There is an off road sportive coming up soon, but I’m not signing up as there is a very little chance I’d be able to ride it. Apparently no “on-the-day” entries allowed.

Before I consider it: if it turns out I’ve got time to do it (I’d probably find out a night before), would riding along my fiends (who have already entered) without signing up be very naughty? Obviously I would not use any of the provided facilities. The event takes place on publicly available trails.

Will you be asking for a cup of water?

The event takes place on publicly available trails.

You have your answer. If the trails are public and not closed for the event (this can happen in, say, FC-controlled woodland), then they are fair game for everyone, assuming that…

Obviously I would not use any of the provided facilities.

I don’t have a problem with this if you can’t sign up on the day anyway. Personally, I like to support such events so tend to pay. If nothing else, I like the food stops! But obviously, if you can’t for whatever reason, you are perfectly entitled to use the trails regardless.

Will you be asking for a cup of water?

Haha! It didn’t take long!

You are falling foul of rule 1: Don’t be a dick.

You are falling foul of rule 1: Don’t be a dick.

It could be argued that the organisers are by not allowing sign ups on the day. If he doesn’t use the facilities, I think he’s walking the fine line between doing what he can to be non dickish and getting out  to ride with his mates.

organisers might be limited for some reason by howver they got consent in the first place..

With events like these you are not paying for access. You are paying for the facilities and feed stations. However, you are also paying for the nature of the event. Some one has taken the time to plan a route, advertise it, put things in place to encourage a number of people to get together and do something at the same time.  So by riding on the day you are taking part and in my view should pay. You could take the route and go ride it the following weekend on your own with no other people. I do this a fair bit with sportive routes. I use them as a good basis for riding in areas I don’t know – If visiting family it is rare that coincides with an event.

Your case is a little different. If yo ureally want to do it then go ahead, you want to pay at short notice but can’t.  Give the entry fee to a charity. Mountain rescue, air ambulance or something of your chosing.

Is this off-road? If so, then for the duration of the event these are not public trails. The organiser will be responsible for the health and safety of all, and marshals under instruction to stop anybody without a number board.

Also, don’t be a dickswab applies all the time.

Perhaps if they won’t take our money on the day there’ll be a charity (or even the local rescue team) that you can support in aid of your coincidentally very similar bike ride?

Equally there are plenty of routes planned by other people and given away for free, I’m off to do the Moors one hundred next month, the event was free and the maps are now free.

If I avoided the Chilterns every time there was a sportive or triathlon on I would never he able to ride my road bike!

Ride it, and don’t be a dick about it, that includes taking as much water and food as you need. And if relavent and you feel guilty sticking a fiver in whatever charity box the event supports, if its a commercial event then stuff ’em, they’re as much your local trails as it is their right to charge people an exorbitant amount for a map and a bit of flapjack halfway.

Which ride is it?

Take the gpx of your mates strava and ride it another time with your mates or alone.

Is this off-road? If so, then for the duration of the event these are not public trails. The organiser will be responsible for the health and safety of all, and marshals under instruction to stop anybody without a number board.

Not necessarily I’ve done plenty with no marshals on bridle paths just marked with tape. The paths were still open to all. I probably wouldn’t ride with mates in the circumstances the op described,if it were cheap and I was keen I’d enter it anyway. Depends on cost, nature of the course, who’s organised it etc

End of the day, they’re public trails and no-one can tell you not to ride with your mates.  Whether you should depends entirely on how you feel, how you’d explain yourself if challenged and how you’d feel about giving that explanation.

infrequent opportunity to ride with mates, came up after entries had closed, you’re whacking a bit in the sponsorship pot for the cause.  just riding with them for a bit (guessing you’ll meet them down the trail a bit, away from the main start?

Organisers would have had permission to allow x,000 riders, so as not to swamp the trail and roads for other users, so bumping up the number is a little naughty from the “what if everyone did that?” point of view.

Depends what your mates think too.  I’d be tempted, and just be ultra-nice and helpful all day to everyone just to make sure you’re an overall positive influence on the ride and participants.

BHF LtoB?

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Is this off-road? If so, then for the duration of the event these are not public trails.

Is this true? How does that work?  Are walkers booted off too?

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Don’t think its being a dick at all if these are public trails. I assume the event is being organised for the profit of the organising body? (i.e. not a charity event?) so why should your “right to roam” be compromised to benefit their pocket.

Of course if its a charity event, then “don’t be a dick” fully applies – so make a nice donation.

indeed… i’d yield to race on my local, but wouldnt not ride (i guess i’d avoid taped stuff too.. )

i’ve ridden my local during an event.. i didnt ride the route, but did do a trail that they used (just a climb i think with a station at the top)..and people at the stations were very friendly when i passed through even though i wasn’t in the event..

i didn’t have a cup of water/tea though..

Those publicly available trails belong to someone from FC to private land owners etc. … and the event organiser will doubtless have agreed with.

I’d expect they have for many reasons (including insurance etc.) have made these not publicly available for the duration of the event…

I know a couple of lads who do it a lot.  They’re just taking the p@$$ IMO and this isn’t on.

I assume you’re not in this sort of category and it’s a one off.  if that’s the case and you’re not going to be using the feed stops then don’t worry about it.

There’s a whole lot of assumptions in this thread about land-owners rights etc and much depends on the type of event and the exact route taken. A good example (which was in my mind when I replied) would be the MTB sportives run by Evans Cycles around the country – these are typically run on public bridleways, (one of the reasons why they are specifically defined as not a race!) and those bridleways are most certainly not closed to other users for the duration of the event. You have as much right to be on them as anyone else, including the sportive riders and dog walkers as they are public rights of way.

I mentioned in my reply that other routes (e.g. FC land) may indeed close the trails for the duration of said event which, as the land owner, they are entitled to do and you would not be permitted to ride the route in such a situation.

Another good example would be the three peaks CX – much of this route is on public footpaths and specific permission to ride bikes (well, carry them at least!) is granted by the landowner for this specific race, on this specific day only for those competing in this event. You can’t even practice the route (well, I guess you could always run it with your bike on your shoulder – good practice anyway!) as bikes are not normally permitted on large sections of the route.

So, it depends, but if it’s on a public right of way and no official closure has been made for the event, then you are perfectly entitled to ride on them. Whether you do so or not is down to the conscience of the individual churchgoer…

With events like these you are not paying for access. You are paying for the facilities and feed stations. However, you are also paying for the nature of the event. Some one has taken the time to plan a route, advertise it, put things in place to encourage a number of people to get together and do something at the same time.  So by riding on the day you are taking part and in my view should pay. You could take the route and go ride it the following weekend on your own with no other people. I do this a fair bit with sportive routes. I use them as a good basis for riding in areas I don’t know – If visiting family it is rare that coincides with an event.

Your case is a little different. If yo ureally want to do it then go ahead, you want to pay at short notice but can’t.  Give the entry fee to a charity. Mountain rescue, air ambulance or something of your chosing.

^ this +1

and to add, if you for example had a bad crash during this event, would you expect their support crew, SJA or similar to step in and assist etc. ?

My position would be to pay up front and risk losing the money.

If they allowed entries on the day they wouldn’t know how much stuff to order (t-shirts, water, food etc).These events don’t have enough leeway to over order.

The event probably has an entry fee that covers insurance – for riders and the organisers and ‘staff’. If you have an accident and you are at fault, the event insurance won’t cover you.

Ride (if you must), but be very conscious of everything around you.

As others have said…don’t be a dick.

I’d expect they have for many reasons (including insurance etc.) have made these not publicly available for the duration of the event…

Not if they’re bridleways they can’t unless they get a TRO which is unlikely.

My position would be to pay up front and risk losing the money.

This – on the basis of not being a dick. Unless it’s a commercial event, in which case I wouldn’t want to ride it!

 If so, then for the duration of the event these are not public trails.

Nope. If you want to close a BW for an event you have to apply to do it through the normal channels, which no-one does because it is a ballache and requires all sorts of bureaucracy. If I randomly roll up to a section of BW during a ride which happens to be part of someone’s event, I’ll be riding it, as there’s normally not much alternative!

As above though, if it’s FC land – eg stuff like the Cannock Evans thing next month, they can close it to non-participants if they want.

As far as the OP is concerned, it’s a little bit dubious even if he doesn’t use the feed stations etc. These events also tend to have marshalls opening gates, waymarking, parking facilities etc, so I’d feel like a total freeloader riding the entire route without an entry.

…and I wonder why I stopped organising events.

The event takes place on publicly available trails.

For me, it would depend exactly what this means. If the trails in questions are rights of way then crack on, you’ve as much right to be on them as anyone.

If the access is permissive (so trail centre / forestry commission type stuff) then there’s a risk that you turn up on the day and “sorry, it’s closed for an event” and then if you choose to duck under the tape and sneak on then you may well be in breach of rule 1.

In either case, use of any facilities associated with the event would be poor form.

However, this

 if you for example had a bad crash during this event, would you expect their support crew, SJA or similar to step in and assist etc. ?

strikes me as a bit of pointless whataboutery – I’d expect people to jump in as appropriate – there have been loads of cases where accidents have happened and there happens to be an emergency services team or whatever in the area for something else – of course they’ll step up and assist if appropriate.  I’m talking here about a medical emergency, I wouldn’t expect them to repair your bike for you if you bend something.

This exact issue happened with myself and a mate, an Evans “offroad sportive” a couple of years ago, I signed up and paid in advance, He wasn’t so sure he could do it, but ended up coming along on the day…

The only real issue was the start, while I was kettled into a starting group and given a briefing, he waited 100 yards down the road, I picked him up on the way past and off we rode together…

He was honest at the feed stops and never picked up any cake or energy drink (He could easily have grabbed stuff, there’s no real checking for a sticker on your lid/bike), He did top off a water bottle (with water not Hi-Five) at the last stop I think but that was it…

Ultimately you’re just a private individual riding along some public roads/paths, following a route someone has helpfully signposted. So long as you don’t try and make use of the event infrastructure/facilities (timing and feed stops) you’re doing nothing wrong IMHO… So crack on fella.

strikes me as a bit of pointless whataboutery – I’d expect people to jump in as appropriate – there have been loads of cases where accidents have happened and there happens to be an emergency services team or whatever in the area for something else – of course they’ll step up and assist if appropriate.  I’m talking here about a medical emergency, I wouldn’t expect them to repair your bike for you if you bend something.

I’m not suggesting they should let him bleed out! More along the lines of if the OP is expecting to be supported in the event of an issue he should consider paying up in advance and taking the hit if he doesn’t ride.  Its alright saying that people step in regardless, which they do. But they wouldn’t be there at all to help if it wasn’t for the event in the first place.

As above though, if it’s FC land – eg stuff like the Cannock Evans thing next month, they can close it to non-participants if they want.

Slight digression, but me and the lad are doing this next month and I’d assumed it would be on open trails like all of the previous Evans MTB sportives we’ve done in the past – is this not the case? If it is a closed event, I’ll turn the boy’s “race dial” up a couple of notches for it 🙂

(And, before anyone asks, yes we’re already booked and paid up!)

Edit: Although it might all be moot… :-/

https://news.sky.com/story/wheel-turns-for-evans-cycles-as-struggling-chain-eyes-rescue-11503069

OP – Whats the event? that way we can all stop second guessing the circumstances?

Not sure I’d say “naughty”, more “rude” to impose yourself uninvited on someone else’s event. Like any other sort of gatecrashing. Would you turn up uninvited at someone else’s wedding, or funeral for that matter? OTOH I have used proxies to access UK TV from abroad so who am I to criticise? (Similar issue in that I would happily have paid a reasonable fee for access but it wasn’t permitted.)

OP – Whats the event? that way we can all stop second guessing the circumstances?

And the organiser can come on to tell the op not to be a dick. 🙂

If you’re asking for an opinion here’s my 10p worth.

Considering the fact that you won’t actually know until the night before and they don’t take entries on the day, the ride is all on public roads and BW’s then it wouldn’t bother me personally, if your reasons are totally genuine.

Presume the entry fee covers things like a feed station, mechanical/medical support, sports timing, insurance, marshalling, fund raising etc. However, as a gesture of good will, if the event does give a percentage of the funds to a chosen charity, then making a donation would be nice thing to do.

 Would you turn up uninvited at someone else’s wedding, or funeral for that matter?

Amateur. Everyone knows its the reception & wake that have the free bar.

So long as you don’t try and make use of the event infrastructure/facilities (timing and feed stops) you’re doing nothing wrong IMHO… So crack on fella.

If your happy with everyone else around you thinking your a dick then crack on.

The reception and wake are private events where gatecrashers are trespassing. Anyone has the right to turn up to the wedding itself. Which was the point.

This thread reminds me of sneaking in to see the world cup downhill at Fort William, twice I’ve dropped off my son and pals who queue up to pay whereas I walk up Annoch Mor then Beag fantastic views by the way of Ben Nevis jaggy bits and then saunter down free views of the racing but pretty knackered then don’t mind paying for the expensive takeaway food.

This is sounding a bit ‘have cake and eat it’.

If the organisers have had to ask to open up any otherwise unavailable trails, you are really taking the mick. What happens if you bin it and are seriously injured? Presumably the organisers are only insured if they know who is on their event. As most of the thread seems to suggest that the event is happening on trails that you could just happen to be on at that time, then this point is moot.

As it stands, it doesn’t sound like any organisers or registered participants can have any strict objections, but personally I wouldn’t do it.