Lifer; how else would he affect an arrest? His only chance is a Citizens Arrest; no way the British authorities are going to allow that, and as for possibly somehow getting the police to arrest the Pope, that's not going to happen anyway.

johnners – Member

let's not forget the great Chris Hitchens is also on board

You really are quite the atheist fanboy, aren't you?

Am I?

Well from reading the story it looks like they'll be trying to obtain a warrant through the courts.

Indeed, from the article:

"The lawyers believe they can ask the Crown Prosecution Service to initiate criminal proceedings against the Pope, launch their own civil action against him or refer his case to the International Criminal Court."

If they can make a decent case to the CPS then he'll be detained. Dawkins doesn't have to run up to him and slap the cuffs on himself.

Lifer – Member
Well from reading the story it looks like they'll be trying to obtain a warrant through the courts.

Are you new here?
Read the story 🙄 FFS
Can't you just see the thread title and fly off on one?

And do you really think that's going to happen? Course it's not, and Dawkins etc know that.

Shameful, that they're using this situation to further their own careers… 🙁

EDIT: If they were actually sincere in wanting to highlight this nasty mess, then there's probably far better ways to do it. Why not go and talk to Catholic groups, other religions, set up a media campaign, organise protests, etc?

He's not going to succeed in this action. He knows that. It's not the point. He's questioning the infallibilty of the church. The state won't do that so I'm thankful that someone is prepared to raise the questions. I can think of no better way to do it than this. It's publicity this issue needs so that we all get to debate it and consider the issues and question the people in power. That's the way we keep them in check. The result of all this publicity, opinion and debate will be a more careful church. My hope is that the risks to young children through abuse by the church will decrease as a result of all this publicity.

Shameful, that they're using this situation to further their own careers…

Shame that no-one in a prominent position can make comment/do things without the cynics assuming (rightly or wrongly) that it's for their own good.

No-one should be above the law.

The precedent was set in this country when Charles 1 was executed. He was the head of the church as well.

So why should a Pope be any different?

He's questioning the infallibilty of the church. The state won't do that so I'm thankful that someone is prepared to raise the questions

Loads of people have done this. Including the Archbishop of Canterbury, as well as many Catholics. The shockwaves from this will take a long time to settle down, if ever. I'm not condoning the actions of the Pope, indeed the Vatican has acted disgracefully over this whole affair.

Have a look at this, and tell me it's not all about publicity and money…

http://richarddawkins.net/

Shame that no-one in a prominent position can make comment/do things without the cynics assuming (rightly or wrongly) that it's for their own good.

Well said.

The politicians should be backing Dawkins on this, but they will try to stay out of it as it is a dangerous vote-loser.

So arguably prominent people are ignoring it to further their careers, which is far more shameful.

Are you new here?
Read the story FFS
Can't you just see the thread title and fly off on one?

Lol that's just what I was going to say – who do these people think they are actually reading the article linked to in the OP?

Talkemada – Member
Have a look at this, and tell me it's not all about publicity and money…

http://richarddawkins.net/

It's how he makes a living and there's obviously a market for it. Don't see the problem?

It's how he makes a living and there's obviously a market for it.

My case resteth, M'Lud.

Have a look at this, and tell me it's not all about publicity and money…

I see, so people with an opinion and a position to make a difference are not allowed to make any money from their opinion, thus removing the platform from which they can speak? Interesting.

Talkemada – Member

It's how he makes a living and there's obviously a market for it.

My case resteth, M'Lud.

What case?

What case?

The case whereby turkey murder disagrees with someone so they are wrong

the great Chris Hitchens

You mean the-one-time-socialist-who-became-a-neocon-apologist Chris Hitchens?

He's questioning the infallibilty of the church

No need, the Catholic church doesn't claim to be infallible. The Pope occasionally claims infallibility, but only rarely and when speaking ex cathedra on doctrinal matters. This whole foul coverup is administrative, not a matter of doctrine.

The case whereby turkey murder disagrees with someone so they are wrong

That's the one!

I may employ Trailmonkey as my PR. He's doing a fantastic job! 😀

you don't need my help

Ah, go on; we could form an 'organisation', have a website and sell tacky merchandise. Maybe a few sell-out global tours, DVDs, commemorative tea-towels, that sort of thing.

Whaddya reckon?

Ah go on go on…

So is there anyone who could raise this case against the pope that you wouldn't blindly accuse of publicity seeking?

Yes, the leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland, perhaps, as surely it's their job to oversee things which affect them. And they wouldn't be doing it for money.

Dawkins and his cronies are using this as the perfect opportunity to attack the Catholic Church at a time when it's been wounded, in order to further their own 'beliefs' and careers. Dawkins whole career is based around attacking religion, and promoting his own views as superior. He revels in the exalted status his electrolytes have placed him. He is not different to any other 'religious leader'.

Yes, the leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland

So if he doesn't step up then no one should?

And surely if he did step up then he would obviously just be doing it to further the amount of power he had in the church?

Dawkins whole career is based around attacking religion,

Not how I see it. He is an Evolutionary Biologist who wrote some excellent popular science books on evolution and Darwinism, who then had to defend his position in public debate, which got him more and more entrenched until he became "Darwin's Rottweiler".

His subsequent promotion of humanism and questioning of religion seems to me to be a pretty fair response.

But all this is irrelevant. He is in a position to rally public support and finance lawyers to look at this. It will probably come to nothing legally, but hopefully it will make the Catholic church (and any other such body) re-evaluate how they deal with claims of abuse etc.

Which is a good thing.

Ok then.

But it won't hurt his next book sales… 😉

But it won't hurt his next book sales…

Bibles already out-sell any other book on the planet I believe… 😆

the leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland, perhaps, as surely it's their job to oversee things which affect them. And they wouldn't be doing it for money.

You really think that the Church in Ireland will raise a case against their spiritually infallible leader annointed by god…and I thought Christians were naive

Also Ireland has nothing to do with it. The fiddler priest in this case was Rev Kiesle of San Francisco who was sentenced to three years of probation for lewd conduct with two young boys in 1978.

The Pope, then Cardinal, recommended "as much paternal care as possible" for Kiesle, and wrote that he shouldn't be defrocked for the "good of the universal Church".

Kiesle went on to re-offend and was sentenced to six years in prison in 2004 after admitting molesting a young girl in 1995.

Dawkins and his cronies are using this as the perfect opportunity to attack the Catholic Church at a time when it's been wounded, in order to further their own 'beliefs' and careers

The Catholic Church has been wounded? Are you on drugs or something? The Catholic Church has been sexually abusing children and then, at the highest levels possible, covering it up!!!

They should be in prison – not in **** church.

You really think that the Church in Ireland will raise a case against their spiritually infallible leader annointed by god…and I thought Christians were naive

No, I don't. but I was asked who I thought should make a stand. Seeing as many abuses have taken place in Ireland, then that would be an appropriate person to make a stand. I accept that this will sadly not happen.

I have no problem with Dawkins making a living; but if religion didn't exist, then he'd have to find something else to rant about. He loves it; he gets the attention he craves, loads of money, and a load of dewey-eyed followers. His views are no more or less valid than anyone else's, and less valid than mine. 😀

he Catholic Church has been sexually abusing children

Wrong. Members of the Catholic Church have been sexually abusing children. The Vatican is guilty of not dealing with this in an appropriate, open and honest manner.

If any organisation has the 'right' to make a stand, then it's the NSPCC, and suchlike. And I'm sure they have, in their own way.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6706473.stm

If anything, Dawkins is perhaps detracting attention away from the good work such organisations are doing.

think dawkins is bright enough to make a living from his wits without religion.
Seriously though what better target was there for the Professor of popular sceince to debunk/attack than regligion? It is seriously without credibiilty or objective eveidence as a theroy of explaining the world yet is believed by the majority of the planet.

He is not different to any other 'religious leader'.

Really?

but if religion didn't exist, then he'd have to find something else to rant about.

Really? He seems to have made a good living "ranting" about lots of other interesting stuff. I am sure he would not starve. The exalted paedophile however appears to have only "one string to his bow"

from the good work such organisations are doing

Which ones? NSPCC or the church. Its so difficult to keep up!

Yeah, but come on…

That Big Bang thing…

It's bollocks really isn't it?

It's bollocks really isn't it?

You could have something there DD. Surely there must be a more convincing hypothesis?

coffeeking:

Bibles already out-sell any other book on the planet I believe…

Nah, the Koran sells more. Well that or the Davinci Code.

Let's not have another 200+ thread about whether religion is right or wrong eh?

It doesn't matter here because no one is saying child abuse us "right" and no one here is even trying to defend the Pope's position on Kiesle.