as they walked four abreast with defiant stares, completely blocking the way..

‘Tossers’ I thought aloud

Quote above: Just to balance things out the next walker held a gate open for me with a smile.

That’s another key thing to remember. The vast majority (well, majority anyway) of other trail users are not tossers. For every self-appointed amateur member of the uk countryside feldgendarmerie there are probably nine other walkers, horse riders etc who are absolutely fine.

There’s a bridleway through a farm on one of my regular rides. Twice recently I have met the farmer at the start of it. First time we had a bit of a chat about this and that then I asked if I could ride the first bit around the field edge rather than the marked bridleway as it so overgrown. Yes – no problems there. Last time he shouted across for a good fifty meters away asking if I was ok with opening the gate myself(!) Seeing as I’m a wafer under six foot and a ‘healthily built’ 13 stone I can only assume he just wanted to say something to acknowledge my presence and be friendly. He maintains his gates well and doesn’t go out of his way to make life difficult. I fasten all gates exactly as I find them.

It just goes to show that we can all just rub along fine. Quite why people need to validate themselves and their petty little lives by going out of their way to be jumped up twerps always escapes me.

The same is true of most walkers and horse riders I meet. Slow down a bit if necessary, say hello and respect them and it is not unreasonable to expect the same in return. Anyone who ‘kicks off’ from a non-confrontational start is the one with the problem. And unless they are the landowner or the appointed agent they can get bent anyway.

You can always just ride away, unless they have a stick – then push away until they can’t get the stick in your spokes, then ride away.

If anyone challenges me I simply have my valet glower at them. If that fails we have a picnic and a bit of a think.