Following on from another thread, whats the STW massive opinion on this?

Do hardtails make you an all round better rider than if you were to ride a FS bike.

I certainly think so.

Discuss…

Well I’ve always (pretty much) ridden hardtails, and I’m $h1t.

Make of that what you will.

No. I’m faster on my five but riding the crush at the moment because its the first bike I get to in the shed.

Yes….but not as god like as a rigid single speed 29er.Obviously.

I certainly think so.

What brings you to that conclusion?
Do you have a clone that’s only ridden FS?

I only have a hardtail now and [as above] – I’m shite

no.

Riding a HT simply makes you better at riding stuff you wouldn’t give a second thought on a FS because on the FS you’re thinking bigger, faster etc.

Much like riding a motorbike during winter doesn’t make you a better motorcyclist it simply makes you better at riding more cautiously.

Yes.

Until I buy a full susser, when obviously that will make me an even better rider.

in combination the skills built riding each bike will compliment each other. My line choice improves after riding HT especially.

Define “better”.

Overtime, I’d say yes, but obviously not instantly, i.e. if you get off your full sus and swing your leg over your hardtail you don’t instantly becoming awesome.

I think it can make you a better rider, mainly because you have to learn to either cling on for dear life or learn to pick smoother lines. Either way leads to the path of fastness when you transfer to a FS which will allow you to get away with more!

Although then again..

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hardtail%20pride

No, although to ride the same terrain you have to think a little more. Busting proper moves (for want of a better expression) and picking lines that make you go faster and fall off less make you a better rider.

Having started on a hardtail and now graduated to FS, I genuinely believe the hardtail was a good bike for me to start on as it was less forgiving and taught me better technique. However, I’m now faster on the FS over the same timed courses, and I put this down to better traction with both wheels on the ground, and an ability to just ride thru the rocky stuff.

Just to clarify, I didn’t mean faster, I meant teach you better technique.

Just because you can go faster on a FS by ploughing through everything without any though on line choice or braking zones, doesn’t mean you have better technique.

It makes you a smoother rider for sure.

Whether you end up better is a different thing.

It makes you a smoother rider for sure.

or… it makes you ride round relatively easy stuff like a nancy.

Whatever bike you currently really want and are struggling to justify will, by definition, conveniently, make you a better rider.

If you’ve only ridden FS for a while, chances are you’ve maybe got a bit lazy complacent, and HT may snap you of that (possibly by flinging you mercilessly to the ground, or puncturing when you don’t shift your weight), if only ridden a HT, first time on suss you may well be quite crap and not be able to get the best from it.

Personally I think challenging yourself, and riding different bikes can makes you better (long travel HT, short travel XC ht, 6″ FS etc) as you will never get lazy and rely on the specific strengths of one set up. But I could just as easily be wrong, but it helps justify my three mountain bike stable, so it works for me.

Yes. They also make you ride like a ****ing maniac when you get back on a bouncy bike, which will inevitably dump you in A&E 😳

Technique is the same regardless of ht or fs. Coaching and practice makes you a better rider, arguing about which bike is better makes you a true STWer

It makes you a smoother rider for sure.

My thoughs exactly.

Smoother is better, and will ultimately lead to being faster on any bike.

All people new to the sport must ride a cyclocross bike down the black run of their choice before they are allowed to purchase anything with suspension (even pneumatic suspension).

Would removing the suspension from the back of your car make you a better driver? More likely it would just make the experience uncomfortable and slow.

Personally I think challenging yourself, and riding different bikes can makes you better (long travel HT, short travel XC ht, 6″ FS etc) as you will never get lazy and rely on the specific strengths of one set up. But I could just as easily be wrong, but it helps justify my three mountain bike stable, so it works for me.

Unfortunately this one MTB person thinks you’re probably right! I’m relying on a cheap BMX to make my hardtail feel like a full sus (big wheels and fat squishy tyres don’t half smooth things out).

Just because you can go faster on a FS by ploughing through everything without any though on line choice or braking zones, doesn’t mean you have better technique.

Oddly enough, the faster I go the more thought I give to line choice and braking.

I’m with Mikewsmith – it improves your lines which you should then be able to transfer to your rigid bike

I find that it works both ways – if i ride my FS bike a lot, then when i jump on my rigid bike, i’m fitter (after peddling a 32lb bike around) and i’m quicker on the HT because i’m braver hitting things (forgetting i don’t have 6″ of travel)

It’s a bit of a moot argument though.

In order to ride fast on my HT, I end up taking completely different line choices than I would on my DH bike.

If I was to try and transfer that “technique” of line choice to my riding on the DH bike, I wouldn’t necessarily be picking the most effecient lines for that bike.

So, riding a hardtail well will make you a good rider on a HT, but not necessarily on a full suspension bike.

The reverse is also true when trying to apply a full suss riding style to a HT (although often with more sketchy results!).

I think what people mean whenever this question comes up is “does being able to ride the same section as smoothly/quickly on a HT as someone on a FS bike make you a better rider?”

Even to that question, I don’t think it makes you a better rider, it just means you pick efficient line choices for a HT. You might try the same section on the full suss and totally mince it, therefore you’re back in the crap rider category 🙂

There is a whole load of technique you need to employ on a FS that you dont use on a HT.

Ive ridden both, I didnt find the HT skills helped my FS riding.

Just because its got suspension dosent mean you should ‘plough’ through stuff. You use the suspension to ride lines that are different and not possible on a HT. You use the suspension to gain grip / air / pop etc where a HT couldnt do that.

The are ridden differently and provide different tools for you to use.

Follow a HT rider when your on your FS and watch them, its different, not better.

I recently raced my mate XC, I was on my 32lb 6 inch FS, he was on his light weight racing HT. I had to use technique to keep up on the ride, I was better down hill and on rough flat/climbs, but he left me for dead on the smooth flat/climbs. It made for a really interesting ride as I had to utilise the subtle differences in the bikes to get ahead.

I feel like riding a fs made me a better rider as i had the confidence to try bigger stuff which I’ve subsequently done on the ht. I do notice i get sloppy with line choice and foot positioning on the fs though so i make a point to ride my ht on the same trails at least once a month 🙂

You simply have more motivation / incentive to learn good riding skills on a rigid / HT bike. I don’t think any one bike makes you improve all-round though, as others say, contrast is good.
Not being able to hop a bike, pull off a basic manual or pump the ground effectively means you’re not riding a bike as smooth / fast as you could be, FS or rigid. Maintaining momentum is the general idea and you lose it as well as gain it very quickly with less or no suspension.

Simple answer to the question is yes.

Answer to what you mean by the question is no, because riding any bike will make you a better rider. The more you ride the better you get.

Riding a HT is different to riding an FS that is all.

thedon – Member

Just to clarify, I didn’t mean faster, I meant teach you better technique.

Just because you can go faster on a FS by ploughing through everything without any though on line choice or braking zones, doesn’t mean you have better technique.

It teaches you better technique for riding a hardtail, but it’s faster and more fun to bash through stuff on a fully. Plus you look gnar-core 😀

So wearing a full face helmet should also make you better 🙂

It’s a confidence game. I was shit on a hardtail. I bought a cheap FS and now ride bigger stuff than I would on the HT. However, when I get back on the HT, I ride more stuff than I would have done before getting the FS – because I have more confidence on a bike generally.
I’m still shit though.

dunno, undecided on this. Riding HT makes you look at different lines but not necessarily the ones you would use on FS so how much use that is I dunno. I’d recommend the variety just cause it’s nice to try different stuff. Local rides I’ll ride HT, FS, rigid and SS but if I’m going to the lakes or peaks or wherever on unfamiliar trails I’ll normally take the FSer.

As someone said riding HT will make you faster on HT and vicky versa for FS.

<Edit> also I’ll try new scary (to me) stuff on an FSer then at a later date, once I know it’s doable, will try to perfect my technique on the HT, kinda prove to myself I can actually ride that object not just close my eyes and let the suspension do it all. May not work for everyone but I prefer to use suspension as a margin of error incase I have a bit of a dodgy moment rather than depending on it to get me over the dodgy stuff.

There is a whole load of technique you need to employ on a FS that you dont use on a HT.

I can’t think of any, could you be more specific?

You use the suspension to gain grip / air / pop etc where a HT couldnt do

suspension can help with grip over rough ground, sure. Proper technique makes more difference though. Wrong on the air/pop thing though, watch some BMX if you need proof

Riding HT makes you look at different lines but not necessarily the ones you would use on FS so how much use that is I dunno.

that’s probably ’cause you’re talking shite. looking at different lines makes you look at different lines. sadly something most folk don’t bother doing at all whatever bike they’re on.

It makes you get your bum out of the saddle rather than bobble through sections in your comfy armchair as some do on a full sus bike .And getting your weight and balance right makes you better able to handle slippery or tricky sections although you could equally learn to do that on a full sus bike I guess .
The difference is riding a hard tail forces you to move about and think about what your doing where as you can get away without on a sus bike .I guess you could just ride very slowly and change your riding line on a hard tail and learn nothing mind.

Hmm, I don’t think so.

They are slightly different styles, really. It’s a bit like asking if playing tennis on grass makes you a better clay court player.

You do take different lines on rocky stuff, but that doesn’t mean you ignore line choice on a FS. If it’s rocky you’ll be going faster probably on an FS, and therefore you’ll have different problems. On a HT you’re worrying about how to minimise the pounding and trying to find a smooth spot, but I’ve found that in blasting over the rocks on a FS I am now concerned with how to get round the next corner. It was not an issue at slower speeds but now I am not sure I’m going to make it.

I’m not saying FS is much faster in general, only in certain specific spots where it’s very rocky or rough. I rode HT for years and this is what I found when switching.

All a FS does is smooth out rocks, and there is FAR more to descending than simply handling rocks.

Of course, the above only applies to people who are trying hard to go fast. If you are a middle aged trundler then it doens’t matter much! FS simply results in fewer pinch punctures 🙂