resting mid forties,
max had it over 200 today according to my polar.
That was churning up Winnets pass on the road bike in the biggy…

surfer – Member
Will, out of interest how did you test it?

Well to get my resting i just watched TV for 30 mins, so that was hard work. Then to get max on my ride today there is a longish hill which you can sprint up. So i went up it 3 times, and 190 was the max i got. According to my HR monitor IIRC my max is about 197.

Haven’t a clue what my resting heart rate, nor does it matter to me one jot.

Thanks for sharing.

S’ok, I thought it was a well thought out and erudite piece of posting that was as insightful as it was brief. I feel like I’ve really moved the thread on.

😉

i am paid a considerable amount of money by a number of individuals and large sports-related organizations to provide a commentary on subjects similar to those you’ve posted. you can’t afford my reply.

LOL! I’m charged out at rates of up to £1500 a day and still give out free security and IT advice on here and other forums, get off your horse, especially if you start disputing other peoples input.

For the original OP:
Just took my resting heart rate and it’s 45, but obviously that’s not proper resting and probably only means anything for me to compare to myself.

*looks around, no horse in sight*

when consulting i’m paid more per day than you 🙂

and i’ll hand out whatever advice i consider appropriate, thank you. which is none. well, nothing specific to an individual. but i’m happy to point out when someone is being a ninny.

if you want to discuss hrm’s or hrm training in a general sense, go ahead. i will contribute, and at a far more useful and progressive level that you because i know heaps more than you on this subject. i would, however, happily defer to you on matters relating to IT.

it’s that horse again. yunno, horses for courses?

My point was I could spend my time cutting down people who provide dubious or incorrect amateur IT advice on here and then refuse to explain my reasoning based on that fact that they couldn’t afford my reply but I coose to be either helpful or just not contribute at all.

It appears to be a particularly pompous and superior one you are astride currently.

You maybe in the pay of a company such as Polar with a vested interest, hence your dismissal of my dismissal of the use of HRM to improve performance.

I gave concrete examples of my experience of having the good fortune (through my very limited ability and being in the right place at the right time) to train with some superb international class athletes.
The use of HRM in their training was either limited or non existent. These were commited athletes who left no stone unturned in their pursuit of improvement. HR training was advanced and athletes such as Gordon Pirie used it to some(?) effect decades earlier. Some of the athletes I trained with set times in the 80’s and 90’s that still rank highly today. Why did the experience of Pirie not inspire them to incorporate and embrace HR training as they did interval training?

I rub shoulders much less these days with good athletes however given the performance claims of HRM manufacturers and evangelists such as yourself why do I not see a HRM on the wrist of every athlete at any level? Quite simply because it only provides maginal benefits to already highly trained athletes and many feel that is dubious.

Your response was to patronise me by saying I wouldnt have heard of the athletes you are advising in Vietnam.
Youve contributed nothing tangible so far other than to infer you are smarter than everybody else and tell us all how well qualified you are.

Sorry Ro – I’m with Samuri on this one (although he used his sword to cut me down on a different thread the other day Grrr! 😉 )

From what I can see Silverside asked for some quick tips / links to help him out and you respond by saying “I’m too big for that as I’m a professional and can earn lots of money doing what you ask”!! In fact for all your supposed experience and knowledge from what I can see you’ve added nothing to this thread which is a great shame.

How many of us on here are professionals in there relevant fields. I’ve provided advice a number of times on this forum on my specialist subject and never once considered charging for it or holding back because I could make money by doing so!!! If anything by showing your knowledge you may actually get more referrals – bet you hadn’t considered that!

If you don’t want to provide an answer to a direct request be slightly more graceful about it in future it’ll win you more support from fellow STW’ers.

On the plus side you gave me a fine example of being an ass which I will use to explain to my 4 yr old how not to behave unless she wants to have no friends.

Have a nice day!! 😉

*looks around, no horse in sight*

when consulting i’m paid more per day than you [:-)]

and i’ll hand out whatever advice i consider appropriate, thank you. which is none. well, nothing specific to an individual. but i’m happy to point out when someone is being a ninny.

if you want to discuss hrm’s or hrm training in a general sense, go ahead. i will contribute, and at a far more useful and progressive level that you because i know heaps more than you on this subject. i would, however, happily defer to you on matters relating to IT.

it’s that horse again. yunno, horses for co

Wow ro, you must be so knowledgable and rich. I bet you’re fast as hell too. I’m WILDLY jealous! The only thing that puzzles me is, why you are bothering to grace us with your presence at all?

If you don’t want to provide an answer to a direct request be slightly more graceful about it in future it’ll win you more support from fellow STW’ers.

this may come as a horrid shock to you, but winning friends and influencing people has never been very high on my list of priorities. people appreciate advice from people who know stuff which works. which is why i’m well paid. if my advice was cr*p, i’d be poor and unloved 🙂

it’s not a question of holding back on advice. general advice on training using a hrm is available all over the ‘net. why should i precis it for you? go learn for yourself, it sinks in better that way 🙂

as regards specific advice; it isn’t any use unless i have heaps of data on you, and that takes time to collect and analyze – my time – and for that i expect to be paid. simple really.

You maybe in the pay of a company such as Polar

maybe, maybe not. it doesn’t matter. companies don’t buy my loyalty, products which work do.

you’ve got to remember my background is medical. the ‘do no harm’ thing. and using hrm’s is one of the simplest ways i can guarantee that i’m not killing someone.

the appropriate use of hrm’s is a subject we could discuss for days. frankly, i don’t care to. if you don’t want to use the things or think they’re the invention of the devil, walk on by. if an athlete wants to use them, i’m happy to talk them through the most appropriate use for them based on their current conditioning and future goals.

if you have specific general questions (huh!?!) on the use of hrm’s that you can’t find the answers to on the net, ask away.

but if you really want to get into the subject of training there are so many other aspects you could explore. i mean, really, really interesting topics. like evolutionary medicine and the influence it MAY have on our understanding of exercise physiology. like the work of crazy people like Arthur DeVany (who is probably a certifiable lunatic but who still raises issues i find hard to explain) etc, etc.

On the plus side you gave me a fine example of being an ass which I will use to explain to my 4 yr old how not to behave unless she wants to have no friends.

four-year-old don’t need friends as much as they need guidance on the fun of learning and being allowed to make mistakes along the way. i think i’d rather you use me as an example of that…

Wow ro, you must be so knowledgable and rich.

i am pretty smart. i’m not very rich though. i have a girlfriend with expensive tastes.

I bet you’re fast as hell too.

i was in my youth. sadly, that was a long time ago…

I’m WILDLY jealous!

control yourself. you haven’t seen a picture of my girlfriend yet 🙂

The only thing that puzzles me is, why you are bothering to grace us with your presence at all?

i like you. you’re soft and cuddly.

you’ve got to remember my background is medical. the ‘do no harm’ thing. and using hrm’s is one of the simplest ways i can guarantee that i’m not killing someone.

I thought you were in the field of improving athletic performance? Are you saying now that you use HRM to stop people over exerting themselves who may come to harm if they do? Are these athletes?

you seem to be avoiding my considered arguments and questions, something you rudely criticised a moderator for doing only recently!

I did ask 2 specific questions.

Why did the experience of Pirie not inspire them to incorporate and embrace HR training as they did interval training?

why do I not see a HRM on the wrist of every athlete at any level?

given basic models are available for less than £25. I would go further and ask why do athletes purchase expensive GPS devices (and they do in big numbers) the answer being the speed and distance you train at is by far a greater indicator of training effect and benefit than monitoring your HR.

I thought you were in the field of improving athletic performance? Are you saying now that you use HRM to stop people over exerting themselves who may come to harm if they do? Are these athletes?

to ease your pain, i work with a variety of groups, from complete beginners to… well… people who are responsible for national team performance. now stop asking for specifics. if i were at liberty to shout them from the rooftops i would. i’m not.

Why did the experience of Pirie not inspire them to incorporate and embrace HR training as they did interval training?

i have NO IDEA. how can i speak for a generation of athletes, most of whom i’ve never met? people do weird stuff. some train scientifically, some by the phases of the moon. both can be successful.

i think what i’m trying to say is that for most people hrm’s offer a frame of reference around which you can base an athletic conditioning programme. and they offer a measure against which they can assess their progress. you don’t NEED them, they simply make your life easier and your training more time-effective.

why do I not see a HRM on the wrist of every athlete at any level?

because people can make choices, that’s why. there are no rules. they’re not mandatory. people can climb mountains the hard or easy way.

actually – and don’t get me started on this – education is a HUGE issue. very few people bother to understand how their body works – the processes involved in athletic conditioning. if you do, you start to appreciate how feedback of any sort on physiological parameters is vital to the process of improvement. hell, i wish we had tiny monitors which fed back a dozen parameters on an individuals physical state.

I would go further and ask why do athletes purchase expensive GPS devices (and they do in big numbers)

i disagree with your conclusion. i think it’s the willy-waving thing – ‘hey guys, i just did 5.438 klms at 3.264 mins/klm’. like, who cares? if it’s not part of a structured programme, does it matter?

having said that, they are fun 🙂 and i guess that’s the best reason for buying. only about 5% of athletes care about ultimate performance, the rest of us are just making up the numbers.

the speed and distance you train at is by far a greater indicator of training effect and benefit than monitoring your HR

*sigh*

if you were within reach i’d spank your bottom for being so silly.

damn! i really thought i’d get something from reading this post, it seems all i’ll be doing is chucking myself of a very high building.

It seems the old stw is finally back……why do some of us take life so seriously???

sigh…….[walks off into the sunset]

You are absolutely wrong.

People do make decisions and lots miss opportunites to improve by ignoring tested principles, such as “fartlek” training advocated and used to great effect by Nurmi in the 20’s. Interval training used extensively by almost every distance athlete since the 50’s as well as accepted benefits gained through long slow distance training and forms of resistance training.

These areas form the backbone and structure to every training plan for any athlete worth his salt. You are wrong to say only 5% care about ultimate performance. For me a Vets medal in a national distance race may be my dream, for somebody else a national medal in the open catergory or a top 10 in a local XC race. they are all looking to improve within the parameters of their own ability. Nobody would expect to achieve this without a fair mix of the above items within their training plan.

What possible logic would force them to ignore HR training if it could be incorporated to give even the smallest of marginal benefits at a miniscule financial cost??

It even provides them with an excuse to train easier! Every athlete i know who has dabbled with HR training (and I am one) has been suprised by the fact that they are advised (by the device) to slow down! They are told they have been training too hard! Improved performance comes through hard work, Athletes dont get faster by doing less. yes recovery is a key component but at some point distance runners have to run until their eyeballs pop and HR training doesnt offer this, commited athletes dont need to be told when to run harder ony to run slower, this is one area where HR training makes a contribution. Most athletes know this already. I’m not interested in running “easy” and injury free but not making progress. I would settle for treading the fine line between overwork and injury with occasional success thanks! As they say “winning isnt everything but losing is F*** all!

i disagree with your conclusion. i think it’s the willy-waving thing – ‘hey guys, i just did 5.438 klms at 3.264 mins/klm’. like, who cares? if it’s not part of a structured programme, does it matter?

Speed over distance doesnt matter for distance runners, are you sure you are in the correct career? its the only think that matters. Training effect is specific, to run fast you need to both run and do it fast in training, also do lots of it. The relationship to success and high mileage is clear. It has a high dropout rate but who is interested in the many who fall by the wayside. the fact that some get their is proof it works. they wouldnt get their otherwise. Even Coe ran around 70 miles per week and Ovett often over 100. Both used HR within their training by the way because they had covered every possible area in their training and they welcomed anything that could possibly give them an edge.

if you were within reach i’d spank your bottom for being so silly.

Vietnam? Your not staying at Gary Glitters place are you?

every now and then, a new uber-tit appears on this forum.
Rejoice!

Ro – Silverside said

ro, can you provide some links please? (I am about to google “noakes”).

You’ve just said…

it’s not a question of holding back on advice. general advice on training using a hrm is available all over the ‘net. why should i precis it for you? go learn for yourself, it sinks in better that way

Surely Silverside was after being pointed in the right direction rather than you giving him direct and specific advice and being told he couldn’t afford you – but I have to ask how do you know that he can’t afford you? Have you priced yourself out of the market??? No wonder you say

i’m not very rich though

as I am guessing no one can afford you and you don’t get much business

If you don’t want to be part of a productive community – i.e. this forum then why post on it??

terrahawk, there seems to be more than one on this thread!

I think Ro is just Trolling and is actually a 16 yr old off school ill and bored. 😉

Ho Hum 🙄

surfer, you raise some interesting points, then you lecture me about training techniques that are from the 80’s and 90′. surfer, life has moved on. you should too.

the ‘alf tupper, tough of the track’ training mentality you espouse is a comedic anachronism; a british roadrunning club mentality born of too much time reading ‘running’ magazine and not enough time researching human physiology.

i’m wasting my time talking with you, and i don’t like wasting my time. cheerio.

every now and then, a new uber-tit appears on this forum.
Rejoice!

*blinks*

moi?

uber tit?

is that like a super-mammary?

cool 🙂

Have you priced yourself out of the market???

i hope not, ‘cos my contract’s up in three months.

If you don’t want to be part of a productive community – i.e. this forum then why post on it??

hello? i tell you to go discover stuff about evolutionary medicine and its application to athletic training and you tell me i’ve not been part of a ‘productive community’? hell, i wish someone had pointed me in that direction a couple of years ago, i could have saved myself a deal of effort.

i don’t expect people to do my thinking for me, and i’m not doing yours for you.

i’m here to converse, not educate. and maybe to make you giggle. just a little 🙂

I love the way someone posts something that, in other users opinions, makes them seem to be a complete nob, then they get loads of responses pointing this out, shortly followed by them trying to justify themselves, then they end up changing their tune slightly once they see they are being shunned by the very group of people who they were trying to impress.

Do psychologists study forum behaviour ?

Do they post trolls themselves just for experimentation reasons ?

Anyway, its all good fun, please continue………..

Ho Hum… you just don’t get it do you and that I think is the whole point of this – you just haven’t listened / read the posts you have answered have you…

The issue is you raise points of interest, get asked to perhaps give some keywords or links to text / documents so we can hunt this out and can read in our own time. Rather than giving us one or two links / keywords you go on about how important you are and how you don’t have time to do it and then spend ages giving people grief on their ideas without any back up or proof of this new world you speak so highly about…

I am not asking for anything personally as I am happy with the knowledge I have or the methods I use to gain extra knowledge. I suppose I am bored and you are amusing me for a few minutes. 😈

OK me next.

surfer, you raise some interesting points, then you lecture me about training techniques that are from the 80’s and 90′. surfer, life has moved on. you should too.

Isnt that the point I made earlier, times havent moved on. Over recent years we havent thrown up a homegrown athlete in the UK that can claim to have improved on the times ran during the 80’s by his peers. If thats progression then give me Alf tupper anyday! My experience of running during the 80’s was that people spent more time training, hence my point about high mileage. If you werent training you were eating or sleeping! I think we shouldnt move on but revisit the successful programs of that era. If you can improve on it go ahead,

The one non African athete of recent years who challended their dominance (Craig Mottram) did so by running over 120 miles per week. His coach Nic Bideau claimed he returned to the methods of a ìgolden ageî quoting Lydiard (old school!)

i’m wasting my time talking with you, and i don’t like wasting my time. cheerio.

Dont give up just because you are wrong, you may yet add value, where do I send the cheque?

Got my quotes mixed up but you get the point!

OK, move away from the keyboard, nothing to see here people.

then they end up changing their tune slightly once they see they are being shunned

i see a remarkable consistency in my position, but then i would; i’m in it. i’m surprised you don’t, but then there’s no accounting for folk.

Isnt that the point I made earlier, times havent moved on

hmmm. true. people still rant against hrm’s…

If thats progression then give me Alf tupper anyday!

so, surfer, what you’re actually pissed (this is a moderator-approved word) about is britian’s position in world class running. sorry, i’m not carrying the can for that one.

I suppose I am bored and you are amusing me for a few minutes

then my work here is complete…

then they end up changing their tune slightly once they see they are being shunned by the very group of people who they were trying to impress.

I’ve not noticed that happening, though I admit people have written so much about a topic I am entirely ignorant about my attention has been flagging 🙁 I’m not sure how shunning works in this context, how can you distinguish it from someone just doing something else ?

they’re shunning me, simon. what can i do? go post on another thread?

btw, why the hell do you know nothing about heart rate training? another luddite?

it’s pissing (totally wrong context, but such fun…) disappointing that educated (and i know they’re educated ‘cos their profiles tell me so) individuals have such poor general knowledge. where did they sit in ‘a’ level biology? in the home economics class?

ro – if you are so educated why have you got yourself into a slagging match on an internet forum? Having a barny over ‘nothing’ is not big or clever – you boys and girls should kiss and make up!

actually, i’m sitting here writing promotional copy for a friends project, so i just pop in and out of the forum while i’m thinking about other stuff.

as you’ve probably guessed, writing here is not utilizing too many of my brain cells.

and hell, i’ll kiss anyone or anything. just show me the lips, baby 🙂

ro – now my problem is that I end up getting stuck on the net rather then doning my work – modelling VO2 kinetic response profiles (which I am sure you will know all about), the joys of time delays, time constants and amplitudes!

go on, i’ll bite… what, where and why?

by that i meant what are you doing this for, where are you doing it, and why?

Don’t get hung up on the numbers. How high or low your HR goes is based on genetics. You can LOWER your own resting HR by being fitter, but some people always have lower values than others.

PS have not read the thread 🙂

With hindsight, I am not sure why I posted that? Maybe just to point out that there are other exercise physiologists who frequent this site who could add some value to the ‘discussion’ that was taking place at the start of this post, but the post seems to have gone dead now.

no-one was really interested, labmonkey. it’s one of those subjects upon which everyone has already made up their mind.

i spent about 20 mins yesterday searching medical databases – without success – trying to find definitive studies which supported the ‘resting hr increases with age’ thing. like, of course it would if the study population was obese and slothful. have studies been performed on an active but aging population? i can’t find anything. it seems to be one of those medical certainties no-one really queries.