Ridable on a hardtail
I see this phrase banded around a fair bit; it’s a load of nonsense, no? I’ve yet to find anything that couldn’t be ridden on a hardtail if it’s ridable on a full sus. The exception being massive air that would probably break the bike but I doubt there are many on here doing that anyway. I really just do not get it.Posted 5 years agochvckMemberGeForce wrote:
Les Gets 98% brake bumps DH tracks … did try it for 10 minutes once, decided it was about as fun as a very very very unfun thing.
I rode Les Gets on a hardtail too, have to admit that it was a lot more fun on a big bike, the amounts of pain in forearms after each run wasn’t hugely pleasant!Posted 5 years agoahwilesSubscriber
it’s braking* that causes braking bumps, not FS bikes.
bol – Member
^ Rideable and fun to ride are different things.
(*or rather, it’s bad track design that causes braking bumps – some people just want to pootle down a track, if they need to use their brakes a lot to achieve this then the track has been badly designed)Posted 5 years agoworsMember
I rode Les Gets on a hardtail too, have to admit that it was a lot more fun on a big bike, the amounts of pain in forearms after each run wasn’t hugely pleasant!
Why would a full suss eliminate arm pump?
I’m about to change from a blue pig to a orange 5, I hope I don’t live to regret it !!Posted 5 years agoahwilesSubscriber
toys19 – Member
Has the formation of braking bumps been studied then?
I mean its obvious its caused by bicycles and there is a correlation with braking area, but other than that what do we actually know?
there’s quite a few phd’s / papers written on the subject.
most the geeks looking at it call the effect ‘washboarding’ – it affacts gravel roads all over the world (lots of roads affected in NZ), and everyone hates it. i couldn’t find any papers focusing on mountain bikes.
a quick read suggests it’s multi-factoral, and mathematically speaking, not unlike the mechanics of a stone skipping on water.
for a given setup, there is a threshold speed, above which bumps appear, below which they don’t – it’s not a gradual thing.
(ie, if the threshold speed is 20kph, travelling at 19kph won’t make any bumps at all)
i would hypothesise that a bike braking would have a lower threshold speed than a bike not-braking.
(simply because the energy transferred into the ground would be higher if the brakes are on, and it takes energy to move the soil into the waves, but, like i say, this is just my hypothesis)
i ****ing love science.Posted 5 years agounklehomeredSubscriber
Does happen without suspension, but I would put money down that suspension would increase it, especially the growth once slight bumps start.
I dispute the bad track design argument, it could be a factor, but I would argue riders share more of the blame, panic braking especially. But when you get hundreds of riders an hour, then to some extend on certain types of course (which Les Gets is a good example) its inevitable. Very few braking bumps in Les Lindarets [sp?]Posted 5 years ago
I find no difference at all in my speed over the ground/what I can ride, if im riding my full suss over my hardtail.
In certain terrain I’m faster on the full sus, sometimes the HT. The rougher/bigger it is the better the Full Sus is. Riding the HT makes me faster on the full sus thoughPosted 5 years agoska-49Member
I got so bored of my Enduro. Had to go back to a hardtail.
I absolutely love my HT. Everything feels more direct. I ride plenty of DH tracks (Aston hill, Gawton, UKBP, etc). Yes i’m slower and yes I feel like i’ve been run over by the end of the day but I find it so much more fun. I have yet to find something I can’t ride on my HT. If anything, it’s easier to hang over the back of a HT. A long fork on the front and some good use of my arms, legs and it’s all good.Posted 5 years agoJunkyardMember
I find no difference at all in my speed over the ground/what I can ride, if im riding my full suss over my hardtail
and yet we see no hardtails in DH racingPosted 5 years ago
IME everything can be ridden with anything though FS are often more comfortable and a bit faster for rough/rocky stuff.boxelderSubscriber
Braking bumps – same as the washboard surfaces you get on dirt roads?
I thought it must be suspension, as you never used to see them much. Article below suggests that they’re only going to form on surfaces with unconsolidated material of fairly uniform size – i.e. trail surfacing.Posted 5 years ago
Why only where people brake – braking probably starts them forming, but once they start, it’s self perpetuating.
What can be done on a hardtail if you’re nuts:
Here’s some light reading, or skip to the video of the guy riding the lime green hardtail:Posted 5 years agoD0NKSubscriber
If you can comfortably ride it in a FS you can probably ride on HT, FS just gives you a bigger margin for error, can think of several local trail sections that I definitely wanted FS to ride at first but once I got it dialled subsequently ride it on HT. that’s why I normally ride HT on local trails but nearly always FS away.
Don’t ride trail centres much but I do like the stuff at llandegla where you rarely have to brake, all that flow bollocks is good, just pumping the trail for speed and using berms to maintain, fun!Posted 5 years agonickcSubscriber
Braking bumps are shit on any bike, not just a HT.
Objectively, full sussers are faster (everything else considered) as long as the rear suss is tuned correctly, ie making the rear wheel stay on the ground, rather than for comfort. About the only place I think a full suss will really leave a HT is a pedally rough section, where the rear of a HT just bounces all over the place.
Fitness of the rider plays a massive part though.Posted 5 years agoalpinMember
Here’s some light reading, or skip to the video of the guy riding the lime green hardtail:
good article that and one that i agree with.
was also quite funny reading the PB readers responses trying to justify their big bikes and explain how without their big bikes they wouldn’t have the confidence to ride the drops, berms and jumps that (they believe?) they do.
edit: amongst the people i ride with i’m one of the quickest (where’s my trumpet?). i’m also only one of two out of 10 that rides a hardtail. the other hardtail rider says he rides slow because he is on a hardtail, yet he still isn’t the slowest. the guy with a 6″ Trek is.Posted 5 years agoscousebriMember
I only ride HT because thats all i need. I have over the years been to most places that are thought of as good riding destinations in this country , not once have i needed or thought i needed FS. Majority of people out on the trails are over biked , following the pack sort of. As for comfort, this is moutain biking it’s not meant to be comfortable.Posted 5 years agocuriousyellowSubscriber
@alpin the confidence thing may be true for some, but not for me. I’m as much a mincer going downhill on a hardtail than my full sus, uphill, give me the hardtail every time.
Re full sus and hardtail. With the guys I ride with I’m usually fastest uphill, but slowest down. The fat bastard we wait for after the climbs canes all of us on the way down, but I think he would regardless of what he rides.Posted 5 years ago
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